Books Thread

[Superjudge]

easy there Lars.

[N64]

I would pay for them if I could but my budgets a little tight right now

And for Batman fans:

[XiaominWu]

Originally Posted by Superjudge

easy there Lars.

i think it's a fair question.

[Superjudge]

99% of authors dont make it, because thy suck, not because they were pirated. Steven King is pirated, not starving novelists. But to answer your question, I suppose they make money like the rest of us, with a real job, until they write something good enough for people to buy.

[Ligeia]

Originally Posted by Superjudge

99% of authors dont make it, because thy suck, not because they were pirated. Steven King is pirated, not starving novelists. But to answer your question, I suppose they make money like the rest of us, with a real job, until they write something good enough for people to buy.

So many things wrong with your perspective.

First, if good writers who aren't Stephen King can't make a decent living writing books (fiction or non-fiction), they won't. They'll probably do something else.

Second, the more a writer makes with their first book, the more time and energy they can put into their second (there may also be a motive to make another great book if the financial rewards were significant). Financial freedom leads to creative and intellectual freedom and the whole of history speaks to this point (often either because one threw off the shackles of the common materialist conception of a life well-lived or because one had enough money to never worry about it).

Third, there is an idea that if something is "good enough", people will buy it. I don't think many will buy if it is available for free everywhere else, will they? The fact that someone does or doesn't buy something is not only a judgement on the quality of the particular item that they're buying, but also a judgement on every single piece of the transaction. For example, hundreds of thousands of people download very good music for free, even from financially-strapped indie artists, because it is way, way more convenient. If your complaints were focused on the business model, I might have more sympathy for your view, but they aren't and I don't.

Lastly, I think your whole view is tainted by the fact that you think you do a "real job" while writers or novelists don't. It's a sadly impoverished view of the range of human experience, I think.

[LX]

I heard about this new book by a Craig something or other. Pathetic Rationalizations for Poor Behavior: Hey this Sucks, but I'm Convincing Myself that it Constitutes a Real Job, So Buy It or Go Fuck Yourself.

[Superjudge]

Originally Posted by Ligeia

So many things wrong with your perspective.

First, if good writers who aren't Stephen King can't make a decent living writing books (fiction or non-fiction), they won't. They'll probably do something else.

Second, the more a writer makes with their first book, the more time and energy they can put into their second (there may also be a motive to make another great book if the financial rewards were significant). Financial freedom leads to creative and intellectual freedom and the whole of history speaks to this point (often either because one threw off the shackles of the common materialist conception of a life well-lived or because one had enough money to never worry about it).

Third, there is an idea that if something is "good enough", people will buy it. I don't think many will buy if it is available for free everywhere else, will they? The fact that someone does or doesn't buy something is not only a judgement on the quality of the particular item that they're buying, but also a judgement on every single piece of the transaction. For example, hundreds of thousands of people download very good music for free, even from financially-strapped indie artists, because it is way, way more convenient. If your complaints were focused on the business model, I might have more sympathy for your view, but they aren't and I don't.

Lastly, I think your whole view is tainted by the fact that you think you do a "real job" while writers or novelists don't. It's a sadly impoverished view of the range of human experience, I think.

I have a close friend, he wrote a book, it was good so he was named Canada's next best author or whatever that award is. He proceeded to tour the country, non-stop to sell his book. Non-stop. Times haven't changed as much as people think. Studies show that people that might DL a file likely do it it because they can, not because they want to, and that as high as 80% of those people wouldn't have bought the book, DVD, or song to start with.

Another set of studies that exist try to prove that online piracy is actually a very good tool for marketing and brand awareness for people in Indy bands or starting out as authors as they can attain free advertising and deeper market penetration that they simply could not do on their own, or through a publishing company that doesn't give a shit about them. Savvy businessmen actually make use of this, and many software companies couldn't exist in the piranha like business category they are in. The motion Picture industry, although they complain outwardly all the time, has been doing this blatantly for quite a few years now, "leaking" every single award nominated movie as a "screener" in order to hype them up and introduce them to a whole new audience that wouldn't have otherwise bothered to go see them.

Perhaps this for you guys only will ever come down to a moral debate about right and wrong. That's fine, I respect it because as any guy producing a product for sale, its a bitch to have that products value diminished. But many people have moved past that, long ago (hence the Lars comment, that was kinda my point). In today's internet driven world you have to approach any endeavour with an intelligent and realistic business plan, and if you are selling books, or dvd's or music digitally, you have to not only factor in piracy, you must create a plan to make it work in your advantage. Crying about right or wrong is over, there is only "what is". Some will follow this advice, or have and have made it work, some will not/ have not, and will continue to blame the online living room down loaders for their lack of success.

Anyhow. That's my take, and I think its a realistic one. I'm not much for getting too philosophical on things like this because if you do that too long you will get run over by a lawnmower. So really, there isn't anything wrong with my perspective, and perhaps making such a character judgement on one statement about what a guy should do if he can't make it as a writer in today's digital climate is a bit shortsighted. Perhaps I could have written more too though, apologies Ligea, I know I was vague.

[pzabby]

can anyone recommend any books that deal with the psycological aspects of the human mind, ala 1984 or such?

[Superjudge]

Lord of the Flies

many crazy levels there

[LX]

Originally Posted by pzabby

can anyone recommend any books that deal with the psycological aspects of the human mind, ala 1984 or such?

I'm not sure what psychological aspects of the human mind pertains to. What other aspects are there. Physiological? And 1984 is about the political uses of limiting the proper functioning of the human mind. I'm not sure there was a great deal of digging around with psychology. If you're looking at the way the mind comes up against external pressures and barriers at large, what comes to mind is Kafka, Dostoevsky's Notes fom the Underground, Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Camus' the Plague and maybe some of Coetzee's stuff.

Oh - and The Glass Bead Game by Herman Hesse might work for you.

[pzabby]

Originally Posted by Superjudge

Lord of the Flies

many crazy levels there

Great book though read it

[pzabby]

Originally Posted by LX

I'm not sure what psychological aspects of the human mind pertains to. What other aspects are there. Physiological? And 1984 is about the political uses of limiting the proper functioning of the human mind. I'm not sure there was a great deal of digging around with psychology. If you're looking at the way the mind comes up against external pressures and barriers at large, what comes to mind is Kafka, Dostoevsky's Notes fom the Underground, Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Camus' the Plague and maybe some of Coetzee's stuff.

Oh - and The Glass Bead Game by Herman Hesse might work for you.

1984 dug around the minds needs to remain satisfied with life. I could go on for hours about that but it would be way too long of a post.

Thanks for the suggestions

[LX]

Originally Posted by pzabby

1984 dug around the minds needs to remain satisfied with life. I could go on for hours about that but it would be way too long of a post.

Thanks for the suggestions

Ah yeah - true enough, but I think that becomes apparent more from the external pressures bearing down on the internal workings of the mind, as opposed to a lot of psychological novels which could be covered broadly with regards to all the struggles going on mostly internally. In any case I think I pinned down what I thought you were interested in pretty well.

[pzabby]

Originally Posted by LX

Ah yeah - true enough, but I think that becomes apparent more from the external pressures bearing down on the internal workings of the mind, as opposed to a lot of psychological novels which could be covered broadly with regards to all the struggles going on mostly internally. In any case I think I pinned down what I thought you were interested in pretty well.

Yes you did. First with the englisg movies now this. thanks

[Superjudge]

Originally Posted by pzabby

Great book though read it

Glad you liked it.

I tend to like things like that, it basically starts from the beginning, it makes things simple in my own mind, and it helps to really simplify a lot of the issues that a great deal of other Human categorized themes deal with...

thats just me though. If its just about the story.... still good.

[LKeet6]

hi all,

just wanted to recommend an outstanding book. It's called playing days by bejamin markovits.

it's about an american with german heritage who decides to try and make it in european basketball. Describes his life, living in germany as well. The standard of writing is really amazing, almost poetic at times and there's plenty of basketball in it!

here is a youtube clip of a tape he made of himself and sent out to european teams.

Playing Days?The Audition Tape - YouTube

[Chris]

Currently reading Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama. Great so far

[Beans]

For the last couple of months I've been reading the "Game of Thrones" series. Each book is about 1,000 pages. The first two books were really compelling - "winter is coming"! But man, I'm on page 700 of book 4 and it is all about side characters I don't care about. Give me more Bran! More Tyrion! What about the Others!

Frig! I think I'm going to move on. Sometimes I read that George R.R. Martin is a genius or he's the new Tolkien. I wish! Frig!

Unbroken by Laura Hillenbrand is what I'm most curious to read next.

[LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!]

Originally Posted by Superjudge

Lord of the Flies

many crazy levels there

indeed. read that this summer when I was on my bus ride to NYC.

[Shadowfax]

Sue and Amanda were chuckling over this book the other day so i decided to sit down and check it out....great stuff
for any cat lovers/owners, this is a must read