Is Rock dead?
Old 02-23-2011, 04:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I was listening to Howard Stern this morning and they were talking about a recent Rolling Stones magazine article that was about how Rock music is pretty much a dying genre and that NOT ONE ROCK ALBUM CRACKED THE TOP 25 in 2010, which was the first time that happened since the genre was established. And it's been on the decline this whole decade. It's partly due to big named bands not putting anything out last year, but it seems to be a patern right now. How many Rock radio stations are there (vs pop/hip hop)?

Thoughts?

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Old 02-23-2011, 04:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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lots of great rock music still being made, but that's not what gets you on the top 25. the mtv crowd sways all the numbers. if you want to call that dead, fine, but it really just means that it's no longer pop-radio friendly.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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lots of great rock music still being made, but that's not what gets you on the top 25. the mtv crowd sways all the numbers. if you want to call that dead, fine, but it really just means that it's no longer pop-radio friendly.
I agree. But it just isn't consumed anywhere near as much as it used to be. Mainstream music and mainstream public which is obviously what this is about seems to not be that interested, otherwise it would sell better.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Music is a cyclical business, it'll be back.

And even if it isn't, the "jazz era" ended long ago and we still have great jazz musicians and great jazz music.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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there are enough people pissed off about the state of music that the good shit is bound to make a comeback. people like their club bass and their hooks, and that music serves a purpose given certain environments, but it's not for everyday listening. having said that i'd say the music on the radio is better than it was four or five years ago.

5-8 years ago, lyrical hip-hop was absolutely dead. no underground game either. recently underground hip-hop has been making a surge and it's really only a matter of time before the good shit gets back on the radio.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Rock has been dead for a long time. That's not to say that there hasn't been good stuff, much of which I enjoy, but it's derivative by and large. There's not been any kind of groundbreaking, shockingly new sense to the form, like that which defined what rock meant at it's inception, or how those roots were re-worked in the sixties, or re-packaged with punk in the seventies. And don't say Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Those guys were yearning for authenticity more than they were producing it. Even if you take grunge as something groundbreaking and important, that was quite some time ago now.

What I wonder about is if there is anything that can bear any sense of originality anymore? I think we could see a lot of individuality while never sustaining anything like a movement. There's been nothing but splintering of genres and styles and tastes, and unless there is something akin to what the electrification of instruments was mid-century, it's hard to see how something happens that doesn't resemble something that's already happened.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Rock is no longer a single entity. Music post protools is a far more dispersed, no one is fallowing a single flag ship. Rock is no longer a group of people having single conversation, but many groups having multiple conversations. Whether you want to call it indy, rock, alternative, metal or any other subgenre, its all still rock.

The biggest difference post protools is that bands are creating their own music, producing and releasing it themselves or through smaller labels. Distribution is no longer controlled by record companies. Those companies make more money on songs they own so when promo cash gets dolled out it goes to those artist that the companies own a greater stock in. Rock albums aren't promoted unless your a U2 or an ACDC. People who still get sold rotation on classic rock stations.

Rock is far from dead. Rock albums are still the most produced albums year after year.
They just may not prescribe to your vision of what rock is.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LX View Post
Rock has been dead for a long time. That's not to say that there hasn't been good stuff, much of which I enjoy, but it's derivative by and large. There's not been any kind of groundbreaking, shockingly new sense to the form, like that which defined what rock meant at it's inception, or how those roots were re-worked in the sixties, or re-packaged with punk in the seventies. And don't say Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Those guys were yearning for authenticity more than they were producing it. Even if you take grunge as something groundbreaking and important, that was quite some time ago now.

What I wonder about is if there is anything that can bear any sense of originality anymore? I think we could see a lot of individuality while never sustaining anything like a movement. There's been nothing but splintering of genres and styles and tastes, and unless there is something akin to what the electrification of instruments was mid-century, it's hard to see how something happens that doesn't resemble something that's already happened.
Are you saying the grunge and punk era of the early 90's isn't original or authentic. NOFX, Penny Wise, Pavement, Daniel Johnston,Archers of Loaf, Frank black and the Pixies not to mention Sonic Youth and count less others. That is rock music and although they share theories don't resemble anything from the past. Rock music is constantly morphing, If you can't find new and original rock music your not looking, your letting some one look for you.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My vision of rock is what rock became at the birth of rock and roll. It was revolutionary in a sense, as the world's first youth movement. It was revolutionary in a counter-establishment culture way in the 60's. And it was a means of finding meaning in anger with the punk movement in the 70's. Nothing else has been able to live up to such defining moments. It's just dead and gone in that way. On life support. Nothing's gonna rock my world. You can pour kerosene on it, but there's no new sparks to ignite it.

And again - what I find interesting, is that there's nothing to go beyond hip hop in the progression and combination of forms over the last Century.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Scully View Post
Are you saying the grunge and punk era of the early 90's isn't original or authentic. NOFX, Penny Wise, Pavement, Daniel Johnston,Archers of Loaf, Frank black and the Pixies not to mention Sonic Youth and count less others. That is rock music and although they share theories don't resemble anything from the past. Rock music is constantly morphing, If you can't find new and original rock music your not looking, your letting some one look for you.
Oh believe me - nobody looks for me. I spent the early 90's listening to just about every new release, as I worked at a radio station. I like a lot of that stuff you mentioned. I've seen Sonic Youth countless times. I heard their first release the week it came out. And it did make me sit back and take notice. But it did not at all make the whole world take notice, let alone a small portion. And they were hardly original. They took ideas from the noise bands of 70's manhattan, the love of dissonance they found in Lou Reed's Berlin, and so forth. Daniel Johnson worships Roky Erikson and the Beatles and it's noticeable. The Pixies is littered with surf-rock and Velvet Underground influences, as well as some Pere Ubu love.

There is good stuff, and yes - a degree of originality, but nothing that is going to change things forever. The jump from tin pan alley tunes to ragtime and dixieland, and then from that to swing, and then the huge leap to be bop, and then the eruption of rock and roll over a few decades in various contexts, just isn't matched by Here Comes My Man, and Death Valley '69. The good stuff that followed still rides on the energy created by all those waves, but as authentically original, it doesn't generate any kind of a wave of comparison. It's more like a compelling undertow. So culturally it's basically dead. And since it is a cultural phenomenon, that's pretty important.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
My vision of rock is what rock became at the birth of rock and roll. It was revolutionary in a sense, as the world's first youth movement. It was revolutionary in a counter-establishment culture way in the 60's. And it was a means of finding meaning in anger with the punk movement in the 70's. Nothing else has been able to live up to such defining moments. It's just dead and gone in that way. On life support. Nothing's gonna rock my world. You can pour kerosene on it, but there's no new sparks to ignite it.

And again - what I find interesting, is that there's nothing to go beyond hip hop in the progression and combination of forms over the last Century.
Well sure, so rock is dead for you... doesn't mean its dead.

The world first youth movement....?
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well sure, so rock is dead for you... doesn't mean its dead.

The world first youth movement....?
You know of one that happened previous to that? And you missed my point. It's not dead for me. It's dead as a cultural phenomenon. It was about people coming together and acting out, if not acting on something. Now it's music that is as relevant or not, as any other kind of music. "Hope I die before I get old" once meant something significant. Rock is at least old, which in terms of it's own defining sensibilities, is worse than being dead. I'm happy to think it's just dead.


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Old 02-23-2011, 07:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You know of one that happened previous to that? And you missed my point. It's not dead for me. It's dead as a cultural phenomenon. It was about people coming together and acting out, if not acting on something. Now it's music that is as relevant or not, as any other kind of music.

YouTube - Maddox Bros & Rose - The Death Of Rock And Roll
bohemian and jazz, but I am pretty sure we could go back further. And you missed mine your grading culture on your own life context, when you were actually involved in a culture. People are still coming together over rock music just because the music doesn't carry the same weight for you doesn't mean its critically less important. There will always be masters who fell perfectly into a historical context to create a larger persona or effect.

The beatles would be the first to tell you they appropriated there sound. Everyone appropriates sound whether they want to admit or not. But Originality still exists.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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What does that even mean? Isn't pop synonomous with rock?

Oh and like pretty much everyone has said whatever is top 40 or 25 or whatever means pretty much nothing with respect to real art or musical movements. I basically see it as a measuring stick for what is horrible. Honestly, if 14 year olds go crazy for it, it's got to be terrible.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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bohemian and jazz, but I am pretty sure we could go back further. And you missed mine your grading culture on your own life context, when you were actually involved in a culture. People are still coming together over rock music just because the music doesn't carry the same weight for you doesn't mean its critically less important. There will always be masters who fell perfectly into a historical context to create a larger persona or effect.

The beatles would be the first to tell you they appropriated there sound. Everyone appropriates sound whether they want to admit or not. But Originality still exists.
bohemian and jazz? Yeah that Louis Armstrong was a crazy teenager. By youth movement I meant youth - as in not adult.

My life context doesn't fit with the Beatles or Jerry Lee. And I will be the first to admit that my punk music was original only in it's re-packaging, and in pushing the idea of the importance of image. It was pretty much the last gasps of what rock and roll was. Please don't try to tell me that a bunch of people getting into some great music is anything like entire generations expressing their defiance of the dominant adult culture.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I blame Nickelback.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Rock is dead in the sense that I havent listened to a rock band in years that I have thought, hey, thats new and original! But as a product, with the power of the internet, its doing more than fine.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
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i used to like rock but over the past few years all ive been listening to is hiphop/rap
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Rock isn't dead, some of it is just hiding.


And even all new bands were horrible and there was no talented rock bands ever again - it would still be kept alive by past music.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Apparently, Bon Jovi had the top grossing tour of 2010.

That's more discouraging than rock being dead.
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