thought

People are quick to pull the sexism card when I say I won't watch the WNBA. The reasoning has nothing to do with sexism but it does have everything to do with gender differences.

Fact is, there is no reason why a woman can't have the same SKILL level as an elite male basketball player. No reason whatsoever. Obviously enough what holds women back, and makes the WNBA a much inferior product to the NBA, is the sheer athletic disadvantage brought on by the lack of testosterone. Naturally men are bigger, faster, stronger, quicker, etc, which results in a much better on-court product.

It's tough to say whether on average the NBA has more skill than the WNBA. Chances are overwhelmingly yes because men have more opportunities and incentives available to them to work harder and commit more time to basketball over the course of their lives. Either way we'll never really know because that massive athletic gap does exist.

ColtsBoy

I tried to watch some womens college basketball is was very boring, never seen the wnba but its proably better then womens college ball

LuckyCharms

The WNBA has gone through contracture so perhaps the talent has gotten better, but the play is definitely inferior; the game's slower and less shots taken. There are some very good players to watch though. If you missed the NY Liberty play yesterday, Cappie Pondexter is an excellent example. She's a very good PG who plays with alot of passion, passes well and has as quick a first step as I've seen (she'd take either Raptors' PG off the dribble).

I agree. Most women players have shorter professional lives and need to play year-round because of the low pay.

Stonezz

WORD

Claudius

I watch it. It's good fundamental basketball. They may not be as flashy as the men's game, but it's a good game nevertheless.

Gurk

xD

I don't consider watching a minute os something actually watching it. If I watched a show for a minute, I would say I haven't watched it. IDK why but I just do xD

Bill Haverchuck

No, I disagree. People write whole books on this shit. I can only touch the tip of iceburg here. If (and I stress if) the success of "black" athletes has anything to do with genetics (again I stress if, because certain research is being avoided), it is because the peoples of the African Diaspora have the most genetic diversity amongst the "races." And I put "races" in quotes because it is such a problematic term and difficult to pin down consistently. Based on what I've read, you've got it backwards. When you isolate certain "black" populations ("nations" in the loose sense of the word), they are amongst the extremes on both ends of a spectrum; height is a perfect example of that. Genetic diversity is the issue, if genetics matters at all, not generalizations about breeding practices. So, any PERCEIVED advantage that "blacks" may have, is a result of probability due to genetic diversity, not something resulting from "breeding" for certain skills.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the "black" athletes who dominate a given sport reside in PARTICULAR geographic locations. Certain "black" populations dominate SPECIFIC sports, while accomplishing almost nothing as a nation in other sports. And the same can be said of other ethnic groups from around the world. There is a HUGELY important geographic component to all of this, which ultimately relates to social, economic and cultural factors as well.

Why are such a disproportionate amount of the great hockey goalies born in the province of Quebec? They must have a eugenics program! What about track? The Carribean women must be fucking men who will pass on good track and field genes! /end sarcasm/

Also, there is evidence that training and "icons" are a huge part of this. Icons draw greater amounts of the "nation" or "race" into a particular sport. More talented youngsters playing a particular sport will equate to the best talent in a given group going towards that sport or a position within a sport, such as goalies in hockey. It's like lottery tickets. If the best athletes from group "A" are pushing for success in a particular area, you will likely, but not necessarily always, see more people from group "A" playing at the highest level of that sport (or position) since they have more of their top talent pursuing it.

Training, of course, will lead to fluctuations and certain groups "emerging" as powers. Brazil accomplishes a lot in Soccer due to the harsh training ground the youngsters play on. That training helped revolutionize soccer (similar to how black musical culture revolutionized basketball decades ago. The Jews were once perceived to be the best at basketball and race was made an issue. Same shit, new era and group). That context, combined with more and more icons to look up to, creates a shit load of good Brazilian soccer players. The same can be said of Dominican baseball players. They train in crazy conditions and much of the best athletes devote their talents to succeeding in Baseball (they see the icons and gravitate to that sport). Anyone from Canada should recognize this phenomema talking place. Imagine if the passion for hockey were re-directed towards another sport? Is there any doubt Canada couldn't kick as at something else, if enough people committed to it?

In terms of the individual, there are always exceptions, of course. But, when we're talking about things at the "group" level, whether it be a "nation" or a "race", geography, culture, and socio-economics play a huge role.

Do I even need to cover how economics adds to all of this?

I have not seen credible evidence that success in sports amongst "races" has to do with genes, unless we're talking about genetic DIVERSITY leading to a greater probablity that a "colour" will have a slight advantage by having more genetic lottery tickets (and we're not talking about anything major, to my knowledge). If anybody has real evidence that "race" matters, let me know; I'd like to look at it.

Ugh. The best female athlete is going to belie all of those years of evolution, assuming you've even got your facts straight (you're generalizing). Furthermore, the most clumsy male is going to be fucking clumsy.

When it comes to physical and mental skills, humans actually have what is called a "mosaic" brain. Again, it is a matter of probability. There are a range of skills that the brain is responsible for, and men and women fall on varying areas of the spectrum for EACH skill or trait. You can talk in probabilities about a greater number of men or women being at one place on the spectrum for a given skill, but you can't generalize about the genders in absolute terms. Most men have better visual-spacial skills and work a fork-lift better than women, but some women will fall on the male dominated end of the spectrum with that skill, and thus operate a fork-lift better than certain men. You see that amongst women who have been exposed to high levels of testosterone while in the womb. Conversly, a male exposed to high levels of esterogen might not be likely to try out for the football team, if you know what I mean.

And since you're talking about the best female athelete, you're essentially talking about a woman who posssess traits more commonly held by males. That female athlete will likey beat a clumsy guy 10 out of 10 times, unless you're talking about a VERY small population. In a big population, that clumsy guy is probably going to be very clumsy compared to the top female.

For example, in my high school, the best female basketball player went on to play university and start. She had some very "male" traits (what's associated with males in terms of probability). Now, she would have been a bench player on the guys team, but she could have FUCKING DESTROYED the most clumsy male in the school. The fact that she could have even made the bench for the guys team puts her well ahead of the clumsy motherfucker. I can think of some dudes who refused to participate in Physical Ed class. She would have ate them alive.

Lots of it is constructed. Like I said, we have "mosaic" brains. There are some definte biological realities, but it's more useful to see them in terms of probabilities than absolute terms. A guy is more likely to be stronger and taller than a woman, but not always. And DEFINITELY NOT when we're talking about the extremes of each case. The tallest woman is waaay taller than the shortest guy. The strongest woman is waaay stronger than the weakest man. And the most athletically gifted woman is a waaay better athlete than the most clumsy male. Try thinking about it in those terms.

krillog

lol. I meant gender norms in the sociological context not in terms of genetics. All that biological stuff confuses me.
If I splice Kobe's DNA into a goat is that goat gonna complete own me the court?

Carlito

I'd rather watch 'Dancing with the Stars' or 'American Idol' ... lol

Carlito

I should add that I used to Coach the girls high school senior team, while I was in grade 13 (when there was one). There was some obvious perks ..

Nites

They don't even air it on TV so how could I even watch it?

leftcoastbballfan

One day I was flicking channels and thought it was the Raptors game but there was 4 black jerseys under the basket boxing out and playing defense and I knew I was wrong.......it was an WNBA game lol I thought it was Bosh but it was a chick with a similar lid.

Superjudge

So,

Myself and Who?

Who is the only other WNBA watching guy on here?

I watch hoops in General, I watched the WNBA playoffs last year. Good Brawl, great times Watching Laimbeer freak out on his Detroit team.

I don't wanna get into a big discussion over this, no point arguing. But I will say this, in my prime, myself, some stiff and three members of the Womens team at Brock beat five of the guys that started for that team during a pick up game. My point, is that there were some pretty great women's player on that floor, and I enjoyed watching thier games just as much as I enjoyed the mens games.

Thats just me I guess, I like basketball, and ANY well played basketball is great to watch if you're a fan of the game and it's execution.

a count of 28-2 on this thread is just plain apalling from a bunch of people who claim to be "basketball fans".

Ps. aside from a couple kids here that actually play decent college ball (you know who you are) not one of you, NONE of you could run with those women. Not even close. But you'd watch your own pick up games, hell you even get into fights during your games as if they matter.

So, tell me, if those games matter, why can't you watch games that are 10 times better???

AR1815

True, but my cousin's 3rd grade rec basketball league can also claim the slogan 'Basketball is basketball.'

I think WNBA basketball is a more pure version, much like NCAA (of either sex). It's not a crack on the players; it's just that generally, they're not freakishly big and athletic like their NBA counterparts are. There is no back-door slip leading to an alley-oop in the WNBA. From what I've seen, there is more teamwork and the players have to execute plays at a higher level to score. Why not focus advertising on that?

To ArmChairGM, I think by 'breeding' one can also include blacks who came over in slavery times. They were chosen for their strength and physical condition. Sure, it has been a long time since slavery has been abolished (in most of the world), but don't you think that their superior 'starting point' could have had an effect that is visible until today?

Barracuda

Agreed. There also seems to be less bullshit.

But yeah... basketball IS basketball. I actually like watching people play at Hoopdome. Just a buncha dudes playing around....

Premiere

It's more of a convenience factor for me.
I simply have no idea when and what channels the WNBA is on.
And I say this with a satellite dish. A wide array of channels and I've never even seen it listed.
I'm not closed to the possibility of watching or even enjoying it. I just feel that it's not available to me, and I'm not going to go scouting for it.

Claudius

SJ you gotta work on your reading comp

I'm the other guy who watches WNBA.

LuckyCharms

WNBA is pretty much limited to online viewing. Like LP, you can watch games on nba.com. Click on WNBA and go to All Access to register. At least these games are free.

fancylad

If you only watched a show for one minute, you shouldn't make any conclusions on it. Surely one minute is not enough time to make a good judgement. I've turned on NBA games that have looked like garbage for over 5 minutes. To say something sucks after not giving it a real chance makes you sound foolish.

TORaptor4Ever

I watched the WBNA in it's first 5 years for one reason and one reason only..... Cynthia Cooper. She played for the HOU Comets and was as close to the "MJ of the league" as anyone's ever got to.

Fantastic player. It was a pleasure to watch her play. No weaknesses in her game.

Since she retired I haven't been as into it but there have been some players who have turned my head.... Lauren Jackson... Tamika Catchings.... Sue Bird.... Ticha Penecheiro.... Yolanda Griffith. All very good players.