LeBron James
Old 06-16-2014, 03:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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So here's something I noticed about LeBron:

2010
LeBron quits against Boston multiple games, most notably in a PIVOTAL game 5 (series tied 2-2) when they got blown out by 32 at home. Ends with 15 points on 3-14 shooting (-22). Nice statline the next game but he checked out (knowing that was his last game as a Cavalier). Then he "decides" to go to Miami.

2011
This is where we truly saw on the grand stage that LeBron has issues in pressure moments. He choked in multiple games, most notably games 4-6. Had 8 points in game 4, choked in 4th quarters all series long (see below) where he averaged about 3 points per 4th quarter in the 6 game series. He scored 17 and 21 points in games 5 and 6, respectively, and averaged just 15.3ppg in the last 3 games of the series (lost all 3).



2012
Won championship. This was his year. 100% credit for this one.

2013
Won but got real lucky they didn't lose game 6 down 3-2 and down 5 with just 28.3 seconds left in the game after 2 terrible LeBron turnovers. Was tentative for most of first 6 games. They dared him to shoot and he wasn't confident. Diaw held him to 3-21 shooting in the series when he guarded him. Games 1-3 he was straight scared and clearly took a step back mentally, averaging just 16.7 ppg in the first 3 games. Game 4 Wade carried them but LeBron ended up scoring like 9 points in the last couple minutes of garbage time to pad his stats and end up with more points than Wade. Game 5 he goes 8-22 and lost. Game 6 was pretty bad for most of game (until first half of 4th) and would've ended the series with 2 terrible turnovers and elimination. It was going to be the same story all over again for LeBron. But of course, he got real lucky that Ray Allen saved his a**. He went off in game 7 and all of a sudden we're hearing he's GOAT, and something about Mount Rushmore lol.

2014
Played well first 2 games, showed up for 3 quarters total during games 3-5. Game 3 he shows up for first quarter for 14 points, ends with 22 points with 7 turnovers (-21). All while getting completely owned on defense. Game 4 doesn't show up first half with only 9 points and down 19 (-15) then he scores a meaningless 19 in the 3rd to pad his stats and ends with 28 and 8. Game 5 comes out strong in first quarter had 17-6-1 only 14-4-4 rest of game and couldn't stop the bleeding in the 2nd quarter when Heat as a team scored 11 points and he had just 3.

End result: if Spurs close out game 6 last year as they should've, we're looking at LeBron quitting/choking in multiple games in a series (and these are PIVOTAL games) in 4 of the last 5 years! Including 3 of the last 4 Finals. If the East wasn't so weak, they wouldn't have made the Finals 4 straight years. Have they faced even 1 true contender in the East during the last 4 seasons? I don't believe so.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The dude quit. He gave up. He shot a 3, it rimmed out. His team was down by 18 halfway through the 4th. So he fires up another 3. Brick. He kinda slumped his shoulders and started walking slowly back up the court. This is live action. The Spurs pressed ahead and found Danny Green in the corner for a 3. Green missed the shot. Miami gets the ball back and heads up court. Where's LeBron? I don't know? I think he was just standing at halfcourt. I don't want to play this game anymore. The Spurs broke King James.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You do realize it's not all about points and FG% in 4th quarters to justify him as choking right? Clutch is a very subjective term and can include defense and facilitating. Not just scoring a lot in the fourth quarter. Your stats are also only based off very specific games and quarters. You dont even touch on the many great playoff games he's had.

If you hate LeBron, we get it but what other point did you want to make with this thread?

And Toby, the guy went for 30, 10 & 5 at a decent efficiency while his team was nowhere to be found. Are your expectations really that high for one individual?

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Old 06-16-2014, 03:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You do realize it's not all about points and FG% in 4th quarters to justify him as choking right? Clutch is a very subjective term and can include defense and facilitating. Not just scoring a lot in the fourth quarter. Your stats are also only based off very specific games and quarters. You dont even touch on the many great playoff games he's had.

If you hate LeBron, we get it but what other point did you want to make with this thread?

And Toby, the guy went for 30, 10 & 5 at a decent efficiency while his team was nowhere to be found. Are your expectations really that high for one individual?
Yes. You must be referring to the image. He choked in 2011. I saw the games. Not sure how one can deny that. The stats are posted there to back up my claim. The reason I made this thread is because this is guy crazy overhyped. I hear people on a regular basis try to compare this guy to MJ and say he above guys like Kobe/Duncan/Shaq. It's stupid. People need to see who he really is and stop hyping this guy like he's the GOAT.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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And Toby, the guy went for 30, 10 & 5 at a decent efficiency while his team was nowhere to be found. Are your expectations really that high for one individual?
I only got to watch the 4th quarter. So I missed all the 30, 10 and 5 stuff. I just saw a dude quit playing basketball in the middle of the NBA Finals. If DeMarcus Cousins had done that against the Suns in a regular season game, he probably would have been fined and suspended for conduct detrimental to the team.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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the spurs broke james wait what? last year, lebron finished the spurs with a dagger in game 7 (along with 35 points). do you honestly expect him to win with a team that didnt show up? in 2011, he was the sole reason they lost, this year its not his fault.

i haven't seen such an idiotic thread in my life. can lebron become goat, possibly (but not likely), hes only 30 and hasnt really been hit with any huge injuries. kobe shot 6-25 in game 7 in 2010 yet no one gave a fk cause they won/ duncan missed a easy shot in game 7. also, we going to forget that spurs lost to an 8th seed without their leading scorer? why is is that lebron gets so much flak for every fk up, yet others dont.

yes people hype him up but the amount of hate he gets is just ridiculous. people paint out to be some kind of asshole villain

also can you give the spurs credit for having a game plan of beating the heat instead of lebron choking?
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes. You must be referring to the image. He choked in 2011. I saw the games. Not sure how one can deny that. The stats are posted there to back up my claim. The reason I made this thread is because this is guy crazy overhyped. I hear people on a regular basis try to compare this guy to MJ and say he above guys like Kobe/Duncan/Shaq. It's stupid. People need to see who he really is and stop hyping this guy like he's the GOAT.
Ill agree he did choke in the 2011 finals, but he's redeemed himself multiple times after that. And yes, delusional fans and the media can really make you dislike a player, i get that. I do have to respect the guy for his accomplishments up to now though. Comparisons are inevitable when one of the better players in this era does well for himself. And you've gotta admit the amount of achievements he's had up to now weren't just earned by luck.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I never said he choked, I said he gave up. He publicly quit on national TV.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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While I do agree that he gave up, He put on good numbers on yesterday's game. But what I think he lacked and I think everyone can agree was LEADERSHIP. Miami did not play like a team at all and could barely share the ball like they knew what they were doing. I really don't know what happened and it seems like something happened with the team's chemistry. It just didnt look right.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Lebron doesn't have the killer instinct to end games, enough said. Let's not talk about him now, it's time to celebrate the Spurs winning their 5th championship. Spurs Win
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:21 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Everyone's a hater. LeBron is still far and away the best player alive. People aren't giving the Spurs the kind of credit they deserve. LeBron is the first truly all-time great player of the post-modern era; the small ball Spurs are the first truly all-time great TEAM of the post-modern era.

Besides that, Wade disappeared, CB tried to do a little too much, and Ray Ray missed a way way too many open threes. As Jay Triano once said, "What the fuck are ya gonna do?"
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by omar36 View Post
the spurs broke james wait what? last year, lebron finished the spurs with a dagger in game 7 (along with 35 points). do you honestly expect him to win with a team that didnt show up? in 2011, he was the sole reason they lost, this year its not his fault.

i haven't seen such an idiotic thread in my life. can lebron become goat, possibly (but not likely), hes only 30 and hasnt really been hit with any huge injuries. kobe shot 6-25 in game 7 in 2010 yet no one gave a fk cause they won/ duncan missed a easy shot in game 7. also, we going to forget that spurs lost to an 8th seed without their leading scorer? why is is that lebron gets so much flak for every fk up, yet others dont.

yes people hype him up but the amount of hate he gets is just ridiculous. people paint out to be some kind of asshole villain

also can you give the spurs credit for having a game plan of beating the heat instead of lebron choking?
Idiotic thread? I gave a thorough year-by-year breakdown. Choose to disagree with what's in front of you, but no need to throw insults.

You are comparing to Kobe and Duncan. The point isn't that those guys are immune to bad play or whatever. The point is, it's a regular occurrence for LeBron, and this is who he truly is. Someone who mentally isn't strong as the some of the best of all time, and honestly, dude is almost 30. This is who is is.

To those saying spurs were just better, fully agree. But this isn't about one series. This is about nearly 4 of the last 5 years. How can one fail to see it? It has to be concerning even for LeBron fans.

Anyways, the praise LeBron gets is way more ridiculous than the hate. He's shrunk nearly 4 out of the last 5 years. He needs to be blamed.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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This loss wasn't about Lebron. It was about his supporting cast. He got no help from anyone in this series against the spurs. He scored 28 points per game on like 65% shooting.

I am the furthest thing from a Lebron fan but I don't think you can lay the blame for this years finals loss on him.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Anyways, the praise LeBron gets is way more ridiculous than the hate. He's shrunk nearly 4 out of the last 5 years. He needs to be blamed.
Now the last time I checked and just emphatically proved by the Spurs the game is a team sport. Yes there are players that rise above and become integral to the end result of winning but they still need their team to pull through. MJ couldn't do it on his own till Pippen came along to take defensive pressure off and even then, they had other players step up in the 4th in key moments as defences zero'd in on the 2. Other players have to step up to help get the pressure off. This year the Spurs had Green, Mills and Kawaii who wins the MVP taking the pressure off of the Spurs's big 3. Last couple of years the Heat had Miller and then Allen. That didn't happen for Bron, where was Wade and Bosh and the rest? Heat win game 2 when Lewis had a marvellous game and Wade/Bosh actually contributed on offence opening the floor for Bron to drive. In the end it was lack of depth that killed the Heat and it was the youthful depth of the Spurs that crushed them.

Now, I'm not sure what happened after that game, after LBJ tweaked his ankle but Bron seemed hesitant to drive into the lane, one sequence last night on a switch Mills was guarding Bron, no drive - was odd. Players play hurt and not an excuse but at some point the rest of the team has to step up to help which they didn't. Bron still played well all the way through.

Instead of blaming Bron, and yes he is culpable to a point but credit Pop and the Spurs for a brilliantly played series. Spo was thoroughly out coached and the Heat depth was nowhere to be found cause they had none.

As MJ, Bron gets the glory for the team win but he takes the most heat for the lose. This thread has it's merits but is way over the top.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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This loss wasn't about Lebron. It was about his supporting cast. He got no help from anyone in this series against the spurs. He scored 28 points per game on like 65% shooting.

I am the furthest thing from a Lebron fan but I don't think you can lay the blame for this years finals loss on him.
The numbers look great as always from LeBron. Problem is he showed up for 1 quarter per game in the last 3 games (3 quarters total). He had 28 and 8 in game 4, but only 9 came in the first half when the game was decided. Who cares about the meaningless 19 he had in the 3rd when it was too late? Similar thing happened yesterday. He has 17-6 after the 1st quarter, only 3 in the next quarter when the game turnaround and he once again just let it happen. And game 3 his stats were terrible and that was after 14 points in the 1st quarter. Supporting cast was bad, but he also didn't show up during critical parts of the game. The total statline in the game doesn't show what actually happened. You have to watch it to know it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:28 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The numbers look great as always from LeBron. Problem is he showed up for 1 quarter per game in the last 3 games (3 quarters total). He had 28 and 8 in game 4, but only 9 came in the first half when the game was decided. Who cares about the meaningless 19 he had in the 3rd when it was too late? Similar thing happened yesterday. He has 17-6 after the 1st quarter, only 3 in the next quarter when the game turnaround and he once again just let it happen. And game 3 his stats were terrible and that was after 14 points in the 1st quarter. Supporting cast was bad, but he also didn't show up during critical parts of the game. The total statline in the game doesn't show what actually happened. You have to watch it to know it.
Hard to show up in the fourth in 4 of those 5 games when your being crushed by 20 points and your team is nowhere to be found. Credit the Spurs for that.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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[quote=ClutchCity;902681]The numbers look great as always from LeBron. Problem is he showed up for 1 quarter per game in the last 3 games (3 quarters total). He had 28 and 8 in game 4, but only 9 came in the first half when the game was decided. Who cares about the meaningless 19 he had in the 3rd when it was too late? Similar thing happened yesterday. He has 17-6 after the 1st quarter, only 3 in the next quarter when the game turnaround and he once again just let it happen. And game 3 his stats were terrible and that was after 14 points in the 1st quarter. Supporting cast was bad, but he also didn't show up during critical parts of the game. The total statline in the game doesn't show what actually happened. You have to watch it to know

I watched every game. His teammates let him down. They were downright awful on both ends of the floor. In the end SA was just clearly a much better team. I think that the loss was more about how well rounded SA was as opposed to Miami and less about Lebron's play.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The dude was playing 4 on 5 most of the time. Wade was terrible. He got beat by one of the best teams i've ever seen. It's just simply not about him.

All I notice distinctly is that there are two Lebrons in a sense. There is the Lebron that can play a little angry like he did in the first quarter tonight. That guy competes at a level close to Jordan. And then there is his natural demeanor which is more about making the right play for his team no matter what. That guy is probably the greatest player ever, though not the greatest competitor, and when that guy has a team that allows him to raise up to the highest level there is no ridiculous discussion about quitting.

He cannot carry a team on his own through a whole season. The toll is too heavy mentally and physically, and it makes poor use of his overall abilities. If that is a big knock on him then fine - knock yourself out. Seeing the first quarter Lebron all the time would be kinda cool, but the Lebron that doesn't have to step outside of who he really is gets it done at the end when he has the team that can play off of that. This team just never had the defensive identity of the past, never had the weapons, never had the overall cohesion. The big three were extremely efficient, but beyond that there was nothing much at all, and when have Wade unable to show any hustle or make a layup that leaves very little to get the job done.

If there is anyone in the Miami Heat organisation that has the slightest thought that Lebron let them down somehow i would be shocked. These kinds of ideas are only put forth by people with agendas that are not entirely objective. Obviously the spotlight on him makes it possible to judge him more harshly, but that doesn't make those judgments fair and objective.

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Old 06-16-2014, 09:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I watched every game. His teammates let him down. They were downright awful on both ends of the floor. In the end SA was just clearly a much better team. I think that the loss was more about how well rounded SA was as opposed to Miami and less about Lebron's play.
Not sure about that. Usually James is also a great passer but we didn't see any of that in this series. The guy didn't show a lot of trust in his teammates, didn't try too much to involve them, and I think it didn't help their confidence on the offensive end. None of them had really the chance to develop rhythm and some momentum.

The "follow my lead" speech is also a demonstration of this, the guy tried to hard to put his team on his shoulder. To me, the Spurs won with team play against a "just go to Lebron" strategy which is just too simplistic against a great defensive team like the Spurs.

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Old 06-16-2014, 10:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The dude was playing 4 on 5 most of the time. Wade was terrible. He got beat by one of the best teams i've ever seen. It's just simply not about him.

All I notice distinctly is that there are two Lebrons in a sense. There is the Lebron that can play a little angry like he did in the first quarter tonight. That guy competes at a level close to Jordan. And then there is his natural demeanor which is more about making the right play for his team no matter what. That guy is probably the greatest player ever, though not the greatest competitor, and when that guy has a team that allows him to raise up to the highest level there is no ridiculous discussion about quitting.

He cannot carry a team on his own through a whole season. The toll is too heavy mentally and physically, and it makes poor use of his overall abilities. If that is a big knock on him then fine - knock yourself out. Seeing the first quarter Lebron all the time would be kinda cool, but the Lebron that doesn't have to step outside of who he really is gets it done at the end when he has the team that can play off of that. This team just never had the defensive identity of the past, never had the weapons, never had the overall cohesion. The big three were extremely efficient, but beyond that there was nothing much at all, and when have Wade unable to show any hustle or make a layup that leaves very little to get the job done.

If there is anyone in the Miami Heat organisation that has the slightest thought that Lebron let them down somehow i would be shocked. These kinds of ideas are only put forth by people with agendas that are not entirely objective. Obviously the spotlight on him makes it possible to judge him more harshly, but that doesn't make those judgments fair and objective.
But where is that guy they need him most? For example in game 4 of this series, where I mentioned he only had 9 points in the first half and they were down 19 (he was -15). He let it happen. I understand if your teammates don't show up. In 2008 when LeBron lost to the Celtics he had 45 points and got NO HELP. But I didn't criticize because he did all he could. He went down fighting. In game 4 of this years finals that wasn't the case. He looked timid/tentative or whatever you want to call it. It was reminiscent of 2011 Finals. He had just 5 FGA in the first half and didn't attack the defence. He wasn't even setting up teammates, he was deferring and passing to them hoping they can bail him out. He didn't attack or put pressure on the defence to make plays for himself or his teammates. And that's why I'm criticizing. His teammates didn't show up, but he didn't go down fighting and just watched and let his team fall down 19 in the first half of a pivotal game which pretty much decided the result. Then he comes out and scores 19 in the third when it was too late. Where was that in the first half when the team needed a boost? Not like his teammates starting player better during his run, clearly he could've done something in the first half if he came out like that in the 3rd. And that's the problem with him.

And he had 20 assists to 19 turnovers in the series mixed with horrendous defence throughout.

Game 5 he came out gunning in the first, but once again, it was too late, they needed that last game. And after a GREAT first quarter (he had 17 and 6), he scores just 3 points in the next quarter and his team goes from up 7 to down 7. I have to rewatch that quarter to see if he attacked, but I don't recall him being too aggressive. Going for huge bursts for one quarter, and not showing up for 3 quarters is unacceptable, I don't care what the stats say, he's gotta do better. It's not about losing to the Spurs (who were just unreal), it's about not fighting when his team needed him to step up. It may always be like that for LeBron.

He did have a great game 7 last year. However, Spurs were one play away from sealing game 6 and if that game 7 didn't happen, we are saying he choked. I specifically recall you saying LeBron took a step back mentally during last years Finals a few games in, so I'm know I'm not being subjective.

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