|11-19-2011, 12:43 AM||#41 (permalink)|
in a battle for Eeyore's soul! Save him! For the dark side hath cookies!
Join Date: Dec 2008
-Baron Davis is as strong as he is athletic; if you recall, he's always had the build he plays at now, but he could dunk over guys, even now in his 30s. His athleticism also shows in all areas of the defensive end - which is where being a chubster really hurts a team. I don't feel this example of yours is valid. Baron's body type is like Shaq at the PG position (as strong as he is athletic; rare, and the only other PG w/his combo of height, strength, athleticism & skillset is Deron Williams). Search youtube 'trane; chubsters don't dunk on people in the fashion Baron did & still does now & then.
-Tractor Traylor's weight is what held him back. Watching him play (w/very athletic & wiry strong PF/C Maceo Baston flanking him defensively) at UofM in the 90s, everyone figured if he got his weight under control, he'd be at least 17ppg/10rpg PF/C in the NBA.
-While Z-Bo's athleticism isn't up to Shaq, Baron, & Deron's level, his strength, skillset, ball IQ, & conditioning is right up to par. I've never considered Z-Bo a chubster; I don't think he's ever had weight trouble thus far in his 10yr career either. I think the fact that he has a really round head and is the only 20+ ppg big man in the league not dunking on people is what make folk think he's a chubster. Rather, his body type is fully akin to Charles Oakley.
-Steve Francis had Baron's body type, dunking on people after blowing past initial defenders; his build says he should've still been in the NBA already, but he has a negative impact ball IQ & dumbass attitude like his homeboy Cuttino Mobley - Baron's body type but nothing else like Baron at all. Steve & Cuttino were right up there (rather, right down there) with Nick Van Exel, Damon Stoudemire & Kenny Anderson (& others) in 'how to look like an all-star guard yet have absolutely nothing but negative substance to your game'-ness. Both Yao & Dwight could attest to that if they'd be completely honest....
...but yeah when folk started catching on to how bad a player Steve really was, he started even looking 'fat'.
-Eddie Curry could score with the best of them, but he needed above average defenders at each position at all times when he was on the court b/c he was such a liability on that end, all due to his weight. It'd look like he's not giving effort, & he didn't, b/c when he would exert himself defensively it'd result in a clumsily committed foul - all b/c of his build!. Even when he'd have big scoriing nights in close games, Coach Skiles would have him on the bench in the stretch run. And let's remember the *one* time his team made the playoffs, he missed it with an irregular heartbeat. Thus Eddie's not the example you're looking for.
-Glen Davis is a good 2nd unit player surrounded by above average defenders. There aren't too many other teams that could've effectively given him the opportunity he's gotten to develop. I certainly like his game after 4yrs now (I didn't before as I thought he was soft); real good system defender whom IIRC, lead the league in charges taken in 10-11. Imagine what more he could do if he was as dedicated as Udonis Haslem to losing weight (when Udonis was at Florida U., he was as big as Glen here; now he's 6'8 230lbs, and is a power forward who's athletic, strong, and skilled enough to also play center and even small forward - which is what you'd truly think is his fulltime position if you'd right now imagine seeing him for the 1st time in a NBA uniform!).
-Oh man I *LOVED* Oliver Miller's game even before the Raptors got him in the dispersal draft! And it's of note that Coach Collins in '95 let him go, despite being the Pistons most skilled big man, BECAUSE he tipped the scales to 'show' he's not as heavy as he looks! THAT'S how he became a Raptor! LOL! Still he's my 2nd favourite chubster in NBA history, behind his Piston's teammate Terry Mills!
The thing is Oliver was so skilled, putting up numbers in every area they have stats for (the only other pivots doing so were Hakeem Olajuwon & David Robinson - in the past 20yrs!!), but his weight held him back in the non-stat reward defensive plays that bigs are supposed to make. Though to be sure, he was even sometimes effective in that, depending on the competition.
I'll say this: If Oliver was our center in 2000-01 instead of Stonehandio Davis, and was playing without ANY weight issues (like the transformation Udonis made juss b4 entering the NBA w/the Miami Heat), then we're *BEATING* that Philadelphia 76ers team that made it to the Finals! For real! Oliver without weight issues would've caught the ball on the low block without any trouble (soft hands like Chris Bosh) and would've consistently (instead of part time like when he started for us in 95-96) scored or made plays for everyone he'd be on the court with on that team. And he'd be equally as effective on defense as Stonehandio was; perhaps even more so, given his unique skillset and opportunity to be mentored by Oakley, who always made everyone around him better!
So I think the only effective example you've given is Glen Davis, whose played his entire career w/Paul Peirce, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo & Kevin Garnett (the first two are underrated defenders in all areas of D, the latter two are perrenial 1st-team All-Defensive Team candidates) & a terrific coach in Coach Rivers - whom if you recall how he played in the 90s, you'd see how he'd coach anyone to be at their best defensively according to the system; only Allen Iverson & Isiah Thomas matched him in playing through injuries & still throwing themselves everywhere on defense, chasing loose balls n all. Glen's obviously taken advantage of it & become a good 2nd unit player & I like watching him play (on both ends in the Celtic's system), but the fact that his stars aligned perfectly for his development must be acknowledged.
Last edited by bladeofBG; 11-19-2011 at 12:45 AM.
|11-19-2011, 02:21 PM||#45 (permalink)|
chucking wood like a woodchuck would if a woodchuck could chuck wood
Join Date: Aug 2011
I don't have much knowledge about NFL, but I'd imagine fat has advantages in certain positions. Or at least isn't as detrimental as in basketball.
Some sports, low center of gravity and mass is just much more important than agility, speed and endurance.
Think sumo. It's quite impossible to compete there without a pear shaped body with huge body mass. They have a ton of muscle mass. But they also want a ton of fat on top of it. It lowers the center of gravity, adds weight, and also the fat absorbs shock power which may not be so important in NFL because of protective uniforms but very key in sumo.
Acceleration = force/mass, so in extreme "pushing" based activities (where someone tries to push you) fat is king.
But in those cases, could we say that fat does not mean you are a bad athlete? I have a hard time calling a sumo wrestler a bad athlete. And I have an easier time calling Eddy Curry a bad athlete than all those fat butt NFL players who actually leverage their fat butts into advantage.
Last edited by ValanciunasFanboy; 11-19-2011 at 02:28 PM.