top ten POWER FORWARDS thru 2011-2012
Old 07-16-2008, 12:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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thats the next 3 years..brand,duncan,amare,bosh,boozer,aldridge, west,garnett,jaminson and okafor...left out gasol and josh smith.. imo we have the best 4 man !!!!
I don't know where to put this post so i put it under Nba Discussion, i think its an interesting topic to talk about, but i would have to total disagree with this person... Their is no way Brand OR Duncan would be the top 2 power forwards in the NBA in 4 years because of their age and they will probably deteriorate. In my opinion the top 3 power forwards in 2011-2012 would be Amare,Bosh and than Aldridge...oops, meant to put it on Nba talk
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=825707

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Old 07-16-2008, 01:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hopefully Bargnani..
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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aldridge? meh

IMO Top 10 4 years from now.

Bosh
Amare
Al Jefferson
Horford
Bargs(homer pick)
West
Boozer
Lee
Aldridge
Al Thornton

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Brand (when healthy) is definitely better than Amare right now. But i'm not too sure about Aldridge
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Major View Post
Brand (when healthy) is definitely better than Amare right now. But i'm not too sure about Aldridge
First of all they're discussing 2011-2012, so that's irrelevant, but I would disagree anyway. Amare is an absolute beast.

Best 4's in the league in 4 years?

Bosh, Amare, Al Jefferson, Michael Beasley, Boozer, Aldridge, Josh Smith, David West, Horford, Okafor

Whoever made that realgm list needs their head checked. Brand, Duncan and Garnett will be lucky to still be playing in 2012. And how do you make this list and leave off Al Jefferson? He's top 10 PF's in the league now!
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Al Jefferson will be the best 4 in the league in 4 years hands down.
the guy is a beast and is so young.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Al Jefferson will be the best 4 in the league in 4 years hands down.
the guy is a beast and is so young.
No Bosh will be the best and Jefferson/Amare will be 2nd 3rd and Tiago Splitter will be 4th and Bargs 5th
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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How is Bosh in any way better than Amare? Both suck on D while one of them is nearly automatic on their jumper, whereas one has regressed, one is completely unstoppable at going to the basket and doesnt shy away from it, and the other seems to stop going hard to the rim later in the year due to his conditioning. Amare has been an absolute beast in the playoffs from day 1 and Bosh has had good performances in about half his games.

If Bosh ever wants to become better than Amare he better get his conditioning level up so he can play through the fatigue later in the year or else its just gonna be the same old story.

Thornton is a 3 btw.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yea but look who amare has to play with(steve nash and shaq).

while Bosh is being defended by 5 orlando players. also dont forget the games in the playoffs where amare gets like 6 turnovers.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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And Bosh has always had to defend the Best big man on opposing teams as well as being the primary scoring option on offense. Amare has always Nash and Marion to help with that-2 allstars-
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
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good arguements guys.
think how unstoppable Bosh would be if he had nash running the point, and had shaq doing the dirty work in the paint.
the playoffs cant be used to compare Bosh and amare because Bosh was doubled and pressured every possesion.
plus CB was matched up vs most of the other teams bigs for the majority of games.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Think how unstoppable Bosh will be with Jose(who has grown with Bosh the last three years) getting him the ball and Jo down low doing all the dirty work and I'll add having Moon flashing through the lane making defenses move and AP/Kaps on the outside waiting for their man to double down.....
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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How is Bosh in any way better than Amare? Both suck on D while one of them is nearly automatic on their jumper, whereas one has regressed
Your other points were solid...but the jumper?

Bosh's jumper >>>>> Amare's

I don't care how much Amare's has improved. He still doesn't have Bosh's range. Amare is nice from a few feet out, but he can't use it as a weapon like Bosh does. Amare falls back on the jumper when the drive to the bucket is taken away, Bosh uses it as part of his attack when he operates from the elbow. Amare is making great strides with the jumper, but that mid range pop is a huge part of Bosh's game.

And I agree with you that Amare puts up better numbers and such, but as has been mentioned, he's never been the focal point of an offense.

Wait and see how he plays when he's given the ball and expected to create while facing a double team all game. That's a little different than catching bounce passes. Not saying he can't do it, but he never has, and Bosh does regularly.

Amare will be forced to further develop his game once Nash is gone. He'll have to improve either his ball handling and shooting to give himself a Bosh-type game, or his low post moves and passing for a more traditional big man game. As I said, I'm sure he's capable, but Bosh is already a proven go to guy.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Your other points were solid...but the jumper?

Bosh's jumper >>>>> Amare's
Sorry man, but the last 2 years, possibly 3, Amare has been near automatic from midrange and is probably the 3rd or 4th best midrange shooter for a big behind Dirk/KG/West. I'm almost positive if I found the hotzones Amares midrange % would be around 47 or 48 and Boshs would be around 43.

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I don't care how much Amare's has improved. He still doesn't have Bosh's range. Amare is nice from a few feet out, but he can't use it as a weapon like Bosh does. Amare falls back on the jumper when the drive to the bucket is taken away, Bosh uses it as part of his attack when he operates from the elbow. Amare is making great strides with the jumper, but that mid range pop is a huge part of Bosh's game.
Amares jumper is what has allowed him to expand his game since coming back from injury. When teams lay off him he just destroys them with his jumper and he HAS extended it to 18 feet out. He also has a nice fadeaway now, so he isnt like pre injury Amare where it was just 10 foot jumper or drive recklessly to the rim. He can actually hit a wide variety of shots now and also can finish at the rim in numerous ways besides dunking, something he couldnt do before the injury.

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And I agree with you that Amare puts up better numbers and such, but as has been mentioned, he's never been the focal point of an offense.
He was this year(especially in the 2 nd half of the season), and destroyed the league when they got Shaq. I'm hoping JO has the same effect on Bosh.

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Wait and see how he plays when he's given the ball and expected to create while facing a double team all game. That's a little different than catching bounce passes. Not saying he can't do it, but he never has, and Bosh does regularly.
Yeah itll be interesting to see what happens when teams do start to double him, but he has shown some solid passing skills when teams have sagged on him. But then again if the Suns keep putting very good talent around him its gonna be hard for teams to double him at all.

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Amare will be forced to further develop his game once Nash is gone. He'll have to improve either his ball handling and shooting to give himself a Bosh-type game, or his low post moves and passing for a more traditional big man game. As I said, I'm sure he's capable, but Bosh is already a proven go to guy.
Amare doesnt need to improve his low post game much because hes 6'9, he cant post up most PF's since theyre taller and most of the time wider. His faceup game is probably the best in the league for a big right now besides Dirk(depends on your preference). Even Bostons D couldnt stop him. Bosh doesnt have a lot of low post game either thats why hes been easy to double the last couple years, and really, I'd take Amares simple attack the basket or shoot the faceup J over Bosh's hesitation faceup game any day of the week. When Bosh goes quick he is amare like and nearly impossible to stop, but like I mentioned for whatever reason late in the season he just stops doing it.

And I gotta find those midrange stats for you.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Under Key 15ft 3
444 221 337 22
267 90 140 9
Bosh 0.60 0.41 0.42 0.41

744 231 205 30
500 109 100 5
Amare 0.67 0.47 0.49 0.17



PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% Usg% ORtg DRtg
Bosh 20.4 0.566 0.49 8.2 20.5 14.2 10 1.1 2.6 11.5 23.9 112 106

Amare 22.9 0.602 0.542 9.3 20.4 15.1 6.4 1.4 3.1 12.6 26.3 114 103

As you can see Amare has the better PER and Total Shot Percentage but considering that Bosh is the main man here and has been double teamed since he first came into the league and has never really had much of a team around him he isn't that far off of Amare's numbers.

A better determination for comparison would be usage rate, offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency. Bosh has 2.5 lower usage rate yet (keep in mind Bosh being the one and only focal point of the offense and the Nash effect in Phoenix) still is only 2 points lower on offensive efficiency and is 3 point higher on defensive efficiency.

Thats not even taking into account Rebounding, Turnover and Assist rates.

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Old 07-17-2008, 12:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adequate Swag View Post
Your other points were solid...but the jumper?

Bosh's jumper >>>>> Amare's

I don't care how much Amare's has improved. He still doesn't have Bosh's range. Amare is nice from a few feet out, but he can't use it as a weapon like Bosh does. Amare falls back on the jumper when the drive to the bucket is taken away, Bosh uses it as part of his attack when he operates from the elbow. Amare is making great strides with the jumper, but that mid range pop is a huge part of Bosh's game.

And I agree with you that Amare puts up better numbers and such, but as has been mentioned, he's never been the focal point of an offense.

Wait and see how he plays when he's given the ball and expected to create while facing a double team all game. That's a little different than catching bounce passes. Not saying he can't do it, but he never has, and Bosh does regularly.

Amare will be forced to further develop his game once Nash is gone. He'll have to improve either his ball handling and shooting to give himself a Bosh-type game, or his low post moves and passing for a more traditional big man game. As I said, I'm sure he's capable, but Bosh is already a proven go to guy.
Exactly, Bosh's skill set is much larger than Amare's IMO
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Exactly, Bosh's skill set is much larger than Amare's IMO
How so? Besides passing what does he do better?

Amare is 10x better at getting to the rim and not only finishing but getting to the line, his midrange jumper is better, and hes more explosive with the faceup game.

I bet if you asked Tim Duncan who he'd least like to face he'd say Amare, not Bosh. Amare ATTACKS teams defences all game, Bosh doesnt. And the sagging/doubles shouldnt be a cop out, as we've all seen hes more than capable of catching and making the quick move and being unstoppable that way, but instead he holds the ball too long and LETS the defence zone in on him. It's his own fault a lot of the time. The NJ series was a perfect example of it, if you dont believe me go back and rewatch it. So many times he caught it, waited for 4 seconds, dribbled, dribbled back, and then the shot clock was down to 4 or 5 and we had no chance of good ball rotation or him getting to the rim. Hes way to indecisive sometimes, and thats a big reason I like Amare better, he just GOES and attacks everytime he catches it.
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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How so? Besides passing what does he do better?

Amare is 10x better at getting to the rim and not only finishing but getting to the line, his midrange jumper is better, and hes more explosive with the faceup game.

I bet if you asked Tim Duncan who he'd least like to face he'd say Amare, not Bosh. Amare ATTACKS teams defences all game, Bosh doesnt. And the sagging/doubles shouldnt be a cop out, as we've all seen hes more than capable of catching and making the quick move and being unstoppable that way, but instead he holds the ball too long and LETS the defence zone in on him. It's his own fault a lot of the time. The NJ series was a perfect example of it, if you dont believe me go back and rewatch it. So many times he caught it, waited for 4 seconds, dribbled, dribbled back, and then the shot clock was down to 4 or 5 and we had no chance of good ball rotation or him getting to the rim. Hes way to indecisive sometimes, and thats a big reason I like Amare better, he just GOES and attacks everytime he catches it.
Read my post above. Its alot easier when you have, arguably, one of the best point guards ever drawing defenses and getting you the ball at your perfect position. (again the Nash effect, where playing with him all but guarantees career highs in numbers)

Bosh has always had the ball dumped into him 70% of the time during games, under double coverage and everyone else stands around. There wasn't any effort to alievieate some of the pressures on him. Dont think for one second the guy wasn't tired and held the ball partially for that reason and partially for the previous. And Amare has always had a good team surrounding him, if Amare faced the double and triple teams like Bosh hed be awake all night with Nightmares.

If amare and Bosh could have switched places the last 4 years dont think for one second Bosh's numbers wouldnt be ridiculousy higher.

And still after all of this His numbers are very close to amares.

So you may like Amare's playing style more(thanks to Nash) but you cannot say he is a better player than Bosh, nor can you say that Bosh is better than Amare(at least for now). But in 4 years time Bosh will be better because in 4 years Nash wont be there to help Amare.

And if you dont think that Amares stats have just as much to do with Nash as anything just remember back to the season when an Amareless Suns won 62 games.
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Amare scored a lot more on his own this year than in years past especially in the 2nd half. HE became their #1 option, why wouldnt be improve a ton over the next 4 years as well?

Youre right thats its hard to judge them due to Nash, but from what I saw of Amare this year his game keeps expanding every offseason and he always improves one area of his game a ton coming into a new year.

I still think whether its now or in the future, players fear going up against Amare a lot more than they do Bosh. It will be very interesting to see where Amares game goes to next year with Nash not being the same player.

And I dont just like his playing style more thanks to Nash. When Amare gets the ball ft line extended on an isolation, it is one of the hardest plays in the league to stop because of all the options and tools he has now from that position. Even without Nash I think hes impossible to stop, I think this past year proved that if you watched the Suns enough to see. He showed the entire repetoire.

If Bosh can ever go an entire year where he consistantly goes to the basket and makes quick moves so the better defences cant zone in on him then I may put him higher than Amare but hes still shown an inability to do so. His lack of conditioning worries me.
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