NBA attendance
Old 12-07-2010, 09:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Empty seats. We see them so much nowadays.

Philadelphia, Indiana, Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte, New Jersey, Washington, Atlanta.... Teams are playing in half filled arenas in those towns.

I know the economy is bad in many places across the US, but clearly there is a problem in the NBA when so many of your markets are not drawing the fans in. Be it ticket prices, market damend, the economy... there is a big problem in my eyes. Especially in supposed basketball hot-spots.

I remember when Philly beat us in that second round game 7 and someone had a sign that said something like "toronto is not just a hockey town anymore". Uhhh i got news for you 76er fans, you guys aren't much of a basketball town.

here's an interesting article from yahoo. looks at the numbers and guess what the NHL actually has better attendance than the NBA.

NHL vs. NBA: Hockey winning in attendance, fan enthusiasm? - Puck Daddy - NHL - Yahoo! Sports
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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NHL has more fanatical markets
they have 10 markets that will sell out every years, NBA only has a 3-4 guarantees

but NBA gets a lot more revenue from television whereas the NHL is more gate dependent
they might offer more things to get butts in seats
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Very interesting read.

I'll post thoughts on this later.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to debate which is more successful windex. NHL has serious marketability issues i know that.

I'm just saying the NBA doesn't look like it's heading in the right direction as far as fan suuport is concerned. Too many arenas look empty. For such a supposedly in demand and popular product, it doesn't make sense.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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big markets in NBA (Detroit, Philly, Wiz) have bad teams
big markets in hockey (NY, LA, Boston, Chicago, DC, Detroit, Philly) all have decent teams
add the 6 canadian teams, Sabres, Wild and Penguins who've been selling out for years, or pretty close to it
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'll say one thing. 30 teams are too much in one league. There are a number of problems that inevitably come as a result of this all of which (however bad) are trumped by cash flow.

Quality suffers at the cost of Quantity.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
I'm not trying to debate which is more successful windex. NHL has serious marketability issues i know that.

I'm just saying the NBA doesn't look like it's heading in the right direction as far as fan suuport is concerned. Too many arenas look empty. For such a supposedly in demand and popular product, it doesn't make sense.
maybe its the availability on TV
I think NHL teams are more creative with their marketing
tickets can be cheaper but if you look at an NBA team having trouble putting bums in seats their prices are down too

could be an unsolved mystery right now, but I think it has to do with some of the bigger arenas and bigger markets not doing so well
NHL started doing better when the Hawks, Kings, DC, Philly turned their franchises around

Last edited by Windex; 12-07-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Whats your point.

Maybe...... people like Hockey?

it's fun. Its fast. The players aren't babies.

And the real reason..... parity.

After the lockout teams stated to even out, all teams are competitive to a point, even the crappers like the leafs. No night is an easy night, and this makes for exciting games, and exciting seasons.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
big markets in NBA (Detroit, Philly, Wiz) have bad teams
big markets in hockey (NY, LA, Boston, Chicago, DC, Detroit, Philly) all have decent teams
add the 6 canadian teams, Sabres, Wild and Penguins who've been selling out for years, or pretty close to it
It's more over exposure of both sports and a watered down product.

Right now, the NHL is more interesting from a simple competitive stand point as it's following the NFL model of parity (rightly or wrongly). You could say that on any given year your team has a shot to do something. Take a look at the lower seeds that have done well in the NHL playoffs. It's become an almost yearly occurrence and people love watching the underdog.

In the NBA it's become too predictable. Right away we could name the top 4-6 teams in each conference. Maybe not their standings, but we know that Boston, Miami, Orlando and Atlanta (if healthy) are your top 4 East teams and the West it's Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets/OKC, Utah.

Really, in the playoffs, what shot does, say Milwaukee have against Boston? Small. Hockey? Well, last season you had a Montreal beat both the top seeds to get to the ECF. Hell, no one thought they'd make it into the playoffs. It's compelling television. And people and fans LOVE interesting, compelling stories.

Add into it, that the NHL has done a wonderful job of marketing (the Winter Classic is a GREAT idea) and you could see why they're a stable league. ESPN barely covers them and there's a few theories that because they don't own coverage they don't show because the coverage belongs to competitors. If ESPN had ANY coverage, things could be different.

There are problems that plague both leagues, specifically, there are too many teams and the NHL LOVES thinking it's larger than it is and place teams in markets that can't handle it. If the NHL ever realized that needs to essentially keep things in the northern markets and have teams in Portland, Seattle, Quebec City and Winnipeg and remove joke franchises like Atlanta, Phoenix and Tampa they'd be better for it.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Both leagues ar oversaturated with teams IMO. the more i think about this the more it just makes sense. 5-6 teams in each league just need to go away. In hockey it's obvious which teams need to go, but in NBA it's more debatable i guess. Why is 30 the magical number anyways? too big.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I blame Lebron.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I blame Lebron.


Yes! Because if the villagers aren't showing up to the sporting games, it's the King's fault. Right? Damn King...

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I blame Lebron.
Well marketing people like Lebron and then blowing them up into these God-types probably has hurt do a degree. Especially when they turn out to be spoiled punks with a sense of entitlement who believe they are bigger than their teams. I know it's turned me off somewhat. then again i am probably in the minority.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I know it's turned me off somewhat. then again i am probably in the minority.
The attendance figures seem to be counter-intuitive to that sentiment.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
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then again i am probably in the minority.
i'd say you're not
in fact i'd say the overall attitude of most NBA players has turned off a LOT of fans
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The attendance in Miami game after game has been shocking to me. I realize that most of the empty seats in Miami are sold...but it's super lame.

Before the return to Cleveland last week they showed a montage of Lebron throwing the rosin in the air. For everyone of the Cleveland games it showed, the stands were full and the crowd was going wild when he did it...good way to start the game. Then they showed all of the Miami home games this year. The stands were half empty and nobody even got off of their feet.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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ok - hang on now - but Lebron and company just set records for ratings last week.

If fans are really turned off would they not actually turn off the TV?

I suspect that HD television makes going to games a bit of a questionable choice. They need to do something with the live game experience. High ticket prices probably do not help much either.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Whats your point.

Maybe...... people like Hockey?

it's fun. Its fast. The players aren't babies.

And the real reason..... parity.

After the lockout teams stated to even out, all teams are competitive to a point, even the crappers like the leafs. No night is an easy night, and this makes for exciting games, and exciting seasons.
And I think that is probably going to change. Perhaps you could call Donaghy the saviour of basketball. Ever since that whole fiasco there been small steps to shed the idea that the league office prefers one team to win over the other by introducing more officials, and younger officials into the league. Trying to implement rules eliminating unacceptable behaviour by all players instead of a select few players is a step in the right direction as well.

Also, from what I see, there are a lot of good young teams in the NBA, we saw one of them in the Pacers last night.

The NBA got really young, but now alot of these young guys are starting to really understand the game and we are seeing some really good teams develop, not just individual players. Im really excited about this league right now and I think/hope we'll see a few suprises in the next 3-4 years win the championship.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ok - hang on now - but Lebron and company just set records for ratings last week.

If fans are really turned off would they not actually turn off the TV?

I suspect that HD television makes going to games a bit of a questionable choice. They need to do something with the live game experience. High ticket prices probably do not help much either.
Agreed, if tickets (and everything) were just friggin' cheaper, no one would have problems selling out games.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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ok - hang on now - but Lebron and company just set records for ratings last week.

If fans are really turned off would they not actually turn off the TV?

I suspect that HD television makes going to games a bit of a questionable choice. They need to do something with the live game experience. High ticket prices probably do not help much either.
I agree that the main issue is TV. you can watch all games you want sitting in your armchair. here in europe is the same with football (soccer) stadiums are half empty (at least in Italy) 'cause you can see every game on Tv. sure think soccer is different, in winter you have to sit in open air with rain snow and cold, while basketball is played indoor. As for the NBA if you're a fan rarely you have a team in your city so you have to travel and of course you can't do this every game, and even if you have a team in your city maybe you can't go every home game. And abuot to much teams consider the in the USA population is over 300 millions so maybe 30teams are not too much.
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