Lockout official - Page 9
Old 09-07-2011, 09:15 PM   #161 (permalink)
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I guess that is a good sign.

But who knows, they could just be bullshitting.
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Old 09-08-2011, 06:20 PM   #162 (permalink)
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Utah center Al Jefferson got a bigger check then Lebron James. Therefore, we got ourselves a nasty owner's strike. Too many guys takin' paycuts to play for winning squads. This is what ended the 1994 MLB season. Serious stuff meng, sure hope they can figure something out.
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:19 PM   #163 (permalink)
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NEW YORK -- A month from now, when the NBA either will be killing a portion of the 2011-12 season or basking in the glow of training camps, we'll be able to look back on Sept. 7 as a significant date one way or another.

Either the strange, secretive vibe that permeated the lobby of a midtown hotel -- another new venue for the talks, not divulged to reporters -- was created to camouflage progress or was little more than a false positive on the litmus test for hope.

Since I'm on record -- and in the minority -- predicting that the lockout would be resolved without collateral damage to the regular-season schedule, I offer the reasons to interpret Wednesday's strange bargaining session as hopeful. And maybe even very much so.

• Both league officials and those from the National Basketball Players Association expressed surprise that reporters were able to determine the location of the high-level bargaining session, which the parties had vowed not to divulge. To my personal knowledge, neither did. The reason for the secrecy? Both sides believe public rhetoric could be damaging to the bargaining work that is beginning to progress, if by no other evidence than the fact that the league and players will meet again Thursday -- the first back-to-back sessions of the lockout -- and possibly Friday, too. For there to be concern about damaging the process, there would have to be something worth damaging. As to the assembled scribes' ability to sniff out the one hotel among hundreds and hundreds on the island of Manhattan where the meeting was taking place ... well, what do they think we do?

• Among the small circle of figures speaking publicly on the talks, all have adopted the talking point first espoused by commissioner David Stern back in June -- that nothing has been agreed on until everything has been agreed on. To the optimistic mind, this would suggest that some things have been agreed on and nobody's saying so. When queried on whether the Aug. 31 meeting and this week's sudden flurry of talks indicate momentum, NBPA president Derek Fisher admitted, "I guess that would be a fair assumption. But like I said, until we get this deal done, it's tough to try to characterize it or put a read on what means what in terms of on a daily basis."

Until we get this deal done? That shift away from emphasizing the distance between the parties and the efforts to "get this deal done" would seem to indicate that there is a deal to get done. Fisher, whose speech patterns are at once precise and difficult to interpret, also spoke of getting the deal done as though it were a matter of when, not if.

"For our players and for the team owners -- and probably most importantly out of respect for the people that support our game, our fans -- it's just not appropriate to continue to discuss things openly and publicly based on specific deal points," Fisher said. "It really is best to keep those things internal. That's what these meetings are for. That's why we've all been either voted or chosen to be in the positions we're in and those discussions should stay in that forum. And once the deal is done, of course the specifics will come out. We'll all know what the agreement is and then we'll build from there. But from this point forward, it's really important to focus on just the deal and not the semantics and the rhetoric."

• Unless, of course, you're sending a direct message or text intended for a private audience to thousands of followers publicly on Twitter. This appears to have been what happened to Roger Mason of the Knicks, a member of the players' executive committee. Mason, who did not attend the bargaining session Wednesday, tweeted shortly thereafter, "Looking like a season. how u." After getting bombarded with inquiries about the tweet, Mason promptly deleted it and claimed his account had been hacked. Looking back a month from now, Mason either will go down as the latest public figure victimized by evil, indiscriminate Twitter hackers, or the one who broke the story that the lockout was all but over. How u? We'll see.

• New parties were on hand Wednesday whose presence could indicate a progression of the talks to nitty-gritty areas. On hand for the league was deputy general counsel Dan Rube, the league office's foremost expert on salary cap mechanics and player contracts. Could his presence have indicated an emphasis on specific system issues the owners and players are trying to resolve? Stern brushed off the notion of reading any such thing into Rube's appearance, but his role in the process is what it is. For the union, rejoining the talks were outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler -- who played the role of Mariano Rivera in closing the deal for the NFL and its players union -- and economist Kevin Murphy, whose input would be needed to decipher predictions of revenue growth in the out years of a new CBA.

• Finally, take the dry, terse and yet playfully jovial demeanor of Stern, who did nearly all the talking for the league Wednesday and said the least of anyone. It was Stern who first dropped the talking point about there being no deal on anything until there was a deal on everything, and on Wednesday, he seemed to wear that credo and his self-imposed muzzle with pride.

"I've agreed to neither portray optimism nor pessimism, just to tell you I can't say anything," Stern said. "And that's what I'm doing. ... We know we have a real problem to solve and there's nothing personal about it. It's going to be about problem solving. If we can, we can. If we can't, we can't. But we've agreed not to talk about it."

Stern did publicly disclose for the first time a deadline for when a deal needs to be achieved to avoid canceling training camps and preseason games: Sept. 28, if you take Stern at his carefully crafted, lawyerly word.

"We have three weeks," he said, when asked if there was enough time to reach an agreement before such collateral damage. Training camps are scheduled to open the first week of October.

"Time is running down, not necessarily out," Fisher said. "But I think we all know in the room that if we continue to work at it, we can possibly find a way to get a deal done."

Hush-hush labor meeting means there might be progress - NBA - CBSSports.com Basketball
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:36 PM   #164 (permalink)
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quite intresting. i particulourly liked the notice on fisher's words. could be a reporter grasping for straws in a news-less basketball world or he could really be onto something. time will tell. i for one, for once, feel somewhat optimistic. my personal predicition, which could very well end up being horribly wrong by the way, is that the league will end up having a shortened training camp, but not a shortened season. "knock on wood"
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:00 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Blazers be gunnin' for a title. I'm gonna get pissed if the League throws in the towel
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:21 PM   #166 (permalink)
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As the owners and players have been negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement, there has been no formal movement on the two topics that have dominated the talks, split of revenues and the cap system.

The owners could make a formal proposal on Tuesday, which would be the first in the negotiations since players added a sixth year to their proposal on June 30th.

"The reality is, until one side or the other is ready to make significant movement, nothing is going to happen," one of the people briefed on the talks said.
Possible Tuesday Proposal From Owners Could Begin Significant Movement - RealGM Wiretap

Shift toward NBA's future makes Silver, Fisher key negotiators - NBA - CBSSports.com Basketball
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:04 PM   #167 (permalink)
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NBA Labor: Talks Fail to Make Progress - ABC News

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Stern and Silver countered that the union insisted the current soft cap system remain exactly as it is before they would agree to discuss anything else.

"Frankly, we're having trouble understanding why the label of a hard cap is what's breaking apart these negotiations right now, and that's what we discussed for a long time as a committee and then discussed together with the players," said Silver, his voice rising as he spoke.
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Though owners are seeking an overhaul of the league's financial system after saying they lost $300 million last season and hundreds of millions more in each year of the previous collective bargaining agreement, the salary cap appears to have emerged as the biggest obstacle to a new deal.

The current system allows teams to exceed the ceiling through the use of various exceptions if they are willing to pay a luxury tax, giving big-market teams such as the Lakers — who can take on added payroll — an advantage over the little guys
I wasn't playin ya'll. The Lakers have burrowed themselves into the voice of reason in the Playa's Union Committee. And they are currently throwing a hissy-fit for not being able to cheat and buy championships.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:40 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Offering everything?? What are they offering exactly? What an ignorant fuck!

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DeAndre Jordan openly questioned the negotiating tactics of the players' union on Tuesday.

"How come WE aren't asking for anything, but offering THEM everything!!?!! That's our strategy?" wrote Jordan on Twitter.

Jordan will be one of the most highly coveted restricted free agents of this offseason
DeAndre Jordan Questions Union Negotiating Tactics - RealGM Wiretap


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Old 09-14-2011, 10:23 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Well, if he keeps saying the right things, he might get called up to L.A.'s A team.
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:51 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Offering everything?? What are they offering exactly? What an ignorant fuck!



DeAndre Jordan Questions Union Negotiating Tactics - RealGM Wiretap


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NBA union faces test of strength - NBA - Yahoo! Canada Sports

Well, according to this article the players have been offering a much lower revenue split amount, probably close to the 50/50 the owners want, and the owners haven't offered anything back. So who's ignorant?

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Once again, the union had made an offer of significant concessions. And once again, it wouldn’t matter. New system, new rules, new day for the owners. And after all that time, the NBA’s message was numbing: Yes, we want the favorable split of revenue percentages the players are offering … and still we want it within our new system. Hard salary cap. Non-guaranteed contracts. Rollbacks on current deals.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:10 PM   #171 (permalink)
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NBA union faces test of strength - NBA - Yahoo! Canada Sports

Well, according to this article the players have been offering a much lower revenue split amount, probably close to the 50/50 the owners want, and the owners haven't offered anything back. So who's ignorant?
He's ignorant because it doesn't matter how much they offer if it doesn't make the deal fair in the end. The end result is the only thing that matters in terms of what is fair. How fair the old agreement was is really what should be considered and his viewpoint sort of ignores that.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:21 PM   #172 (permalink)
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NBA union faces test of strength - NBA - Yahoo! Canada Sports

Well, according to this article the players have been offering a much lower revenue split amount, probably close to the 50/50 the owners want, and the owners haven't offered anything back. So who's ignorant?
DeAndre Jordan is. So giving up a couple precent of the revenue share is giving everything. IMO there's nothing the owners should give. They've been giving the players everything for years. What do you expect the owners to give them that they don't already have?
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:31 PM   #173 (permalink)
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NBA union faces test of strength - NBA - Yahoo! Canada Sports

Well, according to this article the players have been offering a much lower revenue split amount, probably close to the 50/50 the owners want, and the owners haven't offered anything back. So who's ignorant?
50/50 is close, I think it was orginally offered by the players at 53.5ish and thats when the lock-out happened as the owners want it in the 40's.

This hard cap issue though - I can understand that the players don't want it BUT they would accept it if the split was 65 to players - which is completely rediculous and obviously a negotiating tactic.

The players can't win this, it's too bad they think they can.

Don't think DeAndre is really aware of what is going on.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:51 PM   #174 (permalink)
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DeAndre Jordan is. So giving up a couple precent of the revenue share is giving everything. IMO there's nothing the owners should give. They've been giving the players everything for years. What do you expect the owners to give them that they don't already have?
Everything that has been given up has been given up by the players. The owners haven't budged or even made another proposal with any real differences from before. The players keep moving their offer closer to what the owners want and the owners don't reciprocate. Eventually that leads to just caving. If I was a player, I wouldn't be happy with how this is going either.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:54 PM   #175 (permalink)
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He's ignorant because it doesn't matter how much they offer if it doesn't make the deal fair in the end. The end result is the only thing that matters in terms of what is fair. How fair the old agreement was is really what should be considered and his viewpoint sort of ignores that.
He's a player - his viewpoint is obviously going to be skewed to whatever benefits the players. In that context, his hating the ineffectiveness of the players' negotiations is quite the opposite of ignorant. If you think either group (owners or players) have what is best for the game and fairest in mind, you are very much mistaken. Both sides are out to win this negotiation.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:56 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Everything that has been given up has been given up by the players. The owners haven't budged or even made another proposal with any real differences from before. The players keep moving their offer closer to what the owners want and the owners don't reciprocate. Eventually that leads to just caving. If I was a player, I wouldn't be happy with how this is going either.
What do you think the owners should give the players?
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:56 PM   #177 (permalink)
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Everything that has been given up has been given up by the players. The owners haven't budged or even made another proposal with any real differences from before. The players keep moving their offer closer to what the owners want and the owners don't reciprocate. Eventually that leads to just caving. If I was a player, I wouldn't be happy with how this is going either.
These players are spoiled and like they always say it's a business and this business is no different from any other, the risk is on the owners side so why shouldn't they get most of the reward?
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:04 PM   #178 (permalink)
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a rift among the owners?

LINK - espn

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Before the NBA's owners and players' union returned to their respective corners on Thursday -- the owners in Dallas, the players in Las Vegas -- to regroup following Tuesday's negotiating session that ended with the lockout still very much intact, union president Derek Fisher sent out an email to his colleagues asking for solidarity.

The email, first printed by SI.com, challenges the faction of player agents who wish to decertify the union and it also hints that there may be some division growing between the league's 29 owners.

"The most recent meetings in New York were effective," Fisher wrote. "What you have been told by your agents, representatives and the media is probably speculative and inaccurate.

"What actually happened in those meetings was discussion, brainstorming and a sharing of options by both sides. The turning point this past Tuesday was not a disagreement between the players and the owners. It was actually a fundamental divide between the owners internally. They could not agree with each other on specific points of the deal and therefore it caused conflict within the league and its owners."

Sources confirm to ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard that there were disagreements among owners.

Owners and players initially found reason for optimism during Tuesday's meetings. Commissioner David Stern and Peter Holt, the head of the owners' executive committee, felt that the players' proposal to take 52 or 53 percent of basketball-related income, compared to 57 under the previous agreement, was basically fair, sources said.

Owners were seriously considering coming off of their demand for a salary freeze and would allow players' future earnings to be tied into the league's revenue growth, a critical point for players. The owners also were willing to allow the players to maintain their current salaries, without rollbacks, sources said.

But when the owners left the players to meet among themselves for around three hours, Cleveland's Dan Gilbert and Phoenix's Robert Sarver expressed their dissatisfaction with many of the points, sources said. The sources said that the Knicks' James Dolan and the Lakers' Jerry Buss were visibly annoyed by the hardline demands of Gilbert and Sarver.

Owners now are working on ironing out those differences Thursday in Dallas.

Meanwhile, with decertification surely to be a hot-button issue at the union's Vegas meeting, which was expected to draw more than 70 players, Fisher used his letter to challenge the motives of the agents seeking to disband the NBPA.

"What would be appreciated by the 400-plus players would be the support of our agents and constructive ideas, suggestions and solutions that are in our best interests," wrote Fisher. "Not the push for a drastic move that leaves their players without a union, without pensions, without health care. We just aren't there."
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:20 PM   #179 (permalink)
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When it's rumoured that LA has to pay $50 M into a revenue-sharing model, of course there is going to be a rift!
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:54 PM   #180 (permalink)
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I am suspect about any of that considering much of the article is coming from Fisher. I'm also suspect of un named sources.

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