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Old 04-15-2013, 01:26 PM   #1041 (permalink)
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fuck me.... thats just horrifying.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:57 PM   #1042 (permalink)
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Yeah, the force feeding violates the Geneva conventions as well.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:57 PM   #1043 (permalink)
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Yeah, I read that op-ed today. I'm glad some outlets still report on what's happening at Gitmo.

The last thing I read was from the Atlantic :

How Guantanamo Bay's Existence Helps Al-Qaeda Recruit More Terrorists - Thérèse Postel - The Atlantic

I remember the President, during his campaign speeches, seeking to shut it down and proceed with due process. Whatever happened to that? (Yes, I know what happened, just asking a rhetorical question).

------

Since I don't want to respond too much to Canadian politics, I will say only one thing, pzabby, I'm a little disappointed in your answers to LX, simply because all I'm reading is the same bullshit rhetoric that's espoused by the political party, instead of some sort of, for lack of a better term, real answer as to why you believe the NDP would destroy the economy, why nuclear power is good ( hilarious ) etc.

Truth be told, I have no problem with individuals choosing a party (Liberal, Conservative, Green, NDP etc.) if they provide true, in-depth reasoning beyond towing the party line. I, myself, refuse my ballot at the federal level for a number of reasons. It's a conscious decision I've made for about 8 years now. I just get severely annoyed when the reasoning is very closely related to what the party says. It's quite representative of brain-washing.

Choose a party, a belief, etc. because you actually believe in it. Understand the 'other' side, and chiefly never demonize the opposition. It's that type of belief, that all hell would break loose, which pollutes the political system today.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #1044 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
Yeah, I read that op-ed today. I'm glad some outlets still report on what's happening at Gitmo.

The last thing I read was from the Atlantic :

How Guantanamo Bay's Existence Helps Al-Qaeda Recruit More Terrorists - Thérèse Postel - The Atlantic

I remember the President, during his campaign speeches, seeking to shut it down and proceed with due process. Whatever happened to that? (Yes, I know what happened, just asking a rhetorical question).

------

Since I don't want to respond too much to Canadian politics, I will say only one thing, pzabby, I'm a little disappointed in your answers to LX, simply because all I'm reading is the same bullshit rhetoric that's espoused by the political party, instead of some sort of, for lack of a better term, real answer as to why you believe the NDP would destroy the economy, why nuclear power is good ( hilarious ) etc.

Truth be told, I have no problem with individuals choosing a party (Liberal, Conservative, Green, NDP etc.) if they provide true, in-depth reasoning beyond towing the party line. I, myself, refuse my ballot at the federal level for a number of reasons. It's a conscious decision I've made for about 8 years now. I just get severely annoyed when the reasoning is very closely related to what the party says. It's quite representative of brain-washing.

Choose a party, a belief, etc. because you actually believe in it. Understand the 'other' side, and chiefly never demonize the opposition. It's that type of belief, that all hell would break loose, which pollutes the political system today.
I would provide more in depth answers but as it's exam time I can't. I will come back to it and provide some more in depth reasoning and facts.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:54 PM   #1045 (permalink)
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Here's a piece suggesting that the Obama admin is using a variety of Gitmo fuckups to make it easier to shut it down.

Gitmo Trial Ethics Breaches Called Possible Obama Plan to Close Prison
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:44 AM   #1047 (permalink)
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I think an NDP govt would be > than a Conservative govt but that isn't that hard.
I think the real issue is the electoral system. Once you fix that you can help other things to improve. One thing I definitely want to see is a form or type of compulsory (mandatory) voting so govts aren't elected with say 39-51 % of those who voted (with what? 59-65% of eligible voters voting). With the electoral system either: try to incorporate some sort of proportional representation so that many people's votes don't become useless; or create a voting system with 2 votes (1st vote has maybe the top 2 or 3 candidates selected and then 2nd vote elects the candidate of the top 2 or 3); or use a sort of list system to show people's preferences. Electoral system changes are what's needed first and foremost. Speaking of which, a buddy of mine noticed the other day and told me that now that since the NDP became opposition, they haven't talked about changes to the electoral system.

Now - for whomever is governing Canada next:

scrap the omnibus crime bill (expensive, idiotic, among many other things), try to create some sort of national housing plan,
truly improve aboriginal relations,
invest in renewable energy,
put tighter regulations (environmentally and economically) on natural resources like those in the oil sands,
nationalize water, do not privatize water and have companies or the US take advantage of the most important resource on earth which Canada has aplenty of,
look to improve Canada's environmental record (it's shameful, also, our Environment Minister was a News Anchor ),
lastly - it's a big task but: create a truly universal health care system-basically no fees for everything and be inclusive of types of therapy and dental care.

Now - yes - that's a lot of things to be done and it may require taxes to be increased. However, you truly do get what you pay for. France for example has high taxes but has a great healthcare system and various worker/labour rights, privileges and benefits. And yes that list was plenty but if some of those things could begin with the next government that'd be best. It would be really hard for a government to achieve all those things in a 4 year term even.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:02 PM   #1048 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
I think an NDP govt would be > than a Conservative govt but that isn't that hard.
I think the real issue is the electoral system. Once you fix that you can help other things to improve. One thing I definitely want to see is a form or type of compulsory (mandatory) voting so govts aren't elected with say 39-51 % of those who voted (with what? 59-65% of eligible voters voting). With the electoral system either: try to incorporate some sort of proportional representation so that many people's votes don't become useless; or create a voting system with 2 votes (1st vote has maybe the top 2 or 3 candidates selected and then 2nd vote elects the candidate of the top 2 or 3); or use a sort of list system to show people's preferences. Electoral system changes are what's needed first and foremost. Speaking of which, a buddy of mine noticed the other day and told me that now that since the NDP became opposition, they haven't talked about changes to the electoral system.

Now - for whomever is governing Canada next:

scrap the omnibus crime bill (expensive, idiotic, among many other things), try to create some sort of national housing plan,
truly improve aboriginal relations,
invest in renewable energy,
put tighter regulations (environmentally and economically) on natural resources like those in the oil sands,
nationalize water, do not privatize water and have companies or the US take advantage of the most important resource on earth which Canada has aplenty of,
look to improve Canada's environmental record (it's shameful, also, our Environment Minister was a News Anchor ),
lastly - it's a big task but: create a truly universal health care system-basically no fees for everything and be inclusive of types of therapy and dental care.

Now - yes - that's a lot of things to be done and it may require taxes to be increased. However, you truly do get what you pay for. France for example has high taxes but has a great healthcare system and various worker/labour rights, privileges and benefits. And yes that list was plenty but if some of those things could begin with the next government that'd be best. It would be really hard for a government to achieve all those things in a 4 year term even.

thats the thing right there. the increased taxes needed to sustain all of those things would lead to unwanted economic reprucussions. the main reason for taxation to put either an expansionary or contractionary fiscal policy which its main goal is to control inflation and maximize the nations GDP through maximizing aggregate demand.

sure it's great to have all the things you just listed, but if we do raise taxes by that much, it will lead to a contraction because people will have less to spend, thus will consume less, reducing aggregate demand, and plunging the economy into a recession that (depending on the extent of the things you pointed out) could be worse than the one we saw in 2008.

its not as simple as 1,2,3
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #1049 (permalink)
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thats the thing right there. the increased taxes needed to sustain all of those things would lead to unwanted economic reprucussions. the main reason for taxation to put either an expansionary or contractionary fiscal policy which its main goal is to control inflation and maximize the nations GDP through maximizing aggregate demand.

sure it's great to have all the things you just listed, but if we do raise taxes by that much, it will lead to a contraction because people will have less to spend, thus will consume less, reducing aggregate demand, and plunging the economy into a recession that (depending on the extent of the things you pointed out) could be worse than the one we saw in 2008.

its not as simple as 1,2,3
Even if just some of those things were to be done that'd be great. Not all of them have to happen. Yes the economy could be affected obviously but if people's quality of life is improved than that should take precedence. If my French was better I'd love to live in France given their policies (ie. healthcare and labour benefits). The materialistic society we live in is truly disgusting. Sacrifices can be made like those that are made in France. Who has the better quality of life? Who has more peace of mind? But, meh. It just seems like we're going to continue the current route.

Also, not all of the things I listed require mass taxation. Scraping the omnibus crime bill is actually is less a burden on taxes. Improving relations with Aboriginals doesn't require mass taxation. Increasing some regulations (environmentally and economically) even by a little bit in stuff like the oil sands isn't really a burden on taxation (although depends how extreme obviously). Having some sort of national housing plan may require a bit but not all that much. + did you know Canada is the only G8 state without one?


Also, you didn't respond at all to the electoral system changes I discussed.

Last edited by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!; 04-16-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:20 PM   #1050 (permalink)
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Even if just some of those things were to be done that'd be great. Not all of them have to happen. Yes the economy could be affected obviously but if people's quality of life is improved than that should take precedence. If my French was better I'd love to live in France given their policies (ie. healthcare and labour benefits). The materialistic society we live in is truly disgusting. Sacrifices can be made like those that are made in France. Who has the better quality of life? Who has more peace of mind? But, meh. It just seems like we're going to continue the current route.

Also, you didn't respond at all to the electoral system changes I discussed.
Ill respond to this post this weekend. I dont have much knowledge about the electoral system but I do have some thoughts. I want to ensure said thoughts arent me speaking out of my ass before I type them on here
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:25 PM   #1051 (permalink)
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why the change of heart pzabs?
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #1052 (permalink)
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why the change of heart pzabs?
cause I was running a few minutes ahead of schedule. and what I posted didnt require extra research as im studying precicely what I posted at the moment
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:36 PM   #1053 (permalink)
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Ill respond to this post this weekend. I dont have much knowledge about the electoral system but I do have some thoughts. I want to ensure said thoughts arent me speaking out of my ass before I type them on here
If that was a slight jab I actually know what I'm talking about.

Anywho, sum up: no mandatory voting in Canada.

2nd- 4 candidates run in a riding - say Trinity-Spadina. The results are in:

Candidate A: 33% of vote
Candidate B: 31% of vote
Candidate C: 28 % of vote
Candidate D: 8% of vote

Candidate A wins. They got the majority of votes. Despite the matter that 67% of voters didn't vote for them. The First Past the Post (FPTP) System is a majoritarian system. But it is in its most basic form. There is no other round of voting or anything of the sort. This also is even further away from proportional representation.

FPTP is ridiculously easy to understand but its flaws are quite astounding.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:29 PM   #1054 (permalink)
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All this discussion about economics and prosperity etc. When did politics, specifically the overall betterment of society, become enveloped by economics?

When we discuss the environment for instance and what needs to be done, the answer that is commonly provided, well it would cost too much.

Well, here's the thing, you're either all in or all out. Very little is accomplished by straddling causes and by providing bandaid solutions. Eventually, the time comes when real answers and real solutions must be offered.

Oh and Let's Go Raptors, you're explanations are only one of the reasons why I simply refuse my ballot instead of spoiling it.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:35 PM   #1055 (permalink)
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All this discussion about economics and prosperity etc. When did politics, specifically the overall betterment of society, become enveloped by economics?

When we discuss the environment for instance and what needs to be done, the answer that is commonly provided, well it would cost too much.

Well, here's the thing, you're either all in or all out. Very little is accomplished by straddling causes and by providing bandaid solutions. Eventually, the time comes when real answers and real solutions must be offered.

Oh and Let's Go Raptors, you're explanations are only one of the reasons why I simply refuse my ballot instead of spoiling it.
Well that's the thing right. To improve quality of life you have to spend. I would hope quality of life takes precedence over everything else but that's not the case in the capitalist/neoliberal system we live in.

Yes, I agree, completely. Either go all the way and actually do something or just you know try to come up with an easy fix or not do anything at all. Also agree with your other sentence - real solutions, etc.

On your last point - yeah, it is a pretty big reason (of many reasons) why ppl don't vote in Canada. Unfortunately
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:52 PM   #1056 (permalink)
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i think you misunderstood me pzabby.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:12 PM   #1057 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
If that was a slight jab I actually know what I'm talking about.

Anywho, sum up: no mandatory voting in Canada.

2nd- 4 candidates run in a riding - say Trinity-Spadina. The results are in:

Candidate A: 33% of vote
Candidate B: 31% of vote
Candidate C: 28 % of vote
Candidate D: 8% of vote

Candidate A wins. They got the majority of votes. Despite the matter that 67% of voters didn't vote for them. The First Past the Post (FPTP) System is a majoritarian system. But it is in its most basic form. There is no other round of voting or anything of the sort. This also is even further away from proportional representation.

FPTP is ridiculously easy to understand but its flaws are quite astounding.
it wasn't a jab. it really was just me saying I don't know enough about it to be able to back up my opinions on it (which could very well change with more knowledge on the matter). for the most part I agree that a change in the electoral system is needed. I won't go further right now
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #1058 (permalink)
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i think you misunderstood me pzabby.
then what did you mean?
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:02 PM   #1059 (permalink)
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it wasn't a jab. it really was just me saying I don't know enough about it to be able to back up my opinions on it (which could very well change with more knowledge on the matter). for the most part I agree that a change in the electoral system is needed. I won't go further right now
That's why I said "if". Ok.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:11 AM   #1060 (permalink)
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i think you misunderstood me pzabby.
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then what did you mean?
v
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I want to ensure said thoughts arent me speaking out of my ass before I type them on here
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why the change of heart pzabs?
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