Thriller's Around the NBA Daily 2011-2012 Edition

ClutchCity · 03-24-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever

I think it was $40M over 4 years... which is a pretty good deal considering he's a true 5 and one of the best shotblockers in the league. He's still a bit raw but he was a load of potential.

I would have LOVED him here for that money.

Not too bad. He does have potential no doubt. His problem is that he wants to block EVERY shot. That's not good. Sometimes a team takes advantage of this because Jordan tends to over-help just because he's so eager to block a shot. This not only messes up the last line of D, but also makes rebounding harder now that you have one of your best rebounders out of position. He'll learn, no doubt. But he needs to develop SOMETHING on the offensive end. Anything. He can only dunk. That's it. Even Dwight has a nice right hook that's very difficult to stop. It takes time, but he can learn some post moves down there.

Dark Knight · 03-24-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

Yup. You could imagine a Laker fan's excitement when we upgraded from the worst starting PG in the league to a top 15 PG...

Top 15?

TORaptor4Ever · 03-24-2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

Not too bad. He does have potential no doubt. His problem is that he wants to block EVERY shot. That's not good. Sometimes a team takes advantage of this because Jordan tends to over-help just because he's so eager to block a shot. This not only messes up the last line of D, but also makes rebounding harder now that you have one of your best rebounders out of position. He'll learn, no doubt. But he needs to develop SOMETHING on the offensive end. Anything. He can only dunk. That's it. Even Dwight has a nice right hook that's very difficult to stop. It takes time, but he can learn some post moves down there.

All Chandler can do on offense is dunk and it got him a ring.

As long as there are other scorers around him (and a good PG to spoon feed him) he'll be fine.

ClutchCity · 03-24-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever

All Chandler can do on offense is dunk and it got him a ring.

As long as there are other scorers around him (and a good PG to spoon feed him) he'll be fine.

You're right. However, Chandler's D is light years ahead of Jordan's. Plus, at least Chandler can shoot FTs.

TORaptor4Ever · 03-24-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

You're right. However, Chandler's D is light years ahead of Jordan's. Plus, at least Chandler can shoot FTs.

No doubt DJ's got a ways to go before he's at that level.... but I think he can get there... even with his limited offense.

TORaptor4Ever · 03-24-2012, 08:43 PM

I'd put Lin over him for now based on what I've seen.... that could change though depending on how both players finish off the season.

No mention of Jose at all? Or Rubio?

I think that Wall is MASSIVELY overrated right now... he's just so dumb at the PG spot.

Sessions might be top 20 right now... but I don't know that we've seen enough of him yet to really put him past most of those guys in that 2nd tier that you listed.

JMO.

Dark Knight · 03-24-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

Yeah. Unless you think dudes like Jeremy Lin are better LOL. Name me 15 PG's who you think are clearly better. I'll start with the obvious ones:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Steve Nash
7. Tony Parker
8. Stephen Curry
9. John Wall
10. Jason Kidd
11. Kyle Lowry

Those are the only PG's I can say are for sure better than Sessions. Dudes like Holiday, Lawson, Conley are debatable. That puts him around 15. I don't think dudes like Harris, Nelson, Felton, Andre Miller, Barea, Darren Collison, Stuckey are on Sessions' level. At worst, Sessions is a top 20 PG. I'm not even saying this as an overreaction to what he's doing for LA. The way he plays the game is so simple and controlled. He's doing nothing out of the ordinary save for the fact that he's shooting at a very high clip. His D is decent, his rebounding is good, his pick and roll is one of the best at his position, his midrange jumper looks smooth, he's quick, he can penetrate AND finish, his passing is on point, and he doesn't turn the ball over. That's the making of a great PG. He was never given the opportunity early on in his career because he played behind Jennings, Flynn, and Irving who were all high draft picks. Whenever he got starter minutes, he put up big numbers.

I do like the fit for him with the Lakers, definitely puts them that much closer to serious contention, however I think you're overrating his abilities just a little. Sessions is a real nice role player on a good team, but I just don't see him being the full-time starting point guard for a championship-winning team.I would take any of Holiday, Conley, Lawson or even Collison over Sessions and I wouldn't even think twice about it. He'd be an excellent 6th or 7th man though.

And for what it's worth, my top 15 would look something like:

Paul
Rose
Williams
Rondo
Westbrook
Nash
Parker
Curry
Irving
Rubio
Lowry
Holiday
Lawson
Miller
Wall

I agree with TORap, not exactly sold on Wall yet. Maybe in a few seasons he'll move up my ladder.

Dark Knight · 03-24-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

lmao Collison is god awful. And you said Holiday twice. You named only 14 players if you really want to include Collison as part of the list. Thanks for proving my point

The thing is, when it comes to being a pure point guard, Ramon is one of the best in the business. He's a much better point guard than dudes like Collison, Holiday, Lawson, etc. There's no one thing he's amazing at, but he's pretty good in pretty much every aspect that makse up a great PG like Paul.

It I was judging by how he fit the team, I would say Ramon is better than dudes like Rondo/Westbrook because Ramon's abilities fit the Lakers' needs better.

Whoops, I'll just slide Andre Miller into one of the Holiday's spots.

Are you implying that the Lakers would be in no better position with Lawson or Holiday than with Sessions? I gotta say, I disagree. Those guys are going to be stars in the league someday, while Sessions has already reached his peak...which is being a very good bench player on a good team.

Have you always been this big of a Ramon fan when he was in Milwaukee or Cleveland, or was it not until he started dawning the Purple and Gold that you started appreciating him? Just wondering...

And you comparing Sessions' game to Paul's just proves my point.

Dark Knight · 03-24-2012, 09:17 PM

There are a bunch of borderline players I could've gone with. Nelson, Felton, Collison, Harris, Jennings, Billups...

Sessions might be able to sneak into the top 20 if he sustain this level of play for the rest of the season. Maybe.

Dark Knight · 03-24-2012, 09:37 PM

All I'm trying to say is that Ramon is a good player, not a great player. Just like Jeremy Lin. That's all I'm trying to get at.

Anyways, the guy we should be talking about is that Steve Blake kid. He's got star written all over him.

Nites · 03-24-2012, 11:02 PM

Weird

Final Scores today

Bucks 104
Clippers 101
New York 101
Raptors 101
Mavs 101
Nets 102
Chicago 102
Houston 99

ClutchCity · 03-24-2012, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007nites

Weird

Final Scores today

Bucks 104
Clippers 101
New York 101
Raptors 101
Mavs 101
Nets 102
Chicago 102
Houston 99

I would love to see what the over/unders were for each game...

TORaptor4Ever · 03-24-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

lmao Collison is god awful. And you said Holiday twice. You named only 14 players if you really want to include Collison as part of the list. Thanks for proving my point

The thing is, when it comes to being a pure point guard, Ramon is one of the best in the business. He's a much better point guard than dudes like Collison, Holiday, Lawson, etc. There's no one thing he's amazing at, but he's pretty good in pretty much every aspect that makse up a great PG like Paul.

It I was judging by how he fit the team, I would say Ramon is better than dudes like Rondo/Westbrook because Ramon's abilities fit the Lakers' needs better.

I've certainly been guilty of getting carried away and exaggerating before so I'm going to give you a chance to rethink that statement lol....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

Oh god TORap. Let's put a wager on this, like we were SUPPOSED to when you said Lakers wouldn't finish top 4 in the west....

And they probably wouldn't have... if they had stood pat with the roster they started the season with. Remember why I DIDN'T take the wager? That's why... because I knew that if they were probably going to make some trades at the deadline that would improve the team.

As for Sessions... exactly how long have you been watching this kid? I understand that he's had a couple of good games for LA but if he really was a top 15 PG why the heck has he bounced around so much?

LOG · 03-25-2012, 12:34 AM

warriors kings pretty good game

TORaptor4Ever · 03-25-2012, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

If Jeremy Lin was a top 30 PG, how come no team knew?

Because he barely played?

I think it's safe to say that he's easily a top 30 PG right now... likely top 20. His season stats would certainly attest to that, not to mention his play since being named a starter.

LX · 03-25-2012, 09:14 AM

For the bulk of pgs in this league, everything is very situational. A lot depends on the personnel surrounding them, the style and role expected of them from the coaches, and the overall chemistry of the team. Look at Deron. Unquestionably one of the best in the game, but he really hasn't stood out. We don't see too many arguments on here about Rondo being better than Deron or not. The NBA season is a grind that effects the ups and downs of pgs perhaps more than any other position. Ultimately what separates guys is how they perform in big games and the playoffs. Outside of a handful of guys that have shown they can get it done there, just about everyone else can elevate their games to be top 20 given the right situation.

TORaptor4Ever · 03-25-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCity

That's my point TORap. It's all about opportunity. Sessions was just never in the right situation. Just like Lin. But both can be considered top 20 PGs. Although I wouldn't agree that Lin is top 20.

Sessions > Lin. Wager?

And all I'm saying is that it might be a little early to be declaring Sessions a "top PG". I was behind Lin from the beginning... but that was because people were implying that he was a complete fluke and wasn't even worthy of being a starter in this league.....

How exactly do you determine who the better player is? Stats? Team wins? Game-winning shots? It's an impossible task because there are too many variables. To be clear, I'm not against Sessions in any way... I like what I've seen so far and I think he makes the Lakers a legit contender again... I just need to see more before I rank him ahead of some of those other guys.

**Ball Don't Lie** · 03-25-2012, 11:19 AM

Sessions decision making is better right now but Lins overall game is probably better and he has more potential. I dont think either are 2nd tier type talent nor may ever be

**Ball Don't Lie** · 03-25-2012, 07:15 PM

Durant v Lebron, and MEM/LAL double header tonight. Cant wait

ERaz · 03-25-2012, 08:14 PM

OKC seems like such a bandwagon town. I bet when some lean years arrive for them, that building will be half empty.

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03-24-2012, 08:43 PM	#2126 (permalink)
TORaptor4Ever is embracing change Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 15,063 Representing:	I'd put Lin over him for now based on what I've seen.... that could change though depending on how both players finish off the season. No mention of Jose at all? Or Rubio? I think that Wall is MASSIVELY overrated right now... he's just so dumb at the PG spot. Sessions might be top 20 right now... but I don't know that we've seen enough of him yet to really put him past most of those guys in that 2nd tier that you listed. JMO.

03-24-2012, 09:17 PM	#2129 (permalink)
Dark Knight is waiting for the sun to come out so he can let his guns out. Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Electric Avenue Posts: 15,049 Representing:	There are a bunch of borderline players I could've gone with. Nelson, Felton, Collison, Harris, Jennings, Billups... Sessions might be able to sneak into the top 20 if he sustain this level of play for the rest of the season. Maybe.

03-24-2012, 09:37 PM	#2130 (permalink)
Dark Knight is waiting for the sun to come out so he can let his guns out. Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Electric Avenue Posts: 15,049 Representing:	All I'm trying to say is that Ramon is a good player, not a great player. Just like Jeremy Lin. That's all I'm trying to get at. Anyways, the guy we should be talking about is that Steve Blake kid. He's got star written all over him.

03-24-2012, 11:02 PM	#2131 (permalink)
Nites is the real deal Can't knock the Hustle Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Vancouver Posts: 11,692 Representing:	Weird Final Scores today Bucks 104 Clippers 101 New York 101 Raptors 101 Mavs 101 Nets 102 Chicago 102 Houston 99

03-25-2012, 12:34 AM	#2134 (permalink)
LOG is trying to learn tolerance, and let others believe what they want to believe. Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,208 Representing:	warriors kings pretty good game

03-25-2012, 09:14 AM	#2136 (permalink)
LX is a belly putter in a world of crotch shots In the Paint Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 23,411 Representing:	For the bulk of pgs in this league, everything is very situational. A lot depends on the personnel surrounding them, the style and role expected of them from the coaches, and the overall chemistry of the team. Look at Deron. Unquestionably one of the best in the game, but he really hasn't stood out. We don't see too many arguments on here about Rondo being better than Deron or not. The NBA season is a grind that effects the ups and downs of pgs perhaps more than any other position. Ultimately what separates guys is how they perform in big games and the playoffs. Outside of a handful of guys that have shown they can get it done there, just about everyone else can elevate their games to be top 20 given the right situation.

03-25-2012, 11:19 AM	#2138 (permalink)
Ball Don't Lie is praying Drummond doesnt haunt us forever. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,875 Representing:	Sessions decision making is better right now but Lins overall game is probably better and he has more potential. I dont think either are 2nd tier type talent nor may ever be

03-25-2012, 07:15 PM	#2139 (permalink)
Ball Don't Lie is praying Drummond doesnt haunt us forever. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,875 Representing:	Durant v Lebron, and MEM/LAL double header tonight. Cant wait

03-25-2012, 08:14 PM	#2140 (permalink)
ERaz is not a fan of DD Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 299 Representing:	OKC seems like such a bandwagon town. I bet when some lean years arrive for them, that building will be half empty.