Players call their own fouls - Page 2
Old 11-23-2012, 06:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Hell no. I hate playing without refs. Yes the refs miss a bunch of shit, and call you for shit calls sometimes. But basketball moves so fast, I can't remember if I get hit or not sometimes. Usually if I eat shit, then I know somebody fouled me. Then whiney babies call a foul on me after I clean their clock with a wicked block. It's like shut-up meng, stop crying, all ball wussy. You need refs in there to calm the adrenaline flow.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Renihan_00 View Post
That isn't even a valid argument.

There is NO referee in this case and they have no review system.
Lol how is not? In pick up ball you don't have refs but the foul system would be the same. You'd have players who think they got fouled on every play, players who think they never foul others, and at least a fight every game. The game loses all objectivity that way.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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ill call all my fouls, and make all my freethrows
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Lol how is not? In pick up ball you don't have refs but the foul system would be the same. You'd have players who think they got fouled on every play, players who think they never foul others, and at least a fight every game. The game loses all objectivity that way.
There is no loss of objectivity, if there is a dispute it can be looked at a ruled on by the refs. So now they are unable to initiate the process, they only get involved in a dispute.

You would think twice about being a player that "think they got fouled on every play" because after being consistently wrong and costing your team a number of points you would be have to be an idiot to continue.

You'd only continue calling them if you were right, in which case they should be being called anyways!
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Renihan_00 View Post
There is no loss of objectivity, if there is a dispute it can be looked at a ruled on by the refs. So now they are unable to initiate the process, they only get involved in a dispute.

You would think twice about being a player that "think they got fouled on every play" because after being consistently wrong and costing your team a number of points you would be have to be an idiot to continue.

You'd only continue calling them if you were right, in which case they should be being called anyways!
Is there a penalty for being wrong? If there is, that kind of defeats the purpose of being fouled. If not, nothing would deter players from calling fouls. And imagine how choppy the game would be, especially if refs have to sort out every disagreement, not to mention there would be a disagreement on almost every play.

Also imagine how offensive fouls would work, charge is the hardest play to call for a ref, imagine for a player taking a charge. I'm assuming your not including this, but if you are it would be a huge problem. Which actually brings into question which fouls can be called, what about on the floor fouls, when players think it's a shooting foul? Way too many problems.

Last edited by Blaze; 11-26-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:39 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Is there a penalty for being wrong? If there is, that kind of defeats the purpose of being fouled. If not, nothing would deter players from calling fouls. And imagine how choppy the game would be, especially if refs have to sort out every disagreement, not to mention there would be a disagreement on almost every play.

Also imagine how offensive fouls would work, charge is the hardest play to call for a ref, imagine for a player taking a charge. I'm assuming your not including this, but if you are it would be a huge problem. Which actually brings into question which fouls can be called, what about on the floor fouls, when players think it's a shooting foul? Way too many problems.
Yes my initial post suggested that there needs to be a penalty for challenging the foul and being wrong.

You can call as many fouls as you want but you better be right or else you are going to be challenged and you will lose points for your team (or whatever you penalty is determined to curb the behavior)

Someone else mentioned the charge thing, I haven't considered it in detail but it is something that remains to be addressed.

There is still going to be ref discretion once there is a play that is disputed but it limits the ref involvement until that time.

Hey can't agree on the floor? Go to the arbitrator. Decision is final.

When you mention disagreements among refs, it's a red herring because that is still a problem that exists currently. This would not change that.

Would it make the game choppy? MAYBE! I agree with you that you would need to find a way to ensure ref decisions are fast.

I would argue that it would make the game less choppy (after a choppy clusterfuck putting it in) because players WILL be scared to call fouls and that potentially will lower the number of ticky-tacky fouls, superstar calls and game stoppages

Last edited by Renihan_00; 11-27-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Absolutely would never work. Not a chance.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:21 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Absolutely would never work. Not a chance.
Why?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Renihan_00 View Post
Yes my initial post suggested that there needs to be a penalty for challenging the foul and being wrong.

You can call as many fouls as you want but you better be right or else you are going to be challenged and you will lose points for your team (or whatever you penalty is determined to curb the behavior)

Someone else mentioned the charge thing, I haven't considered it in detail but it is something that remains to be addressed.

There is still going to be ref discretion once there is a play that is disputed but it limits the ref involvement until that time.

Hey can't agree on the floor? Go to the arbitrator. Decision is final.

When you mention disagreements among refs, it's a red herring because that is still a problem that exists currently. This would not change that.

Would it make the game choppy? MAYBE! I agree with you that you would need to find a way to ensure ref decisions are fast.

I would argue that it would make the game less choppy (after a choppy clusterfuck putting it in) because players WILL be scared to call fouls and that potentially will lower the number of ticky-tacky fouls, superstar calls and game stoppages
What's the point of a foul? It's so that when someone gets hit they have a fair chance to get their points. Now you put in a pentally for calling a foul, it defeats the purpose of foul. You think that players would only start calling fouls when they actually get hit, but you seem to be forgetting that players think they get fouled but are simply wrong. This isn't going to prevent people from calling fouls.

Also it gives players more power in a game, meaning more dispute between them and the refs. There is no way the game will be less choppy, no matter the penalty players will still argue for calls. Look at technical fouls, players argue even though there not getting the call changed. Imagine what it would be like if now those same players had the power to make calls. Players like DeMarcus Cousins and Blake Griffin wouldn't even touch the floor because of how much they claim to get fouled and argue with the refs. You say they'd learn but DeMarcus Cousins' career isn't going anywhere because of this inability. In a league like you imagine it would be worse.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #30 (permalink)
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No way.. But maybe if they would have something like nfl where coach have 3 chalanges of certain calls could be possible.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by INSIDER View Post
having an independant body auditing the refs would work... i'm all for that.

i think the fact that the refs work for the NBA makes the curruption conspiracy theories even more powerful. what does the NBA gain from having its superstar teams winning and making the playoffs? Everything.
what does an outside employer gain from having a small market team win and the superstar teams lose? nothing at all.
I think they should go in the direction of MMA and have the ref's make a commission outside of the NBA.
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