Lockout official

Chris · 07-03-2011, 04:15 PM

this years going to suck. what am i going to do without nba?

Windex · 07-04-2011, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopha

this years going to suck. what am i going to do without nba?

live life

Toby · 07-04-2011, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopha

this years going to suck. what am i going to do without nba?

The only suitable replacement is watching Olympic Women's Curling

Windex · 07-04-2011, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

The only suitable replacement is watching Olympic Women's Curling

but that only lasts 2 weeks every 4 years

jeffb · 07-04-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

NEW YORK -- The sidewalk on 52nd Street between the NBA offices and the Omni Berkshire Hotel will get a much needed break for the next couple of weeks, with neither David Stern nor Adam Silver scuffing their well-worn soles on that pavement in the early days of the lockout.

Despite the doom-and-gloomy way the word "lockout" sounds, and all the uncertainty and risk it implies, there's virtually no time pressure on the NBA and its players' union to rush back into the negotiating room any time soon. That's precisely why no compromise was reached Thursday, because there was little or no risk associated with not reaching one.

But based on how the league's most recent lockout played out in 1998, there will be a series of drop-dead dates on the calendar. We'll get to the big ones, but the first date is one that should be filed under the category "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

The first date is July 15, two weeks from Friday.

The only time the NBA has ever lost games to a lockout, during the 1998-99 season, there was a gap of 36 days between the imposition of the lockout on July 1 and the next bargaining session on Aug. 6. That's 36 wasted days, days that could have been used to constructively negotiate at least some aspects of a deal -- perhaps even a better deal for both sides than the one that ultimately was agreed to in January 1999, at the cost of 32 regular season games.

There is one key factor that could alter this entire timeline, so it's worth addressing now: If the NFL fails to end its own lockout in the next few weeks, the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals will have no choice but to rule on that league's appeal of a district court's decision to briefly lift the lockout. The three-judge panel made clear during oral arguments on June 3 that the two sides should work this out themselves, because neither one would be happy with its ruling. But if the NFL negotiations stall and the 8th Circuit rules, both sides in the NBA labor dispute will pay close attention.

If the appeals court rules the NFLPA's decertification and antitrust claims are legitimate, the National Basketball Players Association may reconsider its decision not to decertify. If the owners win, there would be no sense in the NBA players following the same path.

"When the 8th Circuit rules, there will be a lot more information for everybody," said attorney Jeffrey Kessler, who represents both the NBPA and NFLPA.

With the NFL making progress toward a new deal, the most likely scenario is that the 8th Circuit won't have to rule. So for now, the first key date in the NBA lockout is ...

July 15: Both sides said Thursday they planned to get away for the July 4 weekend and reconvene separately for staff meetings on Tuesday. That's fine. A little space and time will do both sides some good after weeks of fruitless and mostly pointless bargaining sessions. But the stated goal of scheduling the next bargaining session by the following week must be met. If nothing else, the two sides need to get back to the bargaining table simply to demonstrate their stated commitment to getting a deal. They need to show each other that they're not interested in wasting a month, which could come back to haunt them later.

To avoid repeating history, owners and players can't drag heels - NBA - CBSSports.com Basketball

jeffb · 07-04-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

After the first pick was awarded, the next ball that came from among the 29 remaining teams received the second overall pick. The process continued that way until each of the 30 first-round picks was assigned. Subsequent rounds went in the opposite direction; the club that picked last in the first round picked first in the second round, and so on, with the third round order repeating the first round, the fourth round repeating the second, etc.

Major League Baseball's 1995 Draft, which followed the 1994 season that was cut short by a players' strike that wound up cancelling the postseason, including the World Series, went in inverse order of regular season record when the strike began on August 12. The first pick alternated between the National and American Leagues, based on the reverse order of their Draft position the previous season. Since the Mets had picked first in the 1994 Draft, the (then-) California Angels got the first pick in 1995 and took outfielder Darin Erstad.

If a worst-case scenario takes place this year in the NBA and the whole 2011-12 season is cancelled, the vote here would be for a simple inverse order Draft like MLB's in '95. That means 17-65 Minnesota would get the first pick, 19-63 Cleveland the second pick, and so on. But the Clippers own the Wolves' unprotected first next year. To be fair, that arrangement, as well as any other unprotected firsts, should be honored, with all protected picks carrying over to future years, since there would be no regular season records on which to base their protections.

That would mean, in this scenario, a 2012 Draft following a cancelled 2011-12 regular season would go as follows:

1. L.A. Clippers (unprotected from Minnesota)

2. Cleveland*

3. Toronto

4. Washington

5. Sacramento/New jersey (coin flip)

6. Sacramento/New jersey (coin flip)

7. Detroit

8. L.A. Clippers

9. Charlotte

10. Milwaukee

11. Golden State

12. Utah

13. Phoenix

14. Houston

15. Indiana

16. Philadelphia

17. New York

18. Atlanta

19. Memphis/New Orleans (coin flip)

20. Memphis/New Orleans (coin flip)

21. Portland

22. Denver

23. Orlando

24. Oklahoma City

25. Boston

26. Dallas/L.A. Lakers (coin flip)

27. Dallas/L.A. Lakers (coin flip)

28. Miami

29. San Antonio

30. Chicago

An open letter to NBA's players and owners | NBA.com

Gurk · 07-04-2011, 03:07 PM

^ That would be awesome. 3rd pick here we come :P

Bill Haverchuck · 07-04-2011, 03:13 PM

1- If there is a lockout, I really hope the NBA follows MLB's draft order instead of the NHL's method of dealing with a lockout.

2 - If the NBA follows MLB, that would mean that two years in a row the 1st overall pick was obtained via a trade!

3 - Clippers would have Griffin, Gordon, other pieces + 1st and 8th picks in a supposedly deep draft. Could Sterling manage to fuck that up, too?

Bill Haverchuck · 07-04-2011, 03:25 PM

Although Aldridge seems to be endorsing the MLB method, I just can't see a majority of the owners accepting that. It rewards teams twice for a bad season.

Maybe do a hybrid of the NHL and MLB. Use the MLB inverse order, but use the NHL timeframe of 3 years. So, no lottery. Just calculate the records for the past 3 years and do an inverse order. The Raps would end up with a top 8 pick. Not great. Not terrible. I like those odds better than using the NHL lockout lottery. That worked out shitty for the Sabres and Rangers.

jeffb · 07-04-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck

Although Aldridge seems to be endorsing the MLB method, I just can't see a majority of the owners accepting that. It rewards teams twice for a bad season.

Maybe do a hybrid of the NHL and MLB. Use the MLB inverse order, but use the NHL timeframe of 3 years. So, no lottery. Just calculate the records for the past 3 years and do an inverse order. The Raps would end up with a top 8 pick. Not great. Not terrible. I like those odds better than using the NHL lockout lottery. That worked out shitty for the Sabres and Rangers.

Why not do their own thing and not copy other leagues?

Bill Haverchuck · 07-04-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb

Why not do their own thing and not copy other leagues?

A hybrid would be their own thing. It would not exactly match either the MLB or NHL method.

Chris · 07-04-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windex

live life

the nba is my life...

Windex · 07-04-2011, 11:22 PM

i think they will most likely use NHL's method only because Buttman worked for the NBA and Stern before he came to the NHL. Who knows... maybe Stern advised him on how to handle the draft.

jeffb · 07-05-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

At midnight on Thursday, the N.B.A. locked out its players in what could be the start of a long labor dispute. Some observers, like ESPN’s Michael Wilbon, believe the entire 2011-12 season could be threatened.

Such a move would not be without precedent: the N.H.L. canceled its 2004-5 season. But the N.B.A.’s current financial condition is different than the N.H.L.’s in one important respect. Whereas there was almost no doubt that the N.H.L. was in fact losing money in advance of its lockout — player salaries had mushroomed by more than 400 percent from 1994 to 2004, according to independent estimates — the N.B.A.’s claims of financial hardship should be viewed more skeptically.

Instead, independent estimates of the N.B.A. financial condition reflect a league that has grown at a somewhat tepid rate compared to other sports, and which has an uneven distribution of revenues between teams — but which is fundamentally a healthy and profitable business. In addition, it is not clear that growth in player salaries, which has been modest compared to other sports and which is strictly pegged to league revenue, is responsible for the league’s difficulties.

The table below reflects the N.B.A.’s financial condition from its 1989-90 through 2009-10 seasons, as according to estimates prepared by Forbes and Financial World magazines. (All figures are adjusted for inflation. Some data was not published by Forbes in some years and is therefore left blank.)

Quote:

Growth in non-player expenses has outpaced that of salaries, having increased by 13 percent over five years and 43 percent over 10 years. Although some of this undoubtedly reflects sound business ventures, like the league’s investments in digital media or efforts to expand the game internationally, they have nevertheless had a reasonably large effect on the league’s bottom line. Had nonplayer expenses been the same in 2009-10 as they were in 1999-2000 (adjusted for inflation), the league would have made a record profit that year.

Quote:

Even as it stands, however, the Forbes data suggests that the league is still profitable. Its operating income — revenues less expenses (but before interest payments and taxes) — is estimated to have been $183 million in 2009-10, or about $6 million per team. The N.B.A.’s operating margin (operating income divided by revenues) was about 5 percent in 2009-10 and has been about 7 percent during the life of the current labor deal.

A 5 percent or 7 percent profit is not dissimilar to what other businesses have experienced recently. Fortune 500 companies, for instance, collectively turned a 4.0 percent profit in 2009 and a 6.6 percent profit in 2010 (both figures after taxes). Profit margins in the entertainment industry, in which the N.B.A. should probably be classified, have generally been a bit lower than that.

In some ways, the N.B.A.’s present condition closely resembles that of Major League baseball before its 1994-95 strike. Baseball was still profitable as a whole in advance of the strike, but about one-third of its teams had lost money in 1993, according to Forbes, while just four teams accounted for almost half of all league profits.

The solution that baseball has since adopted — greater revenue sharing in lieu of a salary cap — could also be a natural one for the N.B.A.: the profits made by the Knicks, Bulls and Lakers alone would be enough to cover the losses of all 17 unprofitable teams. (Players might have some reason to object to revenue sharing — some versions of it are the economic equivalent of a tax on player salaries — but they would probably prefer it to the more draconian measures that the league will try to impose.)

Another way in which the N.B.A. resembles baseball, unfortunately, is by having circulated financial data that doesn’t necessarily hold up to scrutiny. In 2001, Major League Baseball issued figures suggesting that it had incurred losses of $232 million before interest and taxes; Forbes’s independent estimates instead suggested that the league had made a profit of $127 million. But that year’s labor dispute, and the next in 2006, were resolved amiably and with few changes to baseball’s economic structure, and years of profits have followed since.

Calling Foul on N.B.A.'s Claims of Financial Distress - NYTimes.com

Psi · 07-05-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb

Calling Foul on N.B.A.'s Claims of Financial Distress - NYTimes.com

lol owned

Bill Haverchuck · 07-06-2011, 02:27 AM

The NBA's response to the NY Times article:

Quote:

The league office released this official statement earlier this evening:

The information from Forbes that serves as the basis for this article is inaccurate and we do not know how they do their calculations. Forbes does not have the financial data for our teams and the magazine's estimates do not reflect reality.

Precisely to avoid this issue, the NBA and its teams shared their complete league and team audited financials as well as our state and Federal tax returns with the Players Union. Those financials demonstrate the substantial and indisputable losses the league has incurred over the past several years.

The analysis that was posted this afternoon has several significant factual inaccuracies, including:

"(The NBA) is a fundamentally healthy and profitable business"

• The league lost money every year of the just expiring CBA. During these years, the league has never had positive Net Income, EBITDA or Operating Income.

"Many of the purported losses result from an unusual accounting treatment related to depreciation and amortization when a team is sold."

• We use the conventional and generally accepted accounting (GAAP) approach and include in our financial reporting the depreciation of the capital expenditures made in the normal course of business by the teams as they are a substantial and necessary cost of doing business.

We do not include purchase price amortization from when a team is sold or under any circumstances in any of our reported losses. Put simply, none of the league losses are related to team purchase or sale accounting.

"Another trick...moving income from the team's balance sheet to that of a related business like a cable network..."

• All revenues included in Basketball Related Income ("BRI") and reported in our financial statements have been audited by an accounting firm jointly engaged by the players' union and the league. They include basketball revenues reported on related entities' books.

"Ticket revenues... are up 22% compared to 1999-2000 season"

• Ticket revenues have increased 12% over the 10 year period, not the 22% reported.

"17 teams lost money according to Forbes ... Most of these losses were small..."

• Forbes' claim is inaccurate. In 2009-10, 23 teams had net income losses. The losses were in no way "small" as 11 teams lost more than $20M each on a net income basis.

"The profits made by the Knicks, Bulls and Lakers alone would be enough to cover the losses of all 17 unprofitable teams."

• The Knicks, Bulls and Lakers combined net income for 2009-10 does not cover the losses of the 23 unprofitable teams. Our net loss for that year, including the gains from the seven profitable teams, was -$340 million.

"Forbes's estimates -- a $183 million profit for the NBA in 2009-10, and those issued by the league, which claim a $370M loss..."

• Forbes's data is inaccurate. Our losses for 2009-10 were -$340 million, not -$370 million as the article states.

"The leaked financial statements for one team, the New Orleans Hornets, closely matched the Forbes data..."

• This is not an accurate statement as operating income in the latest Forbes data (2009-10) is $5M greater than what is reported in the Hornets audited financials

LINK - NBA.com

Toby · 07-06-2011, 06:10 AM

^^^^

Stern sounds like a used car salesman
comes with a warranty, easy monthly payments, why don't you take these Hornets for a test drive? It's got a good motor and newer interior.

**'trane** · 07-06-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck

The NBA's response to the NY Times article:

LINK - NBA.com

lol. owned.

jeffb · 07-06-2011, 08:48 AM

Both sides are full of shit.

fresh n' spicy · 07-06-2011, 09:00 AM

was watching nba gametime and mike mccan mentioned how the owners will benefit more from the lockout since it will probably be a long one because they have other sources of income and are much wealthier than the players. so if the owners arent exactly in a rush i dont like the sign of that...

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07-03-2011, 04:15 PM	#81 (permalink)
Chris representing the Big Land basketball is life Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Newfoundland Posts: 1,415 Representing:	this years going to suck. what am i going to do without nba?

07-04-2011, 03:07 PM	#87 (permalink)
Gurk is dead inside you ain't bout that life Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 21,017 Representing:	^ That would be awesome. 3rd pick here we come :P

07-04-2011, 03:13 PM	#88 (permalink)
Bill Haverchuck the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor The Mara sisters are hot! Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,843 Representing:	1- If there is a lockout, I really hope the NBA follows MLB's draft order instead of the NHL's method of dealing with a lockout. 2 - If the NBA follows MLB, that would mean that two years in a row the 1st overall pick was obtained via a trade! 3 - Clippers would have Griffin, Gordon, other pieces + 1st and 8th picks in a supposedly deep draft. Could Sterling manage to fuck that up, too?

07-04-2011, 03:25 PM	#89 (permalink)
Bill Haverchuck the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor The Mara sisters are hot! Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,843 Representing:	Although Aldridge seems to be endorsing the MLB method, I just can't see a majority of the owners accepting that. It rewards teams twice for a bad season. Maybe do a hybrid of the NHL and MLB. Use the MLB inverse order, but use the NHL timeframe of 3 years. So, no lottery. Just calculate the records for the past 3 years and do an inverse order. The Raps would end up with a top 8 pick. Not great. Not terrible. I like those odds better than using the NHL lockout lottery. That worked out shitty for the Sabres and Rangers.

07-04-2011, 11:22 PM	#93 (permalink)
Windex the next dictator of MLSE fresh and clean Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: uʍop ɹǝpun Posts: 22,524 Representing:	i think they will most likely use NHL's method only because Buttman worked for the NBA and Stern before he came to the NHL. Who knows... maybe Stern advised him on how to handle the draft.

07-06-2011, 06:10 AM	#97 (permalink)
Toby a nacho hound Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South of Portland, home of the Blazers Posts: 4,913 Representing:	^^^^ Stern sounds like a used car salesman comes with a warranty, easy monthly payments, why don't you take these Hornets for a test drive? It's got a good motor and newer interior.

07-06-2011, 08:48 AM	#99 (permalink)
jeffb is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: YO MAMMA Posts: 72,842 Representing:	Both sides are full of shit.

07-06-2011, 09:00 AM	#100 (permalink)
fresh n' spicy is pounding the rock! Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: mississauga Posts: 998 Representing:	was watching nba gametime and mike mccan mentioned how the owners will benefit more from the lockout since it will probably be a long one because they have other sources of income and are much wealthier than the players. so if the owners arent exactly in a rush i dont like the sign of that...