Kobe passes MJ on career assist list - Page 2
Old 01-29-2013, 04:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Who cares? Kobe is a chucking ball hog who will never be better than Jodan. EVER. Stupid pompus asshole rapist at that.

jordan, the ball hog chucking gambling delinquent. stupid pompus asshole threatened and forced women to abort his adulterous children at that. what type of motherfucking idiot gets himself suspended from basketball for a season and a half anyways? what was his baseball average LOLLOLOLOLOL

he'll never be as good as magic johnson
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Lol Scottie Pippen is an all time great. I truly believe Jordan would not have won six without him. He still would have won, but not as much imo. Dude could nearly guard every position. In the finals back in 91 when he started guarding Magic full court, Magic had a hard time setting up the offence because of Pippen's defence and it completely changed the series.

Don't forget that Pippen played the role of the playmaker in the triangle, something that Kobe never had. Pippen could do it all. Kobe basically had to play the role of Pippen and Jordan in the triangle.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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hahaha

love funkie
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Lol Scottie Pippen is an all time great. I truly believe Jordan would not have won six without him. He still would have won, but not as much imo. Dude could nearly guard every position. In the finals back in 91 when he started guarding Magic full court, Magic had a hard time setting up the offence because of Pippen's defence and it completely changed the series.

Don't forget that Pippen played the role of the playmaker in the triangle, something that Kobe never had. Pippen could do it all. Kobe basically had to play the role of Pippen and Jordan in the triangle.
Um...are you saying Kobe had no help?
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Um...are you saying Kobe had no help?
No lol. I'm saying he didn't have a playmaker in the triangle like Jordan did. Not sure how you arrived at that.

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Old 01-29-2013, 06:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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lol dude...way to rig your argument. how do you go from considering kobe and shaq as a tandem while completely disregarding scottie pippen in your examination of michael jordan?

scottie pippen was a top 5 player in the league, basically averaged 19/8/5 through his prime, how can you just cast that aside? weak.
Pippen was great, but he was not the finals MVP 3 times...

Those Lakers' teams were Shaq's team with Kobe playing sidekick. Let's not forget that.

Jordan - 6 finals MVP
Shaq - 3 finals MVP
Duncan - 3 finals MVP
Kobe - 2 finals MVP

That list looks about right to me.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Pippen was great, but he was not the finals MVP 3 times...

Those Lakers' teams were Shaq's team with Kobe playing sidekick. Let's not forget that.

Jordan - 6 finals MVP
Shaq - 3 finals MVP
Duncan - 3 finals MVP
Kobe - 2 finals MVP

That list looks about right to me.
pippen should have been the MVP against the sonics and jazz. imo both pippen and rodman had a bigger impact than jordan did, but the mvp award doesn't consider shutting down players like kemp, malone, payton or stockton. you know, the important things.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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pippen should have been the MVP against the sonics and jazz. imo both pippen and rodman had a bigger impact than jordan did, but the mvp award doesn't consider shutting down players like kemp, malone, payton or stockton. you know, the important things.
the jazz series when he went for 32 ppg? or the one when he went for 33pg?

when was the last finals series where someone averaged 30+ppg and didn't win?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
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the jazz series when he went for 32 ppg? or the one when he went for 33pg?

when was the last finals series where someone averaged 30+ppg and didn't win?
Kevin Durant in 2012? lol, j/k
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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on the winning team i meant, sorry.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:06 PM   #31 (permalink)
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the jazz series when he went for 32 ppg? or the one when he went for 33pg?

when was the last finals series where someone averaged 30+ppg and didn't win?
should that matter? the mvp award isn't supposed to go the highest scorer, its supposed to go to the most valuable player. if you watched those series, not just some michael jordan chicago bulls documentary on their wins, you'll see that the play of both pippen and rodman were far more essential to their success than jordan's 32 and 33 points.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:16 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Kobe wants to be the greatest of all time, and to be honest, if he plays for another 4 -5 years doing the things he is now, he likely will be.

A little early to judge though.
Ya well... Kobe never played baseball for 2 or 3 years
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:46 AM   #33 (permalink)
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lol dude...way to rig your argument. how do you go from considering kobe and shaq as a tandem while completely disregarding scottie pippen in your examination of michael jordan?

scottie pippen was a top 5 player in the league, basically averaged 19/8/5 through his prime, how can you just cast that aside? weak.
I mentioned pipped right in my post as being the only true help Jordan had. Man read what I post before just deciding to quote it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:54 AM   #34 (permalink)
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should that matter? the mvp award isn't supposed to go the highest scorer, its supposed to go to the most valuable player. if you watched those series, not just some michael jordan chicago bulls documentary on their wins, you'll see that the play of both pippen and rodman were far more essential to their success than jordan's 32 and 33 points.
Lol Jordan standing on the court is as big of an impact as you would ever need. Just the threat of what he could and more than likely would do is enough, you force people to pay attention to you, and leave more and more open for your team.

Not arguing against pippen, he deserved it just as much.

Take out Jordan and Pippen never would of won anything on his own, maybe 1 or 2 rings.. MAYBE.

Take out Kobe and Shaq still could have, and would have won some rings, he could carry a team no problem and take them wherever he wanted.

On the flip side of all that, not to discredit anything at all that he did, but Jordan could of won without Pipped, probably almost as many times. Kobe, could not, and would not won in those years without Shaq.


You can all have whatever opinion you want of course, but in my mind Kobe isn't, nor will he ever be the greatest of all time. Not even #2 in my opinion.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:58 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Take out Kobe and Shaq still could have, and would have won some rings, he could carry a team no problem and take them wherever he wanted.
The 2000 Trail Blazers and the 2002 Sacramento Kings say hi.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:19 AM   #36 (permalink)
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The 2000 Trail Blazers and the 2002 Sacramento Kings say hi.
And your point is? Not being a dick, but I'm not quite sure if I get where you went with that, I have an idea, but before I respond I'd much rather make sure I'm interperting that how you meant.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:45 AM   #37 (permalink)
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And your point is? Not being a dick, but I'm not quite sure if I get where you went with that, I have an idea, but before I respond I'd much rather make sure I'm interperting that how you meant.
My point is, it's debatable whether Shaq would have even got to the finals in 2000 and 2002 without Kobe. They needed each other to get out of the very difficult Western conference those years. You can't just take out Kobe and assume Shaq wins those titles. I just think you might be underestimating Kobe's contribution to those teams a little bit.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:00 AM   #38 (permalink)
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My point is, it's debatable whether Shaq would have even got to the finals in 2000 and 2002 without Kobe. They needed each other to get out of the very difficult Western conference those years. You can't just take out Kobe and assume Shaq wins those titles. I just think you might be underestimating Kobe's contribution to those teams a little bit.
I remain in the thought that he could of, thats obviously making the assumption that whatever SG they would of done the job of scoring some points to get them there (It's LA, not like they would of had a scrub there)

So yes I still do think he could of. Put Jordan on any team you could possbily think of, and although he might not win it all, he'd carry anything to the playofs, probably deep playoffs.

Like I said, its all a matter of opinion, as much as you all think I'm underrating Kobe (which I may be slightly) I think you all massively overrate Mr Chuck. Give any of the other good SGs (and I obviously mean like upper tier) the same chance kobe had, and the same teams. They'd of done just about as well as Kobe, not quite as good obviously, but they wouldn't be far behind where is now.

When you play teams stacked with talent like Kobe ALWAYS has you're numbers are going to skyrocket, why? Because you can't focus all on one player if they'res star caliber players all over the place.

Also look what Kobe did every time he didn't have the absolute best team in the NBA around him? He bitched and complained and wanted out and cried until the team put another powerhouse around him because he can't do it on his own.

Look at the team he has now? And look how pathetic they've done up to this point, because he couldn't stop his ego and just chucked and chucked? Ya fucking amazing player he is (Notice how they're doing better now that he finally stopped?). Put a team like that with Jordan even in the later stages of his career and he'd of blown the entire league away and probably would of set the wins record or came close. I admit the injuries to the team would of set them back a bit, but no excuse for it being this bad. Kobe's ego destroys things, it doesn't win.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:10 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Well, Shaq had some good players around him before Kobe was old enough to help him in the 2000s. Shaq played with Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell and Nick Van Exel. So he had a pretty good backcourt and PF, but still couldn't get it done.

Maybe Jordan would have done more with Kobe's current lineup. Maybe. But at the same age Jordan had Pippen, Kukoc, and Rodman, one of the best rebounders/defensive PFs to ever play the game. It was a good system team with players that fit the roles. Still, they had trouble getting past the Pacers when Jordan was Kobe's age. So who knows?

I'm not inclined to go much further with this, because I think Jordan is better. I just don't think the gap is big.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:18 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Well, Shaq had some good players around him before Kobe was old enough to help him in the 2000s. Shaq played with Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell and Nick Van Exel. So he had a pretty good backcourt and PF, but still couldn't get it done.

Maybe Jordan would have done more with Kobe's current lineup. Maybe. But at the same age Jordan had Pippen, Kukoc, and Rodman, one of the best rebounders/defensive PFs to ever play the game. It was a good system team with players that fit the roles. Still, they had trouble getting past the Pacers when Jordan was Kobe's age. So who knows?

I'm not inclined to go much further with this, because I think Jordan is better. I just don't think the gap is super huge.
No I agree it isn't a huge gap. Of course hes still ONE of the greatest to ever play, but he wont ever be the greatest in my opinion. He can continue to play and pad his stats all he wants, doesn't make him any better.

Far as "skill in their prime" goes, I already consider Lebron better than Kobe, does way more for a team than Kobe does, while scoring plenty as well. Hell even KD is working his way up there in my eyes. But he has a team around him, Lebron did it with literally nobody in Cleveland, and almost won a ring still.
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