Who are the superstars? - Page 4
Old 07-24-2013, 07:24 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I don't think that was me, homey, but I'm wasted right now so I'm not entirely sure...
My bad! I thought you started the thread. I realize now it was SteveTT
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:33 PM   #62 (permalink)
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My bad! I thought you started the thread. I realize now it was SteveTT
No problem, I agree with most that there are about 5 to 7 real superstars out there right now.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:37 PM   #63 (permalink)
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What's "of value" in your opinion?
Well the biggest one is being able to inspire a team to exceed its own expectations through your actions, attitude and your play on the court. Being a true team player, which he is far from. Being a true leader, which he is also far from. Doing all the things required to help your team win, not just firing shot after shot. (food just got here, gonna have to cut this short to eat lol)

Please enlighten me on what he does that makes him a superstar, other than score (which I already stated he shoots way too much, and ball hogs so much it makes his scoring irrelevant).
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:47 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Whatever...if the NBA got together to play pickup and Kobe and Lebron were picking teams, Melo would be picked 2nd behind Durant.
Good thing we don't pay for tickets to pickup games
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:02 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Well the biggest one is being able to inspire a team to exceed its own expectations through your actions, attitude and your play on the court. Being a true team player, which he is far from. Being a true leader, which he is also far from. Doing all the things required to help your team win, not just firing shot after shot. (food just got here, gonna have to cut this short to eat lol)

Please enlighten me on what he does that makes him a superstar, other than score (which I already stated he shoots way too much, and ball hogs so much it makes his scoring irrelevant).
I'll clarify my question. You said he hasn't achieved "anything of value" since college. How do you define "of value"?

He is a scorer, and there's nothing wrong with that. He averaged 28.7 efficient points during the season, rebounded and played ok defense. He was one of the best players in the league this season. I'd probably rank him 4th this year behind LeBron, Durant, CP3. Maybe we could add Duncan and Parker, maybe a couple more names, but it's a short list. He was less efficient during the playoffs -- but there was no 2nd option on that team during the playoffs and they played two of the best defensive teams in basketball.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:20 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I'll clarify my question. You said he hasn't achieved "anything of value" since college. How do you define "of value"?

He is a scorer, and there's nothing wrong with that. He averaged 28.7 efficient points during the season, rebounded and played ok defense. He was one of the best players in the league this season. I'd probably rank him 4th this year behind LeBron, Durant, CP3. Maybe we could add Duncan and Parker, maybe a couple more names, but it's a short list. He was less efficient during the playoffs -- but there was no 2nd option on that team during the playoffs and they played two of the best defensive teams in basketball.
If your going about it that way I suppose it was just bad choise of words in the first place on my part.

You're still just specifically talking about one year, I'm speaking career. He's never lead a team to anything, as you said West Finals, I'll give em that, and you are also correct that they did put up a fight. But that doesn't make him a superstar.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #67 (permalink)
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OMG there is a Morey smilile?!

This made me giggle like a little girl.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:32 PM   #68 (permalink)
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If your going about it that way I suppose it was just bad choise of words in the first place on my part.

You're still just specifically talking about one year, I'm speaking career. He's never lead a team to anything, as you said West Finals, I'll give em that, and you are also correct that they did put up a fight. But that doesn't make him a superstar.
It's not a bad choice of words, I understand you perfectly but you don't seem to understand what I'm asking, hehe...

I'm asking you about your criteria. Clearly, your main argument against him is winning. He hasn't won anything of value, he hasn't led his team anywhere, West Finals isn't enough. So, define please. NBA finals? Rings or bust? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line between a superstar and not a superstar.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:06 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Curry CP3 and Kyrie aren't in Melo's league - your'e in denial.

You don't have to like the guy to recognize that he's clearly one of the best players in the world. He brought it on both ends of the court last year. He was the best offensive player in the league last season.
45% shooting on 22 shots/gm... and he does sweet fuk all if he's not scoring.

Curry, CP3 and Kyrie can impact the game in other ways... because unlike Melo they actually have a decent bball IQ and don't ALWAYS look to chuck the ball.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:06 PM   #70 (permalink)
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It's not a bad choice of words, I understand you perfectly but you don't seem to understand what I'm asking, hehe...

I'm asking you about your criteria. Clearly, your main argument against him is winning. He hasn't won anything of value, he hasn't led his team anywhere, West Finals isn't enough. So, define please. NBA finals? Rings or bust? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line between a superstar and not a superstar.
An MVP, or very close to winning it sort of deal. In the major discussion at least? A finals and close to winning it, or at least just a few finals, or even consistent west finals. Carrying a team through leadership and inspiration. Being more than just a scorer/high volume shooter. Learning how to get his team involved at least a little bit, would help his game a lot more too. I don't mean giant improvement.

Look what every other superstar does with talent around them, they are consistent in their finals (West, east, NBA) or yes championships themselves. Now I'm not saying you need rings to be a superstar, but you need to be able to lead a team to a constant high level.

Kobe - Other than last year, constantly in the finals/winning. Hes the only one I wouldn't define as a leader though. But still brought it in crunch time HUGE, I honestly don't think I need to elaborate on why hes a star though lol.

Lebron - MVP's, Went to the finals with one of the worst teams ever. Won his rings. Dominates the league in just about every aspect of the game. Again, hes self explanitory.

Durant - In a short time in the NBA he's already lead a team to the West finals and NBA finals. He's a leader, and makes his team better along with playing at a very high level every game.

Just giving examples as they are the 3 main stars in the game. Kobe I still mention because everyone still talks about him, he can still score, but hes not what he used to be clearly. But one of the greatest ever to play so meh.


For the record, I also view Star and Superstar as two different things. Superstar obviously being the absolute best of the best. Stars are those elite players just below them.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:41 PM   #71 (permalink)
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An MVP, or very close to winning it sort of deal. In the major discussion at least? A finals and close to winning it, or at least just a few finals, or even consistent west finals. Carrying a team through leadership and inspiration. Being more than just a scorer/high volume shooter. Learning how to get his team involved at least a little bit, would help his game a lot more too. I don't mean giant improvement.

Look what every other superstar does with talent around them, they are consistent in their finals (West, east, NBA) or yes championships themselves. Now I'm not saying you need rings to be a superstar, but you need to be able to lead a team to a constant high level.

Kobe - Other than last year, constantly in the finals/winning. Hes the only one I wouldn't define as a leader though. But still brought it in crunch time HUGE, I honestly don't think I need to elaborate on why hes a star though lol.

Lebron - MVP's, Went to the finals with one of the worst teams ever. Won his rings. Dominates the league in just about every aspect of the game. Again, hes self explanitory.

Durant - In a short time in the NBA he's already lead a team to the West finals and NBA finals. He's a leader, and makes his team better along with playing at a very high level every game.

Just giving examples as they are the 3 main stars in the game. Kobe I still mention because everyone still talks about him, he can still score, but hes not what he used to be clearly. But one of the greatest ever to play so meh.


For the record, I also view Star and Superstar as two different things. Superstar obviously being the absolute best of the best. Stars are those elite players just below them.
Well, that's where it should start. If that's how you define a superstar, fair enough. There is 1 NBA player in his prime who fits the definition, maybe two since Durant kind of almost passes the winning aspect of that criteria.

I agree, Melo is not Durant or LeBron. We could've saved a lot of time, hehe..
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:07 AM   #72 (permalink)
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1. Melo is a complete player. He's above average in every facet of the game. Saying he's just a scorer in nonsense.

2. If Melo isn't the fourth best player in the league. Where would you put him?

If your point is that he is an egotistical volume shooter....ok...maybe he is. He's still probably the 3rd best player in the league.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:24 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
45% shooting on 22 shots/gm... and he does sweet fuk all if he's not scoring.

Curry, CP3 and Kyrie can impact the game in other ways... because unlike Melo they actually have a decent bball IQ and don't ALWAYS look to chuck the ball.
'
Toraptor - that is a nonsense post.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:26 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Good thing we don't pay for tickets to pickup games
You wouldn't pay money to watch Kobe/Melo + 3 all-stars play pick up against Lebron/Durant + 3 all-stars...do you like basketball?
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:17 AM   #75 (permalink)
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i simply class players as superstars when ever they get a few shots in a row and the first thought that hits my mind is "this dude is heating up" and these events happen consistently and almost a characteristic to them every game.

so for prime players LeBron, durant, rose, melo, harden and i guess curry.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:49 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Lebron
KD
CP3
Rose
Harden

Howard
Wade
Kobe
Melo
Love
Westbrook
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:56 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Franchise player and superstar are different IMO. Any of the top 10 players are franchise players, whereas to me superstar should be reserved for those guys who are a household name, even somebody who doesn't follow the NBA would know them. Guys like lebron and Kobe, maybe Durant.

Sometimes this can get tricky though. You can get guys like Blake who are probably more recognizable to the average Joe but not as good as somebody like Kevin Love.

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Old 07-25-2013, 05:12 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Well the biggest one is being able to inspire a team to exceed its own expectations through your actions, attitude and your play on the court. Being a true team player, which he is far from. Being a true leader, which he is also far from. Doing all the things required to help your team win, not just firing shot after shot. (food just got here, gonna have to cut this short to eat lol)

Please enlighten me on what he does that makes him a superstar, other than score (which I already stated he shoots way too much, and ball hogs so much it makes his scoring irrelevant).
all of your comments on melo are spot on.

edit: read a couple of decent points by bjjs, wanna expand on melo.

he is a tough case, he's a very good offensive player and he is above average in other areas, rebounding, defence (nothing special, just holds his own.) It comes down to that vague, annoying thing where you just feel like saying "I know what is see when I watch him play." He has good bball IQ, but just not in some areas! He definitely takes too many shots, he definitely hogs the ball and takes team-mates out of the game for periods.

players who destroy shit teams in reg season, put up good stats, (although his stats aren't amazing, way too many 35-40% nights, he's not efficient enough,) and then crash and burn in playoffs, really piss me off. Good teams will deal with the obvious tactics teams like the knicks use, basically iso-melo with other guys chipping in at various times. It's almost like rope-a-dope really. Let him get his numbers, although trying to make him efficient of course, and then deal with everything else which is easier because they have no flow.

if people wanna claim he was the 4th best player in the league last year, as an individual, ok, fair enough but if I was picking best players in the league based on who i'd want in my team, he'd be nowhere! honestly, solid players like kawhi leonard are much more preferable for ne.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:45 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Kawhi Leanard isn't close to Melo. That's ludicrous.

Melo has a better winning percentage then Chris Paul. But because of his history and because he's a scorer like Kobe, Jordan and Durant he's an egotistical volume shooter who lights up bad teams and can't do shit in the playoffs.

Chris Paul on the other hand, plays pg and gets to be the creator on pick and rolls, and is thefore a consummate leader and team player with a high bball iq.

Some of you are being basketball snobs. Thinking you know what 'brand' of basketball is the correct 'brand'. Melo's brand has him with a winning season in 8 straight (?) years winning at almost a 60% clip in the regular season. The only player in the NBA who gets the best of Melo is Lebron. And that's even close when they go toe to toe.

I would ever go as far to say he's the second best player in the league.

Kobe is old and has lost a step.

Durant didn't score as much as Melo did, and Melo is head and shoulders ahead of Durant in terms of defense and rebounding.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:58 AM   #80 (permalink)
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I understand when people say that Melo isn't a superstar IF the definition of superstar is "LeBron, maybe Durant".

But reading some of the arguments, it's like listening to Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless.

Replace Melo with a role player on last year's Knicks, they probably aren't a playoffs team, they have some depth but look at that roster. Without a healthy Amare on the bench, it's comparable to what the Bobcats used to put around Gerald Wallace.

Replace Melo with a role player on the 2009 Nuggets, are they still legit contenders? Billups, Nene and some depth. If that's your team, you aren't winning much in the playoffs. You definitely aren't destroying the CP3-Stojakovic-David West-Tyson Chandler Hornets, like those Nuggets did.

If someone dislikes Melo, that's fine. I somewhat dislike him too. But I wonder if people really believe all of what they are saying, if they try to look at it via brain instead of heart.
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