Is the NBA turning into MLB?
Old 05-15-2010, 09:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is the NBA turning into MLB?

MLB has been ruined by the handful of teams (NY, Boston, L.A. etc) that go way over the salary cap and hoard all the good players. The top 8 out of 30 are really only the real teams with a chance of success.

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MLB Salaries - CBSSports.com

1. New York Yankees $206,333,389
2. Boston Red Sox $162,747,333
3. Chicago Cubs $146,859,000
4. Philadelphia Phillies $141,927,381
5. New York Mets $132,701,445
6. Detroit Tigers $122,864,929
7. Chicago White Sox $108,273,197
8. Los Angeles Angels $105,013,667
Is the NBA going down the same road?

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2009-2010 Team Payroll’s | The Hoop Doctors

LA Lakers ~ 91.4
Utah Jazz ~ 84.7
Boston Celtics ~ 82.2
Cleveland Cavaliers ~ 79.9
San Antonio Spurs ~ 78.3
Orlando Magic ~ 77.9
Washington Wizards ~ 77.8
Dallas Mavericks ~ 75.5
A quick look at that list and you have your three of your Final Four and the rest (minus Washington) are all viable teams. PS. Suns are at $61 mill.

Raptors Related: All this talk about CB4 staying or going should be a mute point IF we want to compete.

Raps are at $61 Mill WITH Bosh. If we want to compete it looks like we need to spend $80ish. Thats $20 mill more which means yet another franchise player.

Or do we just accept that we will be a feeder team for the league like the Blue Jays and just give up?
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Man, the Wizards are at 77Mil?? Piss Poor!! Anyway, we're in ok shape imo if MLSE is willing to spend 75-80Mil , like that's gonna happen! BTW, since when does baseball have a cap? They have tax a threshold but no actual set cap, or am I wrong?
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
BTW, since when does baseball have a cap? They have tax a threshold but no actual set cap, or am I wrong?
Really, whats the difference? If the NBA had a "cap" then the Lakers wouldnt have been able to sign Gasol. Or the Cavs, Jamison. Or the Mavs, Marion.

Go over the cap or threshold, and you pay dollar for dollar in tax....which is pennies for these rich teams.
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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A dollar for dollar tax isn't pennies, no matter who you are. If you're going into the luxury tax it better result in playoff wins or you're looking at a VERY expensive decision.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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A dollar for dollar tax isn't pennies, no matter who you are. If you're going into the luxury tax it better result in playoff wins or you're looking at a VERY expensive decision.
Dude..really...

These guys are BILLIONAIRES...that a Thousand Million.

Lakers paid approx $35 mill in tax.

To a Billionaire, thats like $3.50 from a $100. Peanuts.

Sure you and me have to cash in all our beer bottles to collect $35 mill, but it's nothing to these guys.

Do we need a "hard cap" to keep the league competitive?
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Whether the luxury tax is high price to each individual owner is a relative thing, but a 100% tax is what it is. You've got millionaires in Canada crying about the 30% income tax rate, when their net income after all is said and done is 5 or 6 times what the average Canadian makes. The wealthiest people also tend to be the thriftiest, ironically enough; you pay a dollar for dollar tax and your bottom line is taking a serious hit. Wealthy owners aren't just going into the tax for kicks, it's calculated.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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Originally Posted by Raptorman View Post
Really, whats the difference? If the NBA had a "cap" then the Lakers wouldnt have been able to sign Gasol. Or the Cavs, Jamison. Or the Mavs, Marion.

Go over the cap or threshold, and you pay dollar for dollar in tax....which is pennies for these rich teams.
That's why you have to be scared about this Russian guy coming in as new owner of the Nets. He seems like a proud guy who will be willing to spend big money, even lose money every year to have a successful team. So expect them to throw big money at free agents in the future, maybe even this year. Just what we need...another to add to the list of high roller teams.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that this new owner says, To open the vault now?... giving Lebron and/or Wade and/or Bosh or whoever whatever they want to come into Brooklyn with Jay-Z and all the other parasites.

Are people aware just how much money this new owner has?...Net worth, $14 billion

Last edited by Ammo; 05-15-2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ammo View Post

Are people aware just how much money this new owner has?
Quote:
Prokhorov is one of the richest men in Russia and the 39th richest man in the world according to the 2010 Forbes list with an estimated fortune of $13.4 billion
Source: Mikhail Prokhorov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To put it in to perspective, he has:

$13,400,000,000

He paid $300,000,000 for the team....or 4% of his wealth. That means going over the cap $30 Mill is .4% of his wealth.

Agreed. Such a rich owner with the current system should scare everyone.

We need a HARD cap NOW to stop people from using the NBA as a hobby toy.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, if you want to know how "foreigner rich owner and low profile team" works you should just take a look at english football Premier League.
Just this year Roman Abramovich's Chelsea won both Premier League and FA cup. He started spending big money some years ago and now nobody consider him or his team something different than any other.
Same attempt is being made by i don't remember wich arabian oil super rich who bought Manchester's second team and trying to get good players there.
Many peolpe were questioning about this kind of initiatives, but after a while nobody cares.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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Originally Posted by Raptorman View Post
Source: Mikhail Prokhorov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To put it in to perspective, he has:

$13,400,000,000

He paid $300,000,000 for the team....or 4% of his wealth. That means going over the cap $30 Mill is .4% of his wealth.

Agreed. Such a rich owner with the current system should scare everyone.

We need a HARD cap NOW to stop people from using the NBA as a hobby toy.
Yes, paying the luxury tax to him would be that feeling most of us get when we drop a nickle and ponder whether to pick it up.

He could conceivably make a big splash by signing 2 or 3 of the biggest free agents and adding to Brooks Lopez, etc. A lot of that would come back to the team in popularity, merchandise, ticket sales, TV, the move to Brooklyn. It's not a fair fight. Between Prokhorv and Jay Z, they could have Beyonce and 3 Russian, *er*, dancers at Bosh's house at midnight, July 1st to plead their case.

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Old 05-15-2010, 01:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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heh.

everyone hates rich owners.... until they got one.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
That's why you have to be scared about this Russian guy coming in as new owner of the Nets. He seems like a proud guy who will be willing to spend big money, even lose money every year to have a successful team. So expect them to throw big money at free agents in the future, maybe even this year. Just what we need...another to add to the list of high roller teams.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that this new owner says, To open the vault now?... giving Lebron and/or Wade and/or Bosh or whoever whatever they want to come into Brooklyn with Jay-Z and all the other parasites.

Are people aware just how much money this new owner has?...Net worth, $14 billion
it doesn't matter how much money you have, you can't just throw money at free agents to go over the cap or tax. the cap prevents it. it is impossible to just sign guys beyond that cap figure. if you have no salaries on a team at all, you can sign 3 max guys and have no one on your team worth more than the minimum, and one guy at the mle, lle, etc. that's the most you can do in free agency, and any team can do that since there is no tax involved.

it is almost impossible to be starting from a team salary of 0, so signing more than 2 max guys would be extremely rare at worst.

the only danger posed by a super rich owner is stockpiling young guys on rookie scale deals and then paying all of them to go over the cap, or trading to acquire dudes and then paying them big money after the trade is done and their current deal expires. this is, indeed, a real possibility, but it is not the same thing as a rich owner throwing big money at free agents. that salary cap is in place precisely to prevent that from happening.

Last edited by 'trane; 05-15-2010 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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Yes, what is scary is that there will be one more king pin team among those described at the top of this thread. Another Mark Cuban type, but with even more money, and in the east does not bode well for those hoping to be good enough teams while being frugal.
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Old 05-15-2010, 03:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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And what is ultra-responsible Utah doing 2nd in salaries in the league?
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Old 05-15-2010, 04:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I would say a big part of the problem is that there are too many teams willing to do salary dumps with no intention of being competitive. So it's a bit different than MLB. But the overall effect is pretty similar. A few teams are able to take advantage of the bad situations with the rest.

BC said the Raps were buyers and not sellers. We'll see. I think to attract high price talent here to start with, even through trades, we'd need a Bosh and we'd need to overspend like Utah has. Without that we might as well join up with the rest of the feeder system.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Wow, this was an eye opening post. The correlation between salary and standings is very strong. I don't anticipate this trend ending after the new CBA so it's time the Raptors organization ponied up the money. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't do so this past year, which was make or break in terms of keeping their franchise player.

Thanks OP!
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
And what is ultra-responsible Utah doing 2nd in salaries in the league?
Actually they were under 75 million
HoopsHype - NBA Salaries
The reason is they signed Milsap on a team option of 10.3 whose salary drops to 6.2 in 2010/11
They expected Boozer to go as a free agent on a player option he chose to resign at 12.65 million.

I personally think the NBA should be run as business that profit and stability of the league should be the goal.The small market clubs should have a equal chance at getting into the playoffs and winning a championship as the big market clubs. That will give the overall stability of the league. Toronto in reality should be the biggest of the big market teams afterall they represent a nation rather than a city or a state.

Even as a city Torinto is a bigger market than the vast majority of teams.
But the problem is the owners with the extra money to get the huge vsalaries who are not concerned with a bottom line and treat it as a hobby.
Paul Allen at least has kept the Portand club at a modest rate even though he can outspend any owner as a vanity project.

A hard cap is required with any team over the cap unable to get draft picks until they reach the cap.
Also that contracts are not garanteed somewhat like the NFL.

Or a salary hard cap of 45 million and allow them to sign one player at what ever amount they want. The maximum number of players capped at 12 and make the D league a real development league with players being put on option to go down or rookies in the draft able to build a resume in the minors.
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Raptorman View Post
MLB has been ruined by the handful of teams (NY, Boston, L.A. etc) that go way over the salary cap and hoard all the good players. The top 8 out of 30 are really only the real teams with a chance of success.



Is the NBA going down the same road?



A quick look at that list and you have your three of your Final Four and the rest (minus Washington) are all viable teams. PS. Suns are at $61 mill.

Raptors Related: All this talk about CB4 staying or going should be a mute point IF we want to compete.

Raps are at $61 Mill WITH Bosh. If we want to compete it looks like we need to spend $80ish. Thats $20 mill more which means yet another franchise player.

Or do we just accept that we will be a feeder team for the league like the Blue Jays and just give up?
Except that the division leaders in the American League presently are: Tampa Bay, Minnesota and Texas, none of which are on your list. Also the Blue Jays are hardly a feeder team for the rest of the league, they have a better record than Boston right now.
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Except that the division leaders in the American League presently are: Tampa Bay, Minnesota and Texas, none of which are on your list. Also the Blue Jays are hardly a feeder team for the rest of the league, they have a better record than Boston right now.
They had a great record last season at this time as well. Yet they ended up being a feeder team. We'll end up there again. Give it another month or so. Boston will go up and the Jays will start to sink.
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