Who are the superstars? - Page 3
Old 07-24-2013, 02:13 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Could also be a future HoF list.
Lol Danny Granger XD
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
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And how many teams have multiple guys on these lists.....









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Old 07-24-2013, 02:27 PM   #44 (permalink)
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And how many teams have multiple guys on these lists.....









:morey:
The Lakers are the clear winner, 3 names on most lists. :cookie:
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:44 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Which part? Health, shooting or character flaws?

Westbrook has never missed a game until the recent knee bump.

He's not a good 3pt shooter but he's a good mid range shooter, and he's a very good player.

And by all accounts, he's a good guy.

I think there's a stigma where if a guy chucks some shots, people automatically assume that there must be something wrong with the player's character. "Hey, Kobe, Iverson and Steve Francis chucked shots, and they had personality issues, so Westbrook must be a bad guy too, derp derp."

Or maybe the guy simply chucks some shots? Westbrook, Rudy Gay, DeMar, Brandon Knight and so on all chuck some shots. Not everyone is Steve Nash. It doesn't mean they are bad people.
His body language on the floor is poor at times and his decision making is horrendous half the time.

I've always said... he'd be an ideal 2-guard. HATE him as a PG.

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Rondo was passing layups last year in order to maintain his "10+ assists in a game" streak. There was a number of terrible decisions, where he'd make a pass to a trailer for a more contested shot to get his assist.

He's a great player though when he gets his head straight. And it's been straight during the playoffs, to his credit.
Not my favourite thing to be sure.... but these things happen when you're chasing history. Rondo certainly wasn't the first one to do something like this and won't be the last.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:46 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I liked Haverchuck's post but I agree with all this. Rondo might be the greatest floor general in his generation of pgs and can dominate the game in many ways that some scoring pgs can't.

I also think Haver was giving to much credit to Harden. Houston had a solid supporting cast, and imo Kevin McHale did a fantastic job with that team. It was hardly just Harden carrying them on their shoulders.

Harden is right there with Curry - they're the best of the rest but they'll never be good enough to outplay Lebron/Durant/Kobe/Melo.

There are your four superstars. Only 4.

Some qualifications regarding my Houston comments:

I agree that McChale did a great job with Houston, especially because he planned things based on the roster he had, not the way he was comfortable playing. I expect Houston to play at least a bit differently on offense now, with Dwight's arrival. More stuff through the post, slower pace...etc.. And I think the Rockets defense will also improve as a consequence of that, will less gambling and running and gunning.

I think Harden carried a really big load offensively last year. I probably should have framed it that way. Asik was huge on the other end, and Parsons is a respectable two-way starter. But Houston didn't have elite offensive talent overall, yet they were one of the most efficient offensive teams. A lot of run and gun, for open looks. But you can't fast break and jack threes the whole game. Houston doesn't win games if Harden isn't createing decent shots for others in the half court situations they encountered. And he carried a big load on that end of the floor.

Lots of teams can run and gun to jack up the points per game totals, but Houston did it while remaining efficient. In my opinion, without Harden, the Rockets offense, as it was contructed last year, would have complete fallen apart. There are few guys who could lead an offensively challenged roster to such an efficient rating.

Oh, and I am comfortable with narrowing the superstar list down to a handfull of players if we're talking about superstar level of play right now, this very minute. Fair point. I think several of us were just playing along since Zan created 4 categories.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:49 PM   #47 (permalink)
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There's no way in hell that Melo deserves to be in that group. I would put Curry (who's a FAR better shooter and passer) & Harden before him without hesitation. Probably CP3 and Kyrie too (and a healthy Rose).

Melo's rapidly becoming the most overrated star in the league.... if he wasn't already.
Curry CP3 and Kyrie aren't in Melo's league - your'e in denial.

You don't have to like the guy to recognize that he's clearly one of the best players in the world. He brought it on both ends of the court last year. He was the best offensive player in the league last season.

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Old 07-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #48 (permalink)
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In my opinion to be a "superstar" there has to be a fine combination of otherworldly basketball ability (as BDL put it, carrying an average team as THE guy) as well as a reputation that transcends basketball. For example, in China you see ginormous Kobe and LeBron posters at any mall you go to. That to me defines a superstar. Based on that I really feel like the "superstar" category should be extremely exclusive.

100% of basketball fans can agree that Michael Jordan was a superstar. Obviously a phenomenal basketball talent, but also a huge celebrity. If you're considering Michael Jordan a superstar, you've set the bar high, and that's how it should be. Guys like Paul George, Steph Curry, Andre Iguodala, Zach Randolph, have absolutely no business being in a class like that. Great basketball players, but none of those guys fits either criteria of being able to lead an average team as THE guy or having a reputation that transcends basketball.

I agree with bjjs that there are only four superstars in the league, but disagree on who they are. For me it's LeBron/Kobe/Durant/Nash. Nash is obviously way past his prime but in his heyday the guy was HUGE.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Hey Bill, thank you.


Mind telling me why you don't think Lillard will become a superstar or star? Rookie of the year, has A LOT of college seasoning which is impressive and refreshing for once, is fearless towards the bucket from what I see, has a really good 3-point shot which will only get better, can pass and rebound at a decent clip, and it has been said by teammates he already is a leader and it actually feels like he has a veteran presence. There's been some comparisons to Derrick Rose. I like him. You're not the first person who doesn't agree about this.
Just my bullshit opinion but I think he's closer to his ceiling precisely because of that college seasoning. That's a big part of why he played so well as a rookie. It's not entirely a bad thing since that also brings the maturity you spoke about. I just don't think there's as much unknown with Lillard, since he's been working hard on his game for several years. I expect him to get better, but I just don't think he's going to leap to a superstar. As Kleet said, he'd have to improve his efficiency, but he's also got a ways to go yet to become an elite play maker. If he's going to be a Paul type of elite PG, he's got to improve a lot in the latter category (creating). If he's going to be a respectable creator who is primarily a scoring guard, then he's already behind somone like Irving who had far less college seasoning but is still considerably more efficient.

And I don't see the same explosiveness in his game that Derrick Rose has shown, so I'm not sure why people made those comparisons. D-Rose light? Even if so, that's an all-star, not a superstar. And right now he looks like he'll be a solid player who might make a couple of all-star games. He's good, I just wouldn't bet on him being that good.

Lillard kinda strikes me as what would happen if Billups and Curry had a love-child. That's still a really good player.

:mu:
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #50 (permalink)
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sooo...there's fewer than half a dozen supertars....and...../thread/

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Old 07-24-2013, 04:18 PM   #51 (permalink)
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:morey:
OMG there is a Morey smilile?!

This made me giggle like a little girl. :morey:
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:37 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Curry CP3 and Kyrie aren't in Melo's league - your'e in denial.

You don't have to like the guy to recognize that he's clearly one of the best players in the world. He brought it on both ends of the court last year. He was the best offensive player in the league last season.
Melo is no superstar... He's an ego maniac, a chucker and a cancer of a teammate. No matter how much talent gets put around him he still can't lead any team to anything resembling greatness. Thats what a superstar does. Not chuck 30 shots to get 30 points.

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Old 07-24-2013, 04:50 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Melo is no superstar... He's an ego maniac, an chucker and a cancer of a teammate. No matter how much talent gets put around him he still can't lead any team to anything resembling greatness. Thats what a superstar does. Not chuck 30 shots to get 30 points.

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Old 07-24-2013, 05:01 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Melo is no superstar... He's an ego maniac, an chucker and a cancer of a teammate. No matter how much talent gets put around him he still can't lead any team to anything resembling greatness. Thats what a superstar does. Not chuck 30 shots to get 30 points.
If their team last year had a lot of talent, then I'm a giraffe. :P
Tyson Chandler was abused by Hibbert on both ends, and he's supposed to be the Knicks 2nd best player. Besides that, they had JR Smith and a bunch of borderline starters.

In the big picture, Melo has never missed the playoffs in his career, and he went to the West conference finals and gave a good competitive series to prime Kobe-Pau Lakers. Overall, it's a solid career. There are supposed superstars who have achieved less.

And hey, now that Melo has Bargnani as his Pippen, maybe he can finally win a championship and silence all the critics. :cookie:

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Old 07-24-2013, 05:06 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Whatever...if the NBA got together to play pickup and Kobe and Lebron were picking teams, Melo would be picked 2nd behind Durant.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Whatever...if the NBA got together to play pickup and Kobe and Lebron were picking teams, Melo would be picked 2nd behind Durant.

Not if they ever wanted to touch the ball
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:57 PM   #57 (permalink)
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If their team last year had a lot of talent, then I'm a giraffe. :P
Tyson Chandler was abused by Hibbert on both ends, and he's supposed to be the Knicks 2nd best player. Besides that, they had JR Smith and a bunch of borderline starters.

In the big picture, Melo has never missed the playoffs in his career, and he went to the West conference finals and gave a good competitive series to prime Kobe-Pau Lakers. Overall, it's a solid career. There are supposed superstars who have achieved less.

And hey, now that Melo has Bargnani as his Pippen, maybe he can finally win a championship and silence all the critics. :cookie:
Yes because I was specifically talking about last year...

Making the playoffs means nothing honestly given the teams hes had theres no way he should miss the playoffs. Hes no leader, he inspires nobody, hes arrogant, and hes never accomplished anything of value in his career, other than in the NCAA. Hes no superstar, just a high volume shooter/scorer and a ball hog thats it.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I think several of us were just playing along since Zan created 4 categories.
I don't think that was me, homey, but I'm wasted right now so I'm not entirely sure... :jack:
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:09 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Yes because I was specifically talking about last year...

Making the playoffs means nothing honestly given the teams hes had theres no way he should miss the playoffs. Hes no leader, he inspires nobody, hes arrogant, and hes never accomplished anything of value in his career, other than in the NCAA. Hes no superstar, just a high volume shooter/scorer and a ball hog thats it.
What's "of value" in your opinion?
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Lol Danny Granger XD
Lol that you can find one thing in you own list to squabble about. But ya ur right... it was a terrible list.

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