Who are the superstars? - Page 5
Old 07-25-2013, 09:09 AM   #81 (permalink)
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career stats per 36
KD 25.1 pts, 1blk, 1.2stl, 3ast, 6.5TRB, FT% .884, 3P% .373, FG% .475
Melo 24.8pts, .5blk, 1.1stl, 3ast, 6.3TRB, FT% .808, 3P% .334, FG% .456

Durant is easily a better player.. and he is only 24!

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:24 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I would ever go as far to say he's the second best player in the league.

Kobe is old and has lost a step.

Durant didn't score as much as Melo did, and Melo is head and shoulders ahead of Durant in terms of defense and rebounding.
Durant is a very solid defensive player now. I consider Melo a better defender at 4 vs. big men, he's just stronger and makes a good use of that strength in the right matchups.
But as far as overall defense, I'll go with Durant.

Rebounding is more debatable. Durant has better raw numbers. Melo is a far better offensive rebounder. Whatever, I guess. No huge advantage either way.

Offensively, Durant is just a freakishly efficient scorer. Which is the big difference. Melo scores near 30 points with good efficiency. Durant scores near 30 points with a historically high efficiency. Durant and LeBron have set a standard this year that's really unfair to everyone else and make everyone look like an Iverson.

To me, clearly, LeBron, Durant and Chris Paul were better this season. Everyone else was up for debate. He's definitely a top 10 player, possibly as high as no.4.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:49 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
Kawhi Leanard isn't close to Melo. That's ludicrous.

Melo has a better winning percentage then Chris Paul. But because of his history and because he's a scorer like Kobe, Jordan and Durant he's an egotistical volume shooter who lights up bad teams and can't do shit in the playoffs.
Yep, let's ignore how shit some of those Hornets teams were. If you're really going to even imply that Carmelo positively affects his team as a whole as much as CP3, lol. Just lol. If you really are even going to bring Jordan into this, lets prove that he's even on the level of those other two. KD and Kobe(in his prime) are both so much more efficient than Melo. If all you look at is how much they score while ignoring how they do it, you need to update your parameters of what's a good scorer and what isn't.

Quote:
Some of you are being basketball snobs. Thinking you know what 'brand' of basketball is the correct 'brand'. Melo's brand has him with a winning season in 8 straight (?) years winning at almost a 60% clip in the regular season. The only player in the NBA who gets the best of Melo is Lebron. And that's even close when they go toe to toe
And that brand has led to him to 2? series wins for his career? Good job, good effort.

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I would even go as far to say he's the second best player in the league

Durant didn't score as much as Melo did, and Melo is head and shoulders ahead of Durant in terms of defense and rebounding.
Again, efficiency matters. Melo on a good year can average maybe 45% FG, whereas KD is coming off a 50/40/90 season.

And you're wrong again on the defense and rebounding. Durant's 100 DRtg is much better than Melo's 108. As stated above, Durant is a much better defensive rebounder, but Melo is much better offensive rebounding.

Melo can settle for top 5.

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Old 07-25-2013, 10:54 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Bulls? Rose: I?m the best player in the NBA - Sportsnet.ca
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:59 AM   #85 (permalink)
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If Derrick Rose can come back and be slightly better then before his injury at the half-way mark of the season - he is in the category with LBJ/Melo/Durant and Kobe if of course Kobe is the same Kobe.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Log - those numbers really support Durant. IMO it's very close between the two but Melo embraces physicality moreso than Durant does at this point and I think that puts him a whisker ahead of Durant.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOG View Post
career stats per 36
KD 25.1 pts, 1blk, 1.2stl, 3ast, 6.5TRB, FT% .884, 3P% .373, FG% .475
Melo 24.8pts, .5blk, 1.1stl, 3ast, 6.3TRB, FT% .808, 3P% .334, FG% .456

Durant is easily a better player.. and he is only 24!
They're almost identical numbers. How is he easily the better player?

Check out their head to head numbers.

Melo is 11-1 against Durant.

Carmelo Anthony vs. Kevin Durant | Basketball-Reference.com
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:35 AM   #88 (permalink)
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They're almost identical numbers. How is he easily the better player?

Check out their head to head numbers.

Melo is 11-1 against Durant.

Carmelo Anthony vs. Kevin Durant | Basketball-Reference.com
Wow, Melo and Durant have only met once since Melo came to NY. Stern, step up.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:36 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
They're almost identical numbers. How is he easily the better player?

Check out their head to head numbers.

Melo is 11-1 against Durant.

Carmelo Anthony vs. Kevin Durant | Basketball-Reference.com
I agree that they are close and Melo has way better head to head numbers, (doesn't necasearely mean it's KD vs Melo though, does it?) but imo it's unfair too compare Durant in his rookie/sophomore years vs Melo in his prime. That's why career numbers is a better indication.(jmo)
lets look in the last season numbers:
last season per 36
KD 26.3pts, 1.2blk, 1.3stl, 4.3ast, 7.4trb, ft% .905, 3P% .416, fg% .510
Melo 27.8pts, 0.5blk, 0.8stl, 2.5ast, 6.7trb, ft% .830, 3P% .379, fg% .449
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:45 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
Log - those numbers really support Durant. IMO it's very close between the two but Melo embraces physicality moreso than Durant does at this point and I think that puts him a whisker ahead of Durant.
I feel like I need to explain my post because it is a very bold statement
Quote:
Durant is easily a better player.. and he is only 24!
I think Durant is a much more efficient scorer while capable of scoring just as much as Melo, Defense is arguable you could make case for either. KD has better numbers, but Melo is stronger and basic stats doesn't always reflect how good of a defender someone is (I guess DanH can help us here)
In my eyes KD is a better player, but that's just my opinion.

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:17 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
Kawhi Leanard isn't close to Melo. That's ludicrous.

Melo has a better winning percentage then Chris Paul. But because of his history and because he's a scorer like Kobe, Jordan and Durant he's an egotistical volume shooter who lights up bad teams and can't do shit in the playoffs.

Chris Paul on the other hand, plays pg and gets to be the creator on pick and rolls, and is thefore a consummate leader and team player with a high bball iq.

Some of you are being basketball snobs. Thinking you know what 'brand' of basketball is the correct 'brand'. Melo's brand has him with a winning season in 8 straight (?) years winning at almost a 60% clip in the regular season. The only player in the NBA who gets the best of Melo is Lebron. And that's even close when they go toe to toe.

I would ever go as far to say he's the second best player in the league.

Kobe is old and has lost a step.

Durant didn't score as much as Melo did, and Melo is head and shoulders ahead of Durant in terms of defense and rebounding.
didn't say leonard was a better player! said i'd rather have him on my team. Melo is a better individual, basketball is a team game. Yes I do have a brand of basketball in my mind that I believe is better than the brand the knicks play, come on man, it's not that controversial an opinion, feel free to disagree tho of course. Everyone has their vision of how the game should be played.

your winning percentages are a strong and valid point but all I can do is repeat, melo is a great individual who is easily good enough to destroy shit teams (and win some reg season games against good teams when he's on fire,) but when it comes to the playoffs, 7 consecutive games against a great team, it doesn't work imo.

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I understand when people say that Melo isn't a superstar IF the definition of superstar is "LeBron, maybe Durant".

But reading some of the arguments, it's like listening to Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless.

Replace Melo with a role player on last year's Knicks, they probably aren't a playoffs team, they have some depth but look at that roster. Without a healthy Amare on the bench, it's comparable to what the Bobcats used to put around Gerald Wallace.

Replace Melo with a role player on the 2009 Nuggets, are they still legit contenders? Billups, Nene and some depth. If that's your team, you aren't winning much in the playoffs. You definitely aren't destroying the CP3-Stojakovic-David West-Tyson Chandler Hornets, like those Nuggets did.

If someone dislikes Melo, that's fine. I somewhat dislike him too. But I wonder if people really believe all of what they are saying, if they try to look at it via brain instead of heart.
I totally believe what i'm saying, and it's based on what me and bjjs have been debating, "brand" of bball. I don't feel like i'm letting my heart rule my head at all, but we all do that sometimes I guess.

melo, was definitely good enough to make nuggets and knicks into winning teams, iso-ball doesn't work in play-offs. Last time I bore everyone by making that point!
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:20 PM   #92 (permalink)
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That argument doesn't even work with Melo, who was one of the best players in the 2009 playoffs.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:16 PM   #93 (permalink)
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New York was unfortunate to have their team identity switching right as the playoffs were about to begin. Is the back-up three guy Novak or Copeland? (Novak/Copeland), Bench guys were taking the roles of starters (Kidd/Prigioni). Injured players were returning to form and just starting to outplay players who were flourishing while they were injured (Shumpert/Smith - who was horrible). And they were still trying to get used to having Amare in the lineup.

There was a whole bunch of shit happening that didn't involve Melo, and blaming him for that is ridiculous. They very easily could have been in the ECF, while Paul and Durant shat the bed on the Western side of the conference.

Nobody ever calls Dirk Nowitzki a selfish egotistical volume shooter - nor do many people question the way he plays the game. But guess what - he plays offense to get himself going. At his best, he's a volume shooter. And to boot, he doesn't always bring the effort in the other aspects of the game. Nonetheless, he was definitely a superstar two years ago and a top 3 player in the league. He was a hero.

Winning and losing just doesn't always tell the story. Don't look at winning and losing, and just look at the basketball being played on the court, the way teams guard Melo and the way he still finds a way to score the basketball. He's a superstar. He's almost always the best player on the court. If Melo won a championship next year with the same fg% and production - is he a superstar? If Lebron gets hurt going into the playoffs it could easily happen. That's all it would take. The difference between Indiana/NYK is miniscule.

It's also a ridiculous comparison saying Leanord is a better team basketball player. You're comparing apples to oranges - they have different responsibilities.

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Old 07-25-2013, 03:52 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Wow, Melo and Durant have only met once since Melo came to NY. Stern, step up.
I'm pretty sure you're kidding about Stern, but in case others are wondering, it's just been the product of bad timing.

East and West teams only play each other twice, for obvious travel reasons. The year Carmelo got traded to the Knicks, New York had already played both games against OKC. Also, Carmelo has had a couple of injuries since coming to the Knicks and they just happened to cross over with a couple of games against the Thunder. Nothing the Commish can do about that stuff. If both stay healthy, they will play twice next year.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:16 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Some of you might find this interesting.

Most efficient offenses in the league last year (points per 100 possessions):

1- OKC
2 - Miami
3 - New York
4 - LA Clippers

Even if you want to look at teams stats, and what Carmelo does in the context of his teams offensive production, he deserves to be in discussions with Lebron, Durant, and Paul. Especially considering what Melo had beside him.

I just want you guys to process that when you talk about him not making teamates better. What do you want from him? You want him to make the team's offense better than OKC and Miami, despite the fact that Lebron and Durant have guys like Wade, Bosh, and Westbrook as sidekicks?

Come on, guys!
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:21 PM   #96 (permalink)
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That argument doesn't even work with Melo, who was one of the best players in the 2009 playoffs.
He was frickin' nuts during that series against the Lakers. I was a bit of fanboy after that playoffs. I don't like him as much now. But that's more because I think he's kinda douchie.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:04 AM   #97 (permalink)
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1. Melo is a complete player. He's above average in every facet of the game. Saying he's just a scorer in nonsense.

2. If Melo isn't the fourth best player in the league. Where would you put him?

If your point is that he is an egotistical volume shooter....ok...maybe he is. He's still probably the 3rd best player in the league.
Melo hasn't been a complete player since he left college.

He's a decent rebounder... I'll give him that.... but his court vision is horrible and his D is avg. at best. He's also a terrible leader IMO.

If we're talking strict 1-on-1 skills I would agree that he's up there with the best.... He has the tools to be every bit as good as Lebron. But again... the IQ just isn't there.

Players I would take over him without hesitation...

- Lebron
- Durant
- CP3
- Love
- Griffin (assuming he'll continue to improve)
- Kobe (based on last year)
- Curry
- Kyrie
- Rondo
- Westbrick (and that's saying something)
- D12 (if 100% healthy)
- Parker

That's just off the top of my head right there.

NYK's success came when guys like Kidd and Felton were able to impose their will on the game and keep the ball moving. Much like what was going on with Linsanity last year THAT's when the Knicks were at their best.

Give J.R. 22 shots/gm and he avgs almost 30 too.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:54 PM   #98 (permalink)
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How is Melo the 3rd best player in the NBA? When healthy, I dont think theres any debate that CP3/Rose/Howard are better than he is. The guys he's in the same range with are: Kobe, Curry, Harden, Parker. And then you have guys like Westbrook, Rondo, Williams, Irving and Wade who some may debate as well.

Melo still hasn't changed his game to fully incorporate his teammates and get them going to make his own team better. He still holds the ball too long. He still makes his teams offence easy to defend because he needs to isolate way too often to get himself going, and when he doesnt get going because good defences are able to load up on him due to the Knicks stupid stagnant offence, the whole team struggles offensively and plays with less energy defensively.

Yes, hes an awesome scorer, and a very good rebounder, but he's still too selfish to take his team to the next level, and his defence is still suspect. Personally I'd take the likes of Kobe, Curry, Harden, Parker over him next year if they were all healthy, as I think they impact winning more than Melo does right now. Theres also some young players in the NBA I'd take over Melo in the next 3-5 years going forward too(not next year, but 2-3 years down the line and onward).

Who knows if Melo CAN change at this point in his career. I think he's going to have to be a 1A or 2nd option if he's ever going to win, because he cant change his game for the better. I dont think there's any denying that he has the talent to be THE guy on a championship level team, but he doesn't have the makeup to reach that point.
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