Lebron finally says something that makes sense
Old 12-24-2010, 05:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: LeBron: Contraction 'Would Be Great For League'

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LeBron James suggested Thursday that contraction would make the NBA more entertaining.

Defending his decision to join Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh with the Heat, James said the league would be more entertaining if numerous teams had multiple stars.

"Hopefully the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the '80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team," James said. "The league was great. It wasn't as watered down as it is [now]."

James had a couple of ideas in which teams could go and some players that would make other teams better right now.

"[Contraction] is not my job; I'm a player but that is why it the league was so great," James said.

"Imagine if you could take Kevin Love off Minnesota and add him to another team and you shrink the [league]. Looking at some of the teams that aren't that great, you take Brook Lopez or you take Devin Harris off these teams that aren't that good right now and you add him to a team that could be really good. Not saying let's take New jersey and let's take Minnesota out of the league. But hey, you guys are not stupid, I'm not stupid, it would be great for the league."



Read more: RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: LeBron: Contraction 'Would Be Great For League'
100% agree for once. Lebron is bang on in this case. I've been saying this for years, I dont know why Stern isnt taking steps to contract the teams who are year after year losing millions and millions of dollars because of whatever the circumstance.

Get rid of LAC NOH MEM ATL CHA MIN and do a draft. This would ensure players like Joey Dorsey and Julian Wright are no longer in the league, and the product on the floor would be incredible with the now starters on bad teams being key bench guys for winning teams.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I highly doubt that the player's association would be on board with that.

Instead of getting a $30M contract Amir Johnson would probably be playing in europe.... anyone like him who isn't a star isn't going to like the paycut.

And I'd wager that even a lot of good players won't like going from stars on their "bad team" to bench players playing 15-20 min on good ones.

JMO.

I agree though.. it would be awesome.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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They should reduce the number of games played first. 82 is absurd.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I wonder if the players would see fewer games as a positive that could be weighed against fewer players in the league. Of course fewer games means less money for owners, but with fewer teams losing money, and a greater chance of having a team that makes really good money, it should be the way they go.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Toronto would be one of the first to go. I think Charles Barkley was saying the other day he would like to see the league back to how it used to be when every team was competitive. When top players are getting together they give a disadvantage to every other team. Lebron went against his own theory. Most teams had 1 or 2 top players and everyone else was good role players. Top teams now are stacked, with the exception of San Antonio. Look at Miami, Boston, Orlando etc. All have 3-4 future hall of famers. Maybe they should stick to their team instead of bailing out.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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At the end of the day, these crappy teams are still a source of revenue. They're good for surrounding businesses as well. Sure this change would be good for the league as far as competition and excitement is concerned. But in the long run it'll just go back to expanding teams in "hopes" of adding one or two more competitive teams...and so on...
The NBA, compared to other Major league Sports, is still really young in my opinion and Stern is yet to figure something out that works for everyone.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DuCa00795 View Post
Toronto would be one of the first to go.
You seriously think that? Can you explain why? Considering we were near or in the top 10 attendance wise when this team was average to lousy the past 10 years I think thats an insane statement. Add on the fact that the Raptors have television deals to put them on TV every single night(which some teams dont even have) I think your statement is completely false and not thought through at all .


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Top teams now are stacked, with the exception of San Antonio. Look at Miami, Boston, Orlando etc. All have 3-4 future hall of famers. Maybe they should stick to their team instead of bailing out.
With the exception of MIA, both BOS and ORL were built through trades(and he draft obviously), not the main players leaving their teams. With the exception of Lewis for ORL, the rest of both teams top players came from trades, not players jumping ship to win(KG,RA,VC)



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I highly doubt that the player's association would be on board with that.

Instead of getting a $30M contract Amir Johnson would probably be playing in europe.... anyone like him who isn't a star isn't going to like the paycut.
Isnt that the whole point of this discussion? To ensure lower level players(not saying Amir, but in general) either work their asses off to stay in the NBA by getting better in the offseason and earning a good contract and spot on a roster rather than getting that deal because of desperation? I think with 24 teams instead of 30, a guy like Amir would get less money and have less of a role unless he earns it because of the great talent the situation would create around the league. Players wouldnt fuck off in the offseason, theyd actually have to work on their game and improve to stay or get further to where they are, again, thus creating a better talent pool and compettitive league. In a 24 team league, a guy like Amir would be a 10th man unless he continued to work on his deficiencies.

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And I'd wager that even a lot of good players won't like going from stars on their "bad team" to bench players playing 15-20 min on good ones.
Well too bad for them, work harder, get better. Most fans complain(when theyre a bad team) that they dont have enough talent at certain positions and blame the management. With 24 teams youll have guys fighting for starting spots and minutes and itll create better more fun to watch teams, and a much more compettitive NBA.

This whole discussion is without discussion what the new CBA is going to look like obviously, which directly relates to the conversation because if its not favorable to the players, then if the contraction happened, you could very well see a lot of the middle of the line guys go to europe which would be very bad for the whole 24 team league.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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^^^^^
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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However, even though I agree with what thriller is saying, people are right to point out that a huge portion of the players association will be pissed.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Fisher's response as player's ass. pres. - LINK

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"I don't necessarily agree with [James' comments], but at the same time I understand and respect the fact [that] 460 opinions won't always be alike," Fisher, the NBPA president, said after practice Friday, citing the approximate number of players in the league. "I don't think it's my place to tell one of our guys what they should be thinking or feeling or saying, but I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment."

In January the league submitted a proposal to the players' union calling for a $750 million-$800 million reduction in player salaries when the new CBA is signed, among other concessions. Fisher didn't feel that having a high-profile player like James taking a stance that wasn't in line with the group would compromise the union's bargaining position, however.

"I don't know if it necessarily hurts our cause," Fisher said. "It's surprising I would say, I guess, maybe to a lot of people but I guess I'm just a realist in that regard. Even in the past when there have been guys that made comments that have been deemed detrimental to the cause, it's unrealistic to think that you have almost 500 people in one group and everybody is going to say the same thing and have the same responses to certain questions."
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thriller92 View Post
You seriously think that? Can you explain why? Considering we were near or in the top 10 attendance wise when this team was average to lousy the past 10 years I think thats an insane statement. Add on the fact that the Raptors have television deals to put them on TV every single night(which some teams dont even have) I think your statement is completely false and not thought through at all .
I figured we were folding teams which have been unsuccessful over the past while. Even so, players still won't want to play here because of the climate etc. I don't think it's completely false, if players wouldn't want to play here like the aforementioned teams then we could definitely be a team to fold if a new system would happen.




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With the exception of MIA, both BOS and ORL were built through trades(and he draft obviously), not the main players leaving their teams. With the exception of Lewis for ORL, the rest of both teams top players came from trades, not players jumping ship to win(KG,RA,VC)
If I recall, KG and VC both wanted to go to contenders and made it public. Regardless, that's not my point. I remember back when teams were made up of 1 or 2 stars and a bunch of great role players. Now a lot of teams just suck. Remember Jordan and Pippen? Stockton and Malone? The good days, now we see super teams that make it hard for other teams to win.

Last edited by DuCa00795; 12-25-2010 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Belsius View Post
They should reduce the number of games played first. 82 is absurd.
Oh come on, 82 games isnt shit, it follows right along with other sports...
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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24 team league with 2 divisions
68 game season

East
Boston Celtics
Brooklyn Nets
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Indiana Pacers
Miami Heat
New York Knicks
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia 76ers
Toronto Raptors
Washington Wizards

West
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Los Angeles Lakers
Milwaukee Bucks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
San Antonio Spurs
Seattle Sonics
Utah Jazz
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Old 12-25-2010, 01:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Bottom two relegated, top two promoted.

Premier League.

Boston
Miami
Chicago
Atlanta
Orlando
New York
San Antonio
Dallas
Lakers
Toronto
Houston
Denver
Utah
Portland
Phoenix

Division 2

Indiana
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Detroit
Charlotte
Washington
OKC
New Orleans
Memphis
GS
Clips
Minni
Sac
NJ

Division 3

Iowa
Fort Wayne
Salt Lake city
Maine
Springfield
Dakota
Sioux Falls
Reno
Rio Grande
Cleveland
New Mexico
Tulsa
Texas
Austin
Bakersfield
Idaho
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Old 12-25-2010, 02:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuCa00795 View Post
I figured we were folding teams which have been unsuccessful over the past while. Even so, players still won't want to play here because of the climate etc. I don't think it's completely false, if players wouldn't want to play here like the aforementioned teams then we could definitely be a team to fold if a new system would happen.
I think teams getting contracted has way more to do with money being brought in rather than players not wanting to go somewhere. If Toronto is still generating a ton of revenue which is higher then more than half of the NBA it doesnt matter players hate Canada because of the taxes. Money is always the bottom line my friend not a few players opinions, because I guarantee you if we had good management and a winning team, players would come in free agency, a lot like what happened with Sacramento in the early 2000s.No one wanted to go there when they were bottom dwellers for years but once they finally got good CWebb re signed, and they got free agents and players happy to come to them in trades.


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If I recall, KG and VC both wanted to go to contenders and made it public. Regardless, that's not my point. I remember back when teams were made up of 1 or 2 stars and a bunch of great role players. Now a lot of teams just suck. Remember Jordan and Pippen? Stockton and Malone? The good days, now we see super teams that make it hard for other teams to win.
KG never said anything when he was on MIN. The media assumed every offseaosn he wanted out but KG never publicly stated he wanted out of MIN, and if he wasnt traded, he might have finished his career there. Same thing with VC, I dont remember him ever asking out of NJ, that seemed more like Thorn being fed up with him.

You can bring up the Jordan era, but theres just as many if not more stars in the league now than then(its just more guards and forwards now, vs centers and power players then). And dont act like there werent just as many bad teams then, because there was. It's always going to be like that.
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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LeBron James(notes) has embraced the villain role in a most unprecedented way, pushing away from his peers and aligning himself with David Stern, Dan Gilbert and the owners desperate to destroy the Players Association. He left the sport stunned on Christmas Eve, searching for an understanding of why he would go so far to undermine the union on the cusp of an apocalyptic collective bargaining brawl.

James advocated contraction of teams, the loss of jobs and furthered the make-believe revision that the 1980s had a deeper pool of talent with fewer teams. “Watered down,” he called the NBA, and ownership has been gifted such a public-relations coup in its historic campaign to crush the players’ union.
As one prominent agent said, “How do you say that right before collective bargaining? Does he get that he’s advocating to reduce the number of jobs in the league? LeBron has no idea what happens when he says [stuff] like this.”

What people don’t like now is how a two-time MVP would quit playing in the biggest playoff series of his life, or how a superstar would hijack the NBA Finals stage as a prelude to his free agency or how a star like James can manage the marketing of a rival like Chris Paul(notes). Whatever James’ personal preferences for a league littered with mini All-Star teams, his logic is forever flawed and based on nothing beyond his own myopic prism of the world.

The NBA is a far better, far more popular product today than it ever was in the 1980s, and that’ll be clearer again on Christmas when LeBron James and the Miami Heat play the Los Angeles Lakers at Staples Center. Already, this had promised to be a monumental meeting, but now it becomes so much bigger.

James has raised the stakes and raised ire. Across the floor, Kobe Bryant(notes) and union president Derek Fisher(notes) promise to be livid with such an important player selling out the players’ cause on the eve of the regular-season’s biggest game. Sometimes, James just talks and talks. Sometimes, he knows exactly what he’s doing. In this case, it almost doesn’t matter. The damage is done, and LeBron has breathed credibility into more of ownership’s absurd propaganda.

Here’s an irony, too: Recently, Bryant told Yahoo! Sports, “Hey, I’m a product of the 1980s. That’s the era that I watched and I admired. I do wish we could go back to the ’80s’ style of playing.”

He wasn’t talking about the concentration of star players, but the way the great ones didn’t have to be buddies, didn’t have to run around and gang up in free agency. Bryant loved the physicality, the unapologetic nature of the times. He was raised in Europe, and understands there were far fewer non-American stars in those days, justifiably fewer teams for a smaller pool of players. Now, there’s never been so much global basketball talent, and with proper ownership, management and revenue sharing among owners, the NBA doesn’t need to lose one team.

The 1980s were a romantic time in the sport, a golden era, but there weren’t more deeper, more talented teams in existence than today. It isn’t even close. The Lakers and Celtics were fantastic then, but they would have a hard time beating these Lakers and Celtics teams. Never mind the level of teams trying to beat San Antonio, Dallas, Chicago, Utah and on and on.

And how about the Spurs dynasty, whose eclectic, international roster couldn’t have existed in the 1980s? San Antonio illustrates why the NBA has a much deeper talent pool now, and that’s because of the influx of international players in the game. There are reasons to love the ’80s over today’s game, but that has more to do with the competitive disdain the teams had, the way the Celtics and Lakers, the Pistons and 76ers, hated each other. For James to insist the NBA should do away with the Minnesota Timberwolves and New jersey Nets so contenders could have Kevin Love(notes) or Devin Harris(notes) is preposterous.

The Timberwolves and Grizzlies are in such terrible shape because of ownership and management decisions. They’re messes because Stern has fostered so many incompetent ownership groups under his watch, and then pushed bad executives into small markets in political paybacks. James should understand these things, but doesn’t take the time – nor do the people surrounding him. When the Players Association wanted LeBron involved a couple of years ago, James’ camp insisted it must let his business manager, Maverick Carter, sit in on one of the big agent meetings. Carter isn’t an agent, but just plays one on his personal cable sports television network.

Here’s the case James could make, and he’d be right: The biggest stars in the sport – LeBron, Kobe, Dwyane Wade(notes) – are far underpaid with maximum contracts. And the rest of the league’s players? They’re mostly overpaid. Privately, Lakers owner Jerry Buss tells people that Bryant has been worth as much as $80 million a year to his franchise. Most of the players in the sport are interchangeable and never affect television ratings, ticket sales or merchandising. Yet, Kobe and LeBron – and before them Michael, Magic and Larry – are responsible for the sport’s immense popularity and profitability.

The Players Association is a one-man, one-vote entity, so you’ll never see it willing to sell out its self-interests for the elite to make $50 million a season. Owners created the max contract to cap the pay of the biggest stars, but ended up giving those deals out like cotton candy to the Rudy Gays and Joe Johnsons of the world. That’s on ownership, not the players.

Nevertheless, you have to give King James this credit: He’s embraced the villain role like no one before him and alienated people at a historically rapid rate. Now he’s isolating himself among his peers, and that’s a bold, unprecedented move on his part. The NBA has never had a superstar align himself with the interests of the commissioner and owners on the cusp of such a monumental fight, but understand this: It’s an edgy move that will win him favor in the league office.

This promises to be a lonely road for James, especially in the context of the game’s most important figures. When it comes to this CBA Armageddon, Kobe Bryant made himself clear to Yahoo! Sports weeks ago. “I’m 100 percent in this fight. I’m not going to just sit here and give back what guys have fought for in this league long before I got here – not for us now, or the players who come after us. I’m not backing down.”

Christmas Day at Staples Center, and the battle between basketball’s two biggest stars has never been framed with such a resounding, rigid narrative. Two worlds clashing now, two ways for everything to go in this sport. Suddenly, this is LeBron James vs. Kobe Bryant for the future of the National Basketball Association.
LeBron undermines union with comments - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I disagree with a couple of the points in that Yahoo article.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Remember what "successful" means to the NBA.

Not wins/losses. It means revenue generation. And Toronto is near the top of that list. The NBA knows that if they could put a winning team here, we would sell out every night. If we traded rosters with Atlanta today, we would sell out and Atlanta would be unchanged.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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LeBron James: I never said I advocated contraction - ESPN

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"That's crazy, because I had no idea what the word 'contraction' meant before I saw it on the Internet," James said after the Miami Heat's practice Monday. "I never even mentioned that. That word never even came out of my mouth. I was just saying how the league was back in the '80s and how it could be good again. I never said, 'Let's take some of the teams out.' "

........

"I'm with the players, and the players know that," James said Monday. "I've been with the players. It's not about getting guys out of the league or knocking teams out. I didn't mean to upset nobody. I didn't tell Avery Johnson to leave either. I didn't say let's abandon the Nets, and not let them move to Brooklyn or let's tear down the Target Center in Minnesota. I never said that."
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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he didn't actually say contraction, and he was generally rambling in a way that got focused by the guy writing the article more than him. Just another example of too much being made of something because of whose mouth it came out of.
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