Lockout official - Page 45
Old 11-16-2011, 08:34 PM   #881 (permalink)
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They're far from average Joes.

It's always so easy to point the finger at the players. I suppose they should be good slaves and that the union is just for show. They shouldn't actually have a say in any of this. They sold their individual rights when they put a baseball cap and shook Mr. Stern's hand.

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Old 11-16-2011, 08:55 PM   #882 (permalink)
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Both sides are incredibly out of touch. I think the extreme value of sports franchises is a problem, in that it leaves teams in the hands of people who likely don't have a lot of ties with the community, other than sucking money out of its pockets. Your talking about people who have landed themselves in positions of enormous privilege, that even other people with more wealth than we can imagine don't experience.

I came across Ken Thomson quite a bit before he died, and he ended up with the amount of money that could buy a team. But he didn't start with that, inheriting a mere 500 million. He worked endlessly to make that grow, and still had time for regular shmucks like me. I don't know about his son, who I think I heard might have some interest in getting MLSE, but I do know the daughter had no time for any shmucks like me, having found herself with crazy money and power that just landed in her lap. That's the kind of people that buy teams now. You think the athletes live in a different world - these guys are in a different universe. So chances are, unless it's a Cuban, there isn't a great sense of responsibility that comes from strong ties to people in the community.

I wonder if that's sustainable, because sports is more than just business, and the rare guy like Cuban understands that. And the fact that there is such a huge gulf between players and owners in terms of money, power, and a sense of entitlement, regardless of players being up in the stratosphere, can't be helpful. Nor can the small number of people eligible - since how many are going to care about the game the way they should?
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:41 PM   #883 (permalink)
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I suppose they should be good slaves and that the union is just for show.
"Slave" is totally the right word. We all know slaves are offered unique opportunities to earn more money than surgeons.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:26 PM   #884 (permalink)
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I really don't understand the slave analogy, except that people seem to leap to it when the majority are black (for example, I don't recall many slave analogies during the NHL lockout, when they were asked to take significantly less money).

NBA players make millions of dollars, and it's not just because "they're the talent." The talent includes the entire organization, ticket sellers, apparel vendors, marketing, coaches, managers, right up to the top. They also make money because we, the fans, want to see them. When the players say it's all about the owner's greed, they're being disingenuous, and to suggest they're slaves on top of it, well, it just spits in the face of everyone but the players.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:55 AM   #885 (permalink)
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If you look at the history of free agency, it came about with a black man not being able to accept what he thought was a little too close to a master and slave relationship. Of course back then, it was a better description than the stretch it would be now. All the same, when it was white men playing baseball, they didn't express such things. There is a racial element that came into play, with the unfairness being felt differently. Now I agree that it's disingenuous at this point, but not entirely considering the historical context.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:59 AM   #886 (permalink)
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Why did Rondo show up to the meeting doing the Urkel? I get the impression that this whole thing is some kind of twisted joke the players are doing to get an extended holiday vacation.


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Old 11-17-2011, 07:46 AM   #887 (permalink)
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In my opinion their is a general sentiment whenever any professional athlete gets locked out (key word) that the athlete should be thankful for what he has. He shouldn't have the right to 'hold out', he should take 'what his owners give him'.

Even if the owners are still giving him 2 million dollars, all he is in this case is a big fancy slave with no right to determine and fight for his true worth.

This isn't the case, they aren't slaves. And thus a court settlement.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:15 AM   #888 (permalink)
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In my opinion their is a general sentiment whenever any professional athlete gets locked out (key word) that the athlete should be thankful for what he has. He shouldn't have the right to 'hold out', he should take 'what his owners give him'.

Even if the owners are still giving him 2 million dollars, all he is in this case is a big fancy slave with no right to determine and fight for his true worth.

This isn't the case, they aren't slaves. And thus a court settlement.
Get some perspective man!
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:28 AM   #889 (permalink)
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In my opinion their is a general sentiment whenever any professional athlete gets locked out (key word) that the athlete should be thankful for what he has. He shouldn't have the right to 'hold out', he should take 'what his owners give him'.

Even if the owners are still giving him 2 million dollars, all he is in this case is a big fancy slave with no right to determine and fight for his true worth.

This isn't the case, they aren't slaves. And thus a court settlement.
lol.... what percentage of people would happily trade places with these 'slaves' if given the opportunity? 99%? 99.8%? These guys essentially won a genetic lottery and are pissing a big chunk of it away.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:52 AM   #890 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
In my opinion their is a general sentiment whenever any professional athlete gets locked out (key word) that the athlete should be thankful for what he has. He shouldn't have the right to 'hold out', he should take 'what his owners give him'.

Even if the owners are still giving him 2 million dollars, all he is in this case is a big fancy slave with no right to determine and fight for his true worth.

This isn't the case, they aren't slaves. And thus a court settlement.
this is just bat shit crazy
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:58 AM   #891 (permalink)
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Money is just money and it's all relative. Who is anybody to say what another person should or should not be satisfied with or what they are entitled too.

The owners didn't make the money they did by reaching a point where they were satisfied with what they had, they were motivated to grow their worth. Who is to say that NBA players should be satisfied with 4-5 mil a year for 4-5 years and further content with giving up a significant portion of that income.

It's all persepctive.

Slave is a risky choice of words, it has nothing to do with race.

Last edited by bjjs; 11-17-2011 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:06 AM   #892 (permalink)
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Money is just money and it's all relative. Who is anybody to say what another person should or should not be satisfied with or what they are entitled too.

The owners didn't make the money they did by reaching a point where they were satisfied with what they had, they were motivated to grow their worth. Who is to say that NBA players should be satisfied with 4-5 mil a year for 4-5 years and further content with giving up a significant portion of that income.

It's all persepctive.

Slave is a risky choice of words, it has nothing to do with race.
At the end of the day the Owners don't really care about he individual but only the bottom line. The fact is if the players are smart they should know that in the long run they'll get their money back. Every CBA in north america has proven with no hard cap or hard cap that salaries will rise. Even in the NHL the so called worst CBA their is has grown substainally. Their NHLs cap floor now is what the cap was back in 2007 when the deal was done. The owners are taking the players for a ride now yes but its lack of creativity on the players side that is keeping them out of work
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:21 AM   #893 (permalink)
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Money is just money and it's all relative. Who is anybody to say what another person should or should not be satisfied with or what they are entitled too.

The owners didn't make the money they did by reaching a point where they were satisfied with what they had, they were motivated to grow their worth. Who is to say that NBA players should be satisfied with 4-5 mil a year for 4-5 years and further content with giving up a significant portion of that income.

It's all persepctive.

Slave is a risky choice of words, it has nothing to do with race.
If thats the case, who say the owners shouldn't decide what the make now?

To suggest "slave" has nothing to do with race, is a little naive.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:25 AM   #894 (permalink)
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Even if the owners are still giving him 2 million dollars, all he is in this case is a big fancy slave with no right to determine and fight for his true worth.
you're kidding right ?...holy Jebus
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:29 AM   #895 (permalink)
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The owners didn't make the money they did by reaching a point where they were satisfied with what they had, they were motivated to grow their worth. Who is to say that NBA players should be satisfied with 4-5 mil a year for 4-5 years and further content with giving up a significant portion of that income.
One reason I don't like the comparison between the players and owners is because the owners, in many cases, if not all, earned their money by investing or putting capital into financial/business endeavours. In a nutshell, they took risks and produced shit while absorbing costs and taking risks.

The players don't put up any capital. They have a great opportunity to earn millions straight out of school without absorbing any financial risk. On those grounds alone, I find the "grow your wealth" argument to be problematic.

In fact, the league gives them all kinds of free marketing to help them grow their wealth. Who the fuck would know about most of these guys without the NBA? And yet dozens and dozens of them sign multi-million dollar endorsement deals based on the popularity the league created for them.

What businesses in the real world give you such a headstart in "growing your wealth" while asking you to absorb such little risk? Heck, no risk.

It's tough to compare the players and owners, in terms of how they made their money.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:04 AM   #896 (permalink)
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If you look at the history of free agency, it came about with a black man not being able to accept what he thought was a little too close to a master and slave relationship.
That is so far from reality I don't know where to start...
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:06 AM   #897 (permalink)
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Money is just money and it's all relative.
Email me $1000 then. Seriously... perspective... get some.

And it has everything to do with race, and you sound borderline by saying it.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:07 AM   #898 (permalink)
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One reason I don't like the comparison between the players and owners is because the owners, in many cases, if not all, earned their money by investing or putting capital into financial/business endeavours. In a nutshell, they took risks and produced shit while absorbing costs and taking risks.

The players don't put up any capital. They have a great opportunity to earn millions straight out of school without absorbing any financial risk. On those grounds alone, I find the "grow your wealth" argument to be problematic.

In fact, the league gives them all kinds of free marketing to help them grow their wealth. Who the fuck would know about most of these guys without the NBA? And yet dozens and dozens of them sign multi-million dollar endorsement deals based on the popularity the league created for them.

What businesses in the real world give you such a headstart in "growing your wealth" while asking you to absorb such little risk? Heck, no risk.

It's tough to compare the players and owners, in terms of how they made their money.
Solid argument here.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:00 PM   #899 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
One reason I don't like the comparison between the players and owners is because the owners, in many cases, if not all, earned their money by investing or putting capital into financial/business endeavours. In a nutshell, they took risks and produced shit while absorbing costs and taking risks.

The players don't put up any capital. They have a great opportunity to earn millions straight out of school without absorbing any financial risk. On those grounds alone, I find the "grow your wealth" argument to be problematic.

In fact, the league gives them all kinds of free marketing to help them grow their wealth. Who the fuck would know about most of these guys without the NBA? And yet dozens and dozens of them sign multi-million dollar endorsement deals based on the popularity the league created for them.

What businesses in the real world give you such a headstart in "growing your wealth" while asking you to absorb such little risk? Heck, no risk.

It's tough to compare the players and owners, in terms of how they made their money.
See what happens when you need a tune up? The Chuck don't mess around.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:15 PM   #900 (permalink)
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One reason I don't like the comparison between the players and owners is because the owners, in many cases, if not all, earned their money by investing or putting capital into financial/business endeavours. In a nutshell, they took risks and produced shit while absorbing costs and taking risks.

The players don't put up any capital. They have a great opportunity to earn millions straight out of school without absorbing any financial risk. On those grounds alone, I find the "grow your wealth" argument to be problematic.

In fact, the league gives them all kinds of free marketing to help them grow their wealth. Who the fuck would know about most of these guys without the NBA? And yet dozens and dozens of them sign multi-million dollar endorsement deals based on the popularity the league created for them.

What businesses in the real world give you such a headstart in "growing your wealth" while asking you to absorb such little risk? Heck, no risk.

It's tough to compare the players and owners, in terms of how they made their money.
Many players take a tremendous amount of financial risk every time they step out on the court. Each game could be their last, each contract their last. A risk not as easily managed as a risk analyzed throughouly with millions of dollars in due dilligence wthrough bankers/lawyers/accountants.
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