West's forthcoming free agency - Page 2
Old 05-21-2013, 07:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I like West, but I think Millsap would be the much better option unless he end up being considerably more expensive (10 mil/year +).

In regards to the Clippers, I think they should explore trading Blake Griffin for Lamarcus Aldridge. That would be a fair trade and great fit for the Clips IMO.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Metallikid View Post
West would be huge for us, he's like the all-star version of Amir but with a jumper.
Amir doesn't have a jumper?
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:03 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Amir doesn't have a jumper?
Not one I or the coaching staff have any faith in, hence the fact they virtually never run pick-and-pop for him. West's nickname is the 18-foot assassin, there's no comparison.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:29 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Griffin is all flash, no substance. When it counts in the play-offs and the game grinds to a half court game Griffin is as useful as a boob on a 2x4. His decision making is extremely poor, he can barely hit anything from 2' out, he can't create for himself or others in the slightest, his passes out of the post when they do come are not the best and he's dumb as a post in the post. I'll take West and kick Griffins ass with him every time.
You are underselling Griffin's skillset in a major way.

I think the problem is that it has become cool to dislike Griffin. He's on TV all the time, he flops and he hasn't been past round 2. He's the new Vince in terms of going from fan favorite to the guy who's fun to hate.

And you are overselling West's defense. He's a solid man defender if his guy isn't very quick. He's pretty smart in PnR defense. But he can be a miserable help defender, he's slow and not too athletic.

I could see some case - although a shaky case - for taking West on a team that's desperate for spacing and for veteran leadership. But in general Griffin is an effective, efficient player who's improved quite a bit skill wise every year, and I'd put him in a tier above guys like West, Millsap, David Lee, etc. The Clippers would be moronic if they took West over Blake Griffin unless Griffin and CP3 are knife fighting in practice - although I guess they aren't the wisest of organizations.

Anyway, i don't see a realistic way to get West on the Clippers, so i guess it's all moot.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:37 AM   #25 (permalink)
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You are underselling Griffin's skillset in a major way.

I think the problem is that it has become cool to dislike Griffin. He's on TV all the time, he flops and he hasn't been past round 2. He's the new Vince in terms of going from fan favorite to the guy who's fun to hate.

And you are overselling West's defense. He's a solid man defender if his guy isn't very quick. He's pretty smart in PnR defense. But he can be a miserable help defender, he's slow and not too athletic.

I could see some case - although a shaky case - for taking West on a team that's desperate for spacing and for veteran leadership. But in general Griffin is an effective, efficient player who's improved quite a bit skill wise every year, and I'd put him in a tier above guys like West, Millsap, David Lee, etc. The Clippers would be moronic if they took West over Blake Griffin unless Griffin and CP3 are knife fighting in practice - although I guess they aren't the wisest of organizations.

Anyway, i don't see a realistic way to get West on the Clippers, so i guess it's all moot.
No no - I get what you're saying but I'm not one to just jump on trends or bandwagons. I haven't been a fan of Griffin's since he came into the league. He's not improved much in any area and is lost out on the floor unless Paul is out there.

In regards to West's defense, please understand I'm only coming from the perspective of comparing these 3 players only, not each against the league.

I would actually trade Griffin for a re-signed West/Granger. Then I would send a line-up of Paul/Billups/Granger/West/Jordan with Jamal the 6th man. That line would be a much better line than what the Clips are doing now - defense and offense, with the ability to go half court or speed it up.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm amazed by how Griffin manages to average so many assists despite not being able to pass or create for others.

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:55 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm amazed at how Indiana can be so good on the defensive end of the court despite their starting power forward being a miserable help defender. There is a lot to be amazed at on this forum.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
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This thread is amazing!

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Old 05-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm amazed at how Indiana can be so good on the defensive end of the court despite their starting power forward being a miserable help defender.
I'm amazed you not speaking about Griffin, whose worse than West, by far - since thats who's being compared
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm amazed by how Griffin manages to average so many assists despite not being able to pass or create for others.

I'm amazed to that Griffin can get 2.5 apg in the flow of the offense in the playoffs (when it counts), you know, cause he's under the basket where Paul finds him. Not like he's creating. Same goes for West as well.

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 05-22-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I see West as ZBo type of player with a better shooting. Big body...smart...efficient. Griffin is a freak PF athlete who is rare in this league. Why can't they co-exist? Get rid of DJ...and play West and Griffin...one is a fundamental ball player while the other crashes the boards and hustles.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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No no - I get what you're saying but I'm not one to just jump on trends or bandwagons. I haven't been a fan of Griffin's since he came into the league. He's not improved much in any area and is lost out on the floor unless Paul is out there.

In regards to West's defense, please understand I'm only coming from the perspective of comparing these 3 players only, not each against the league.

I would actually trade Griffin for a re-signed West/Granger. Then I would send a line-up of Paul/Billups/Granger/West/Jordan with Jamal the 6th man. That line would be a much better line than what the Clips are doing now - defense and offense, with the ability to go half court or speed it up.
btw, Griffin, West, who's the 3rd player? i missed that.

IMO, Granger/West > Butler/Griffin if Granger was healthy but tendinosis is a big deal and the window for that team would be very short. Assuming it ever opens up. Granger might easily be the new Butler.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:33 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I see West as ZBo type of player with a better shooting. Big body...smart...efficient. Griffin is a freak PF athlete who is rare in this league. Why can't they co-exist? Get rid of DJ...and play West and Griffin...one is a fundamental ball player while the other crashes the boards and hustles.
I agree with this.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:37 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm amazed at how Indiana can be so good on the defensive end of the court despite their starting power forward being a miserable help defender. There is a lot to be amazed at on this forum.
How amazed would you be if I told you that the best defense of 2012 started Carlos Boozer at PF?
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:00 PM   #35 (permalink)
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How amazed would you be if I told you that the best defense of 2012 started Carlos Boozer at PF?
I'd like to see a team of guys like Jrue, Tony Allen, Paul George, Ibaka and Noah coached by D'Antoni versus Nash, Kobe, Melo, Griffin and Brook Lopez coached by Thibs over a season. Which team would have the better defense?
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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How amazed would you be if I told you that the best defense of 2012 started Carlos Boozer at PF?
David West is a very good help defender, and Carlos Boozer is slightly below average. Both are far from miserable.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:08 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I'd be amazed if West knew how to pound the rock.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:25 PM   #38 (permalink)
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David West is a very good help defender
I'll respectfully disagree.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:28 PM   #39 (permalink)
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It's not the greatest stat but West's drating this season was 99 which is pretty good. He had a career year ala winshares/48 minutes at.179 which is very good.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Some of the posters in this thread are completely out to lunch. West is currently a better option in the playoffs than Griffin because of his solid offensive game and array of moves. And yes, he's a solid help defender. But to say that if he came to LAC he'd start over BG? Are you fucking crazy? Do you really think the Clippers would bench their best young player who is on every billboard and is one of the 2 main reasons their arena sells out every night in favor of David West? Comeon. And really, who's to say Griffin doesn't come back even better next year?

To those who said he's a one trick pony with no basketball moves, you're also out of your damn mind. People criticized BG last year for having no midrange game, not caring about defence, and terrible free throw shooting. This year he came back and upped his FT percentage by 14%, and his midrange game was a lot better, even though it isn't where it needs to be as of yet. His defence was also A LOT better than his previous season, both individually, and help wise. Blake also added a jump hook with BOTH hands this season, and his spin move layup over his right shoulder is almost unstoppable when he goes quick in the post. I think Blakes improvement this year has been substantial, and shows his commitment to getting better.

Blakes biggest issues are making quick moves in the post, as he often gets the ball, holds it, backs down for 5 seconds, and then kicks it out once the help comes, leaving little to no time on the shot clock. That's his biggest weakness on offence. If he used his quickness with his faceup moves, he'd be unstoppable. I think he'll learn that within 1-2 years, and he may end up being the best PF in basketball sooner than people think. His other issues are his inconsistent rebounding, and spot up game. He has way too many games with under 7 rebounds, and theres no excuse for that with his ability. And his spot up shot not only needs to improve, but as stated above, he needs to shoot it off the catch instead of holding it so damn long(Carmelo Anthony syndrome).

If the Clippers do get West, it's going to be in a 6th man role. They're not going to start him with BG, nor bring BG off the bench(one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read on this board. If you actually believe that Doc, you seriously need to switch sports). If they started both together, although they'd be a great offensive team, their complete lack of rebounding and size would kill them on the other end. I can see West taking a 6th man role with them and playing 30 mpg off of the bench a la Odom a few years ago with LA, but that's the only role he'll have on LAC based on their current roster. He'd be a fantastic fit though because him and CP3 were deadly on screen and roll/pop a few years ago.

I think West will ultimately come back to IND though in a starting role. He fits there, would get more money, and more minutes.
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