Rumor: Irving wants out of Cleveland - Page 2
Old 01-30-2014, 05:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by woodchuck View Post
Hehe, that's pretty hilarious.

Lowry is having a better season than Kyrie, though.
No it's not. Are you two brothers?

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Old 01-30-2014, 05:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Anyway, you'd have to make that swap based on contracts (Lowry can leave), age and talent.

But they'd ask for much much more than Lowry. Besides, the Cavs don't have to make any trades. What's Kyrie going to do? He can't leave any time soon. Is he going to refuse an extension and then take the qualifying offer? No one does that. Too much money lost, too much risk.
He'll end up taking an extension and then he's under contract till 2018 at least, possibly till 2020.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fröz-d View Post
Last years stats? Go home Hansbrough you're drunk.
You are like the Raptors forum police but you're always coming up with some wacky answer to the mystery.

It's obviously not last years stats, I just made a typo. How could he score 11.5 points per game on 12 shots a game? He must have had a really horrible 2013 actually going negative in scoring




You fucked up, no big deal.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Guys I hate to burst your bubbles and I love Lowry, but if you take the question for what it is, which is would you swap those two right now, you'd have to be a vegetable not to do it. You want to say Lowry is better in every other aspect than scoring? Sure, but that's because he's twenty-seven, not twenty-one.

Really, even if we re-signed Kyle to, let's say, 4 years 44 million, I'd still take Kyrie because while we might have to pay more, he's already all-star calibre at his age and defense is something that luckily can be taught for the most part. He has scoring in spades and will develop his passing when he has teammates worth passing to.

And I'm surprised so many of you are blaming Kyrie for the poor fortunes of the Cavaliers. No dynasty team has had one player do it on his own and the Cavs have basically blanked on every pick since him and Tristan Thompson, including Dion Waiters (4th, 2012), Jared Cunningham (24th, 2012) Anthony Bennett (1st, 2013) and Sergey Karasev (19th, 2013). Just like them and the Timberwolves, they tanked properly, but chose poorly and have subsequently lost any chance they might have had to compete, let alone contend, in the next five years.

I don't blame Kyire for wanting to leave a badly managed organization. (and remember, that's the #1 reason LeBron left in the first place)
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You fucked up, no big deal.

You've been riding my arse since the day I got on here with your annoying comments trying to make me look dumb.
Is that how you go through life? looking for people to make mistakes so you can point them out? Yeeesh.

AND worst of all, every single time you have been incorrect in your context and thought process.
Pretty much making things up to fit
your creepy need to put people down.
Then when I point it out,
you don't apologize or acknowledge me.

It feels like way back in grade 4.

It's weird.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Irving is still very young - turning 22 this year. But his disinterest on the defensive end is alarming. And, somebody will most certainly throw the max at him.

In comparison to Lowry:

- Kyle has about 80 more assists but 7 less turnovers than Irving.
- Kyle's TS% is 6 points higher.
- ORTG: Kyle 122 - Irving - 109
- Win shares: Kyle 7.3 - Irving 3.8. (Kyle ranks 5th in the league in this metric).
- Kyle is a better defender and rebounder.

Geez, Lowry's agent would be smart to use these advanced stats during contract negotiations. But I digress.

Kyle's career is a great example of a player continually improving, and Irving has a lot of room to grow and improve - 6 years younger than Kyle. But will he become good enough to justify the max contract that somebody will assuredly throw his way? Kyrie is flashy, and still young, but Kyle will ultimately be cheaper, and his production on the court right now is much more meaningful.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:07 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You've been riding my arse since the day I got on here
I have?


Wow! Honestly nevery realized. I actually like you and think you're funny. Sorry dude.

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Old 01-30-2014, 07:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Anyone who would take Lowry over Irving is seriously delusional. Sample size people. Plus the fact that Kyrie is what, 22? You put Kyrie on a good team with a good coach, and he would absolutely flourish, it's just unfortunate for him he's been brought into one of the worst organizations in basketball with an absolutely horrid Head Coach, and surrounded him with parts that don't fit, as well as players who just aren't good enough to be receiving the minutes they're currently playing in the roles they're in.

It's funny how much hype Kyrie was getting in his first 2 years, while losing, and people are blaming him NOW because of the hype of Cleveland doing everything in their power to get into the playoffs, yet in trying to do so completely failed because of failed draft picks and free agent signings.

Nothing has changed from year 1-3. Cleveland still sucks, and it's not all Kyries fault they are where they are. Has he underperformed this year, based on his expectations? Sure, but look what he has around him. Even Chris Paul would have a hard time getting that team with that coach to be better than a 5-6 seed in the East if he's lucky. I mean they had Earl Clark starting at SF for them for a good majority of the season.

Kyrie will still be an up and coming star, and potential superstar 2-3 years from now, whether he's on Cleveland or not, because he IS that good. Don't let the media hype fool you. Put him on a real team with a real coach and system and watch him flourish.

I'll take 10 great years of Kyrie rather than 5 good years of Lowry every time.


Quote:
Here's a question, who here would do a Lowry for Irving trade? Just hypothetical....
Based on current contracts? Yes.
Cleveland would hang up so quickly it'd make Masais head spin, unless of course we offered some 1st round picks and one of our young players too, which I wouldnt be against if we were able to pair Kyrie with JV.

Quote:
Based on if we know we can get lowry long term.. Not so sure. I love the defensive intensity of this team and lowry is a huge part of that. Lowry at point and amir behind him is a strongly wicked defence.
Wow. Perfect example of a fan who only thinks in the now, and is a true proponent of 'what have you done for me lately'. Talk about tunnel vision.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I really dislike his lack of defense. That's on him, not his teammates. And he is going to be looking for huge contracts in those 10 years. I'm just not sure he would be the guy to hitch the wagon to.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:55 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I really dislike his lack of defense. That's on him, not his teammates. And he is going to be looking for huge contracts in those 10 years. I'm just not sure he would be the guy to hitch the wagon to.
His defence is porous, I agree, I don't want to make any excuses for that part of his game because that's where he needs to improve the most. He's only in his 3rd year though, and there's no reason why he won't be able to improve as he gets older and gains more experience, like any other young player.

I agree that he likely wont be THE guy who leads a team to the Finals, because there's only 2 guys in the NBA that can be that guy right now, but if you surround him with a really good supporting cast, or pair him with someone on or near the same level as him, and that team will take off. He'd be worth max money IMO, as long as he isn't given the surrounding parts that Cleveland has provided him with for the past 3 years, as again, there's hardly any players that would be able to carry that amount of crap to anything.
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:43 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I would make the trade no question!

We could Trade

Lowry
Amir
Ross

4

Irving & the 2 Canadians plus a pick

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
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he seems like the type of guy that would go to NY or L.A. He likes the spotlight. With that being said, he has huge potential to be a superstar and had to deal with the shitty draft picks cleveland made recently. I would def give up lowry for him if he committed here
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:08 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Cleveland needs to get their shit together. They have had the #1 pick 3 out of the last 10 years, they should have a dynasty with all those picks. No pitty what so ever.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:36 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fröz-d View Post
You are basing your thoughts on imagination
and feeling... not facts.

Irving is WAY over rated.

Look at this years stats, Kyle Lowry literally beats him in EVER single category, except he gets about 17 ppg vs. Irvings 21.5
but Lowry takes about 12 shots a game while Irving takes about 19. If Lowry took the same amount of shots he would be nearer to 20 ppg. Lowry plays INCREDIBLE d, he's become a true leader, and he would cost a lot less.
Irving is injury prone and far from a proven leader in any way.

Have you watched Lowry play lately? It's 2014 bud
While Lowry is having a great season we all tend to forget that this is a contract year. He has been putting up big numbers and have had great games but it's not like the dude was killing it in the last 4 years or so. He was very inconsistent prior to that. Irving is younger with higher ceiling and can thrive in the right situation. I am looking at the big picture, and won't be too upset if we trade him.
Also, they are in mess for multiple reasons including drafting the wrong players, but Irving isn't one of them.
Moving forward I would have no problem doing Lowry for Irving trade.

Last edited by Tommy C; 01-31-2014 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I love Lowry but last I checked - Kyrie turns 22 this year while Kyle turns 28. Last I checked Kyle is a UFA while Kyrie is signed on to next year and then can be a RFA. I would deal Kyle for Kyrie.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:17 AM   #36 (permalink)
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And I don't think he will be back next year. People try to speculate the teams that are might be interested, but the bottom line is that he can sign anywhere while teams can work on traded or waive/ Amnesty players after they sign him or go into luxury tax if it's a contender. The bottom line, he is a 28 y/o free agent while Irving is 22 and hasn't even got close to reach his ceiling.

Last edited by Tommy C; 01-31-2014 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:34 AM   #37 (permalink)
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3 years with a crap team and already looking to leave for greener pastures.....

Makes Bosh and Lebron look like saints now doesn't it?
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:12 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Irwing -> Miami Heat
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:15 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Lol the majority of this forum had the Cavs above the Raps in the standings and a lock for the playoffs.

And now Irving's right for wanting out??
They have too much talent to be this bad...
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:21 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
His defence is porous, I agree, I don't want to make any excuses for that part of his game because that's where he needs to improve the most. He's only in his 3rd year though, and there's no reason why he won't be able to improve as he gets older and gains more experience, like any other young player.

I agree that he likely wont be THE guy who leads a team to the Finals, because there's only 2 guys in the NBA that can be that guy right now, but if you surround him with a really good supporting cast, or pair him with someone on or near the same level as him, and that team will take off. He'd be worth max money IMO, as long as he isn't given the surrounding parts that Cleveland has provided him with for the past 3 years, as again, there's hardly any players that would be able to carry that amount of crap to anything.
Quote:
Cleveland Cavaliers

Projected Starters: Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, Earl Clark, Tristan Thompson, Andrew Bynum(inj?)
Rotation players: Jarrett Jack, CJ Miles, Alonzo Gee, Anthony Bennett, Anderson Varejao, Tyler Zeller


Key Additions: Andrew Bynum, Anthony Bennett, Jarrett Jack, Earl Clark


OUTLOOK:

The Cavaliers had a very good offseason, in adding one of the best 6th men in the NBA, and a lot of frontcourt depth and talent. They needed an infusion of talent in the frontcourt to be able to combat the inevitable injuries to Varejao, and likely many missed games from Bynum. Even if both players are out at the same time, they will now still have a solid 4 man rotation of Clark, Bennett, Thompson, and Zeller to be able to play solid extended minutes if need be. I don't think there's any doubt that this team will be in the playoffs this season with Kyrie leading the way, but their success in terms of what seed they'll be will determined by Waiters growth as a player, in my opinion, as he would make them a much better team if he would commit to the defensive side of the ball, and stop taking so many bad shots on offence. If he doesn't, I don't think Mike Brown will hesitate to play Jack 30+ minutes per game, but in doing so, Cleveland will suffer as teams will exploit their lack of height in the backcourt.
Sorry, but at the beginning it didn't seem as they C's was such an amount of crap. They have added even Deng....
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