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SteveTT 07-24-2013 04:35 AM

Who are the superstars?
 
Hi all, iím just curious to know your opinion about this:

Who are the superstars in our league?

There are 4 categories:

Superstars in the making
Superstars in their prime
Superstars past their prime
Superstars near retirement

Kirby 07-24-2013 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveTT (Post 810608)
Hi all, i’m just curious to know your opinion about this:

Who are the superstars in our league?

There are 4 categories:

Superstars in the making
Superstars in their prime
Superstars past their prime
Superstars near retirement

Superstars in the making: Paul George, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving, DeMarcus Cousins, John Wall, Damian Lillard
Superstars in their prime: LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Marc Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge
Superstars past their prime: Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Zach Randolph, Danny Granger
Superstars near retirement: Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili

I just decided to stop at some point so uhh, that's my opinion and the term "superstar" may be subjective to others.
If I forgot some, feel free to let me know... I guess.

Aamir 07-24-2013 05:00 AM

In the making:

Irving
Anthony Davis
Lillard
Paul George
Love

Possibles: Cousins, Griffin, Leonard, JV, Wall, Rubio, Drummond, Bynum, Curry

In their prime:

LeBron
KD(hasn't even entered prime)
Melo
Rose(hasn't even entered prime)
Paul

Mentions: Howard, Harden, Westbrook, Parker, D-will

Past prime:

Kobe
Wade
Pierce
Nash

Near retirement:

KG
Duncan
Allen
Nowitzki

Aamir 07-24-2013 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby (Post 810609)
Superstars in the making: Paul George, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving, DeMarcus Cousins, John Wall, Damian Lillard
Superstars in their prime: LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Marc Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge
Superstars past their prime: Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Zach Randolph, Danny Granger
Superstars near retirement: Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili

I just decided to stop at some point so uhh, that's my opinion and the term "superstar" may be subjective to others.
If I forgot some, feel free to let me know... I guess.

There's no way M.Gasol and Aldridge are superstars. Also no way Randolph and Granger were.

Nites 07-24-2013 05:42 AM

I'd say that Durant entered his prime last season. 28.1ppg, 7.9rpg, 4.6apg, 1.3bpg, 51% FG, and 91% FT are some insane numbers. I can't see him drastically improving these numbers. It will be a steady flow for the next 4-5 years.

Aamir 07-24-2013 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nites (Post 810614)
I'd say that Durant entered his prime last season. 28.1ppg, 7.9rpg, 4.6apg, 1.3bpg, 51% FG, and 91% FT are some insane numbers. I can't see him drastically improving these numbers. It will be a steady flow for the next 4-5 years.

I usually associate prime with age. He's not even 25. I do agree though, that's hard to top.

ZanTheMan 07-24-2013 06:11 AM

Lol @ JV becoming a superstar. :cookie:
Let's try star first and go from there...

Bill Haverchuck 07-24-2013 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby (Post 810609)
Superstars in the making: Paul George, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving, DeMarcus Cousins, John Wall, Damian Lillard
Superstars in their prime: LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Marc Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge
Superstars past their prime: Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Zach Randolph, Danny Granger
Superstars near retirement: Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili

I just decided to stop at some point so uhh, that's my opinion and the term "superstar" may be subjective to others.
If I forgot some, feel free to let me know... I guess.

I disagree with some of this.

1 - Lillard will not be a superstar. He might even have difficulty making an all-star team more than once or twice. He's a really solid player, but if he's the best on your team, you're gonna have trouble making the playoffs.

Also, it's not clear to me that Irving is a superstar in the making, since his defense is so bad right now. He's a maybe. Definite all-star team candidate, but superster? Not sure about that.

2 - Durant and Harden are already superstars. They have more value than Rondo EASILY. Harden carried a team of role players to the playoffs. That's a superstar.

3 - Rondo is not a super-star. He can be a really good complementary all-star ( a guy who can play at an all-star level in the right circumstances with the right pieces around him), but there is no reason to believe he can take over games without legit threats on his side attracting attention. He's done nothing to suggest he is that type of player. In my opinion, a superstar someone you can conceive of going into god mode with role players at his side and will a team to victory. I can see guys like Lebron, Durant, Harden, Paul, etc.. doing that. Rondo? His teams actually have better records when he is absent. He's a ball-dominant guard without the consistent scoring punch that Paul or Nash (when in his prime) could give when their teams needed quick baskets.

D-Will is a notch below, as well. An all-star, but not a superstar. He doesn't do much without talent. The Net teams that lacked talent didn't put up much of a fight, even when D-Will was healthy.

4 - Aldridge? I disagree. Close... maybe. I mean, you're saying Lillard is a superstar in the making, yet that wasn't even enough help for Aldridge to get to the playoffs. Meanwhile, Harden got there with less and you aren't giving him that same status.

5 - Granger was NEVER a superstar. Definitely not. Randolph wasn't either. He's in the solid all-star category with Aldridge, in my opinion. Same with the Gasol brothers.

6 - If Randolph, Aldridge and Granger are getting mentions, where the hell is Chris Bosh? But, really, Bosh's absence illustrates for me that the others shouldn't be on the list, not the other way around.

7 - Other thoughts:

Kevin Love might be a superstar in the making. He has that potential, even though his defense is lacking. Let's see if they make the playoffs this year.

Tony Parker is better than some of the guards mentioned. He is arguably a superstar of some sort. He was an MVP candidate last year, for several months. His prime was at least as good as Ginobili's.

Bill Haverchuck 07-24-2013 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMughal (Post 810611)
In the making:

Irving
Anthony Davis
Lillard
Paul George
Love

Possibles: Cousins, Griffin, Leonard, JV, Wall, Rubio, Drummond, Bynum, Curry

In their prime:

LeBron
KD(hasn't even entered prime)
Melo
Rose(hasn't even entered prime)
Paul

Mentions: Howard, Harden, Westbrook, Parker, D-will

Past prime:

Kobe
Wade
Pierce
Nash

Near retirement:

KG
Duncan
Allen
Nowitzki

I agree with almost all of this. We're pretty much on the same page.

ZanTheMan 07-24-2013 07:33 AM

I was always under the impression there were no more than 5 to 8 superstars at once in the league. But when I see names like Aldridge, Randolph and Gasol mentioned in the posts above I can't help but think the word "superstar" has devalued quite a bit. Most of those guys are fringe all-stars at best. Is an all-star a superstar these days?

In the early 2000's it used to be pretty simple to me what a superstar was: a worthy successor to MJ. Hall of Fame type stuff. Prime Kobe/Tmac/Vince/Garnett/Iverson, those were superstars.

Granger? Bosh? Not so much. :)

Toby 07-24-2013 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveTT (Post 810608)

Superstars in the making
Superstars in their prime
Superstars past their prime
Superstars near retirement

Damian Lillard
LaMarcus Aldridge
the Nets
the Nets

Aamir 07-24-2013 08:45 AM

Hey Bill, thank you.


Mind telling me why you don't think Lillard will become a superstar or star? Rookie of the year, has A LOT of college seasoning which is impressive and refreshing for once, is fearless towards the bucket from what I see, has a really good 3-point shot which will only get better, can pass and rebound at a decent clip, and it has been said by teammates he already is a leader and it actually feels like he has a veteran presence. There's been some comparisons to Derrick Rose. I like him. You're not the first person who doesn't agree about this.

LKeet6 07-24-2013 10:23 AM

lillard would have to improve his efficiency and IQ A LOT to get that level imo. Obviously he's only a rookie and that could well happen, it won't imo, but it's way too early to be sure. He'd also have to keep improving the other aspects of his game as well.

rondo is a fascinating one to look at. I kind of agree with a lot of what bill said, he can't go into "god mode." he can't carry the team on his back, in terms of scoring. But he can totally carry a team "emotionally," with leadership, toughness, defence, huge plays that change games. I also kind of agree with what Zan said, maybe we're running a bit fast and loose with the term superstar, so probably rondo isn't one.

but i'm a total rondo fanboy, 2nd best PG in the league imo, and quite close to paul imo, I know that might be controversial, but close to 14ppg on 48% shooting isn't shit, AND he's better than paul in some areas. You could totally build your team round him imo, you don't need a superstar to play with him. Solid wings who can shoot 3s, a faried type PF and a C who can score in the post, decent bench, is a team that would go far in the playoffs with rondo imo. Obv I just described a very good team but my point is I guess, he's a franchise player, if short of being a superstar.

ZanTheMan 07-24-2013 10:44 AM

Maybe you could decide if a player is a superstar by the amount of All-Star games he has started. If a player is a lock to start the AS game on a yearly basis, he has reached a certain status: he's on a winning team, he's the leader of that team, he produces incredible stats, he's plays an exciting game, is loved by fans and a true ambassador of the game and the NBA.

There was a timespan in the early 2000's where every year the Western squad was represented by Shaq, TD, KG, Kobe and Kidd (or Payton/Nash). Maybe CWebb or Dirk were in there for a couple of years, but that starting line-up basically stayed the same. Those were superstars without question.

The East has/had a similar thing going on, first with AI//VC/TMac and now with Lebron/Wade/Carmelo.

Maybe you can only be called a superstar after multiple years of success, it's difficult to draw the line...

TORaptor4Ever 07-24-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeet6 (Post 810659)
lillard would have to improve his efficiency and IQ A LOT to get that level imo. Obviously he's only a rookie and that could well happen, it won't imo, but it's way too early to be sure. He'd also have to keep improving the other aspects of his game as well.

rondo is a fascinating one to look at. I kind of agree with a lot of what bill said, he can't go into "god mode." he can't carry the team on his back, in terms of scoring. But he can totally carry a team "emotionally," with leadership, toughness, defence, huge plays that change games. I also kind of agree with what Zan said, maybe we're running a bit fast and loose with the term superstar, so probably rondo isn't one.

but i'm a total rondo fanboy, 2nd best PG in the league imo, and quite close to paul imo, I know that might be controversial, but close to 14ppg on 48% shooting isn't shit, AND he's better than paul in some areas. You could totally build your team round him imo, you don't need a superstar to play with him. Solid wings who can shoot 3s, a faried type PF and a C who can score in the post, decent bench, is a team that would go far in the playoffs with rondo imo. Obv I just described a very good team but my point is I guess, he's a franchise player, if short of being a superstar.

He certainly did when he dropped 44 on the Heat 2 seasons ago in the playoffs. But I'll acknowledge that that isn't the norm. Still... we'll see what he's really capable of this season when he's the undisputed leader of the Celtics.

"God mode" for Rondo = monster assist or triple double games... when he's all over the court wreaking havoc. Give me that any day over a guy like Melo dropping 40 on 30 shots.

LKeet6 07-24-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanTheMan (Post 810666)
Maybe you could decide if a player is a superstar by the amount of All-Star games he has started. If a player is a lock to start the AS game on a yearly basis, he has reached a certain status: he's on a winning team, he's the leader of that team, he produces incredible stats, he's plays an exciting game, is loved by fans and a true ambassador of the game and the NBA.

There was a timespan in the early 2000's where every year the Western squad was represented by Shaq, TD, KG, Kobe and Kidd (or Payton/Nash). Maybe CWebb or Dirk were in there for a couple of years, but that starting line-up basically stayed the same. Those were superstars without question.

The East has/had a similar thing going on, first with AI//VC/TMac and now with Lebron/Wade/Carmelo.

Maybe you can only be called a superstar after multiple years of success, it's difficult to draw the line...

I don't like status or all-star stuff as a measure of a superstar. I don't like rings either. I like "how good are they?" But I guess the term "superstar" does mean status. So melo, yeah, he's a superstar but he's also not a great player! que the onslaught! But, and I know some agree, he's kind of a cancer!?

LKeet6 07-24-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 810667)
He certainly did when he dropped 44 on the Heat 2 seasons ago in the playoffs. But I'll acknowledge that that isn't the norm. Still... we'll see what he's really capable of this season when he's the undisputed leader of the Celtics.

"God mode" for Rondo = monster assist or triple double games... when he's all over the court wreaking havoc. Give me that any day over a guy like Melo dropping 40 on 30 shots.

amen brother.

rondo may struggle next year, the supporting cast is shit! He'll have to force the offence, although he has improved his scoring so it may not be awful, and shit players means less assists as well. His rep may drop, but not with me, I will always think he's a great player.

bjjs 07-24-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeet6 (Post 810659)
lill
rondo is a fascinating one to look at. I kind of agree with a lot of what bill said, he can't go into "god mode." he can't carry the team on his back, in terms of scoring. But he can totally carry a team "emotionally," with leadership, toughness, defence, huge plays that change games. I also kind of agree with what Zan said, maybe we're running a bit fast and loose with the term superstar, so probably rondo isn't one.

but i'm a total rondo fanboy, 2nd best PG in the league imo, and quite close to paul imo, I know that might be controversial, but close to 14ppg on 48% shooting isn't shit, AND he's better than paul in some areas. You could totally build your team round him imo, you don't need a superstar to play with him. Solid wings who can shoot 3s, a faried type PF and a C who can score in the post, decent bench, is a team that would go far in the playoffs with rondo imo. Obv I just described a very good team but my point is I guess, he's a franchise player, if short of being a superstar.

I liked Haverchuck's post but I agree with all this. Rondo might be the greatest floor general in his generation of pgs and can dominate the game in many ways that some scoring pgs can't.

I also think Haver was giving to much credit to Harden. Houston had a solid supporting cast, and imo Kevin McHale did a fantastic job with that team. It was hardly just Harden carrying them on their shoulders.

Harden is right there with Curry - they're the best of the rest but they'll never be good enough to outplay Lebron/Durant/Kobe/Melo.

There are your four superstars. Only 4.

ZanTheMan 07-24-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeet6 (Post 810668)
I don't like status or all-star stuff as a measure of a superstar. I don't like rings either. I like "how good are they?" But I guess the term "superstar" does mean status. So melo, yeah, he's a superstar but he's also not a great player! que the onslaught! But, and I know some agree, he's kind of a cancer!?

So a player can be a superstar yet fail to lead his team to the playoffs?

LKeet6 07-24-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanTheMan (Post 810671)
So a player can be a superstar yet fail to lead his team to the playoffs?

well, it's unlikely to happen coz superstars are usually in good teams, but yeah! An individual in a team game can be as good as they come but if their team is no good the team won't be successful. Did I say team enough there!?

just did a quick look, Bryant didn't lead lakers to playoffs in 04-05, and played 66 reg season games. I'm sure people will come back with some reasons for this, but interesting.


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