American Education System - Page 2
Old 02-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Tenure is the practice of guaranteeing a teacher their job. Originally, this was a due process guarantee, something intended to work as a check against administrators capriciously firing teachers and replacing them with friends or family members. It was also designed to protect teachers who took political stands the community might disagree with. Tenure was first seen at the university level, where professors would work for years and publish many pieces of inspired academic work before being awarded what amounted to a job for life.

At the elementary and high school level, tenure has evolved from the original understanding of due process to the university-style job for life. In most states, teachers are awarded tenure after only a few years, at which time they become almost impossible to fire. The main function of these laws is to help bad teachers keep their jobs.

The evidence that tenure laws keep bad teachers in schools is overwhelming. In New York State, outside of New York City, only about 17 tenured teachers are terminated annually. New York City’s Chancellor has revealed that in that city, only ten out of 55,000 tenured teachers were terminated in the 2006-2007 school year. In any given year in Florida, scholar Richard Kahlenberg wrote, the involuntary dismissal rate for teachers was an abysmally low 0.05 percent, compared with 7.9 percent in the Florida workforce as a whole. In Dallas, even when unofficial pressures to resign are factored in, only 0.78 percent of tenured teachers are terminated. Out of Tucson, Arizona’s 2,300 tenured teachers, only seven have been fired for classroom behavior in the past five years. Des Moines, Iowa a school district with almost 3,000 teachers, has fired just two for poor performance in five years.

Most teachers absolutely deserve to keep their jobs and some have begun to speak out about the absurdity of teacher tenure, but it’s impossible to pretend that the number of firings actually reflects the number of bad teachers protected by tenure. As long as union leaders possess the legal ability to drag out termination proceedings for months or even years, during which time districts must continue paying teachers, substitute teachers to replace them, and lawyers to arbitrate the proceedings, the situation for students will not improve.
http://teachersunionexposed.com/protecting.cfm

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Old 02-05-2012, 06:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Cut and paste much?

Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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In 2003, one Los Angeles union representative said: ďIf Iím representing them, itís impossible to get them out. Itís impossible. Unless they commit a lewd act.Ē Unfortunately for the students who have to learn from these educators, virtually every teacher who works for the Los Angeles Unified School District receives tenure: In 2009, The Los Angeles Times reported that fewer than two percent of teachers are denied tenure during the two year probationary period after being hired. And once they have tenure, thereís no getting rid of them. Between 1995 and 2005, only 112 Los Angeles tenured teachers faced termination ó eleven per year ó out of 43,000. And thatís in a school district where the graduation rate in 2003 was just 51 percent.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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you are looking at a massive issue from only one facet, and probably among the least important of facets. and you are buying, completely, populist rhetoric. for crying out loud, the only evidence you have shown is from "teachersunionexposed.com" - no bias there at all... ffs dude.

you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:08 AM   #26 (permalink)
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One thing I don't understand about school in America, is why do the cafeteria's have to smell like ass? There's a thing called fans and windows, but we're forced to breath the same air and get sick all the time.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
you are looking at a massive issue from only one facet, and probably among the least important of facets. and you are buying, completely, populist rhetoric. for crying out loud, the only evidence you have shown is from "teachersunionexposed.com" - no bias there at all... ffs dude.

you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Thank you.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Jeff's stance looks legit, people be rippin him without providing any substance to this thread.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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lol
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

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One thing I don't understand about school in America, is why do the cafeteria's have to smell like ass? There's a thing called fans and windows, but we're forced to breath the same air and get sick all the time.
same things in a lot of schools in Canada man, join the club. I know of schools with cafeterias 2 levels in the basement and lemme tell you, even though i don't go to those schools, when i face them at school matches, its a rancid smell, quite like what you said actually
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I would strongly, strongly suggest the documentary Waiting for Superman.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:50 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I would strongly, strongly suggest the documentary Waiting for Superman.
Great Movie
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
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However, 'jobs for life' are not the problem in the education system (US or Canada).

It's a multitude of problems. From lack of funding of the public system, to a lack of resources, to poor parenting and poor students, it's multifaceted. Blaming job security on teacher's is possibly 10th on the list of problems.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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surprised you mentioned that film cg. i have only seen part of it, but as i understand it has huge inaccuracies as generalizations that have been pretty heavily exposed. it also advocates an educational system that is very institutional and top-down. i didn't suspect that this was your style. i'm curious why you put it forward in this conversation.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
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However, 'jobs for life' are not the problem in the education system (US or Canada).

It's a multitude of problems. From lack of funding of the public system, to a lack of resources, to poor parenting and poor students, it's multifaceted. Blaming job security on teacher's is possibly 10th on the list of problems.

I agree that there are many problems, just saying that's one of them. Which was discussed in that movie.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
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surprised you mentioned that film cg. i have only seen part of it, but as i understand it has huge inaccuracies as generalizations that have been pretty heavily exposed. it also advocates an educational system that is very institutional and top-down. i didn't suspect that this was your style. i'm curious why you put it forward in this conversation.
I've read the criticisms of the film and well aware of them. However, I think what it does do is provide an even amount of 'blame' for lack of a better term and at least for me, was a catalyst in researching the arguments. I'm not so much advocating for the film, as I feel it provides a good jumping point from where you can see the debates and respond to the debates as need be. My personal stance, is far different than that provided in the movie, however, as I said before, it got me up to speed on some of the debates. I think that's why I brought in.

Much like I think the Vietnam HD series is excellent in bringing awareness to the horrors of the Vietnam war, but however is a travesty in actually providing a true criticism of what the war was about etc. However, because of it, my wife began perusing my book collection on the Vietnam War.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:03 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I agree that there are many problems, just saying that's one of them. Which was discussed in that movie.
Yeah, you mentioned it was kinda the top one.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I've read the criticisms of the film and well aware of them. However, I think what it does do is provide an even amount of 'blame' for lack of a better term and at least for me, was a catalyst in researching the arguments. I'm not so much advocating for the film, as I feel it provides a good jumping point from where you can see the debates and respond to the debates as need be. My personal stance, is far different than that provided in the movie, however, as I said before, it got me up to speed on some of the debates. I think that's why I brought in.

Much like I think the Vietnam HD series is excellent in bringing awareness to the horrors of the Vietnam war, but however is a travesty in actually providing a true criticism of what the war was about etc. However, because of it, my wife began perusing my book collection on the Vietnam War.
ok that makes a lot of sense. thanks for clarifying.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:12 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Yeah, you mentioned it was kinda the top one.
I overstated it with my first post, but i later said you can argue as to how big an issue it is, but it's an issue. I think it's a bigger issue some here think but whatever.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:14 PM   #40 (permalink)
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For me, personally, the biggest issue I see is just a lack of funding a a true commitment education. None of this decentralized, no teachers, online forums/skype shit. Education needs a human interaction. I've taught before in my life. It's the one profession that you can't do any other way really. You feed off of the students and their reactions.
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