Kobe: "I don't take charges". - Page 4
Old 05-18-2012, 02:41 PM   #61 (permalink)
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all good brother good intentions, I was just trashing ya big time in it. youre good in my books, promise
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClutchCity View Post
Look at jumpman's avatar, that's what happens when you try to take charges
what? you win in 6 and get back to back mvp awards?
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:02 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Taking charges because of preserving longevity is a dumb comment.

Taking charges is not a crucial element of team defense - although it's effective and there are plenty of players like Collison who have made a career out of it.

What is crucial is getting position in front of the offensive player

30 seconds left - people usually stop taking charges - why? Because the officials stop calling them - it's to risky.

When it comes right down to it, players of Kobe, LBJ's caliber etc don't want to leave it up to an official to make the call, they stand their ground and make sure the player misses the shot.

Taking a charge is inherently risky because you're taking yourself out of the play and relying on a referee to make a call.
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:43 PM   #64 (permalink)
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agreed.

But again, like you mentioned, that wasn't why he said he didn't take them.

Anyhow, I like taking charges, well, liked, I'd rather die nowadays!

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Old 05-18-2012, 03:58 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
Taking charges because of preserving longevity is a dumb comment.

Taking charges is not a crucial element of team defense - although it's effective and there are plenty of players like Collison who have made a career out of it.

What is crucial is getting position in front of the offensive player

30 seconds left - people usually stop taking charges - why? Because the officials stop calling them - it's to risky.

When it comes right down to it, players of Kobe, LBJ's caliber etc don't want to leave it up to an official to make the call, they stand their ground and make sure the player misses the shot.

Taking a charge is inherently risky because you're taking yourself out of the play and relying on a referee to make a call.
Agreed. Dumb comment by Kobe (preserve longevity? lol), nonetheless taking charges seems to be what Rap fans look for in a defensive player, which is even stupider.

Let's sign Derek Fisher to a $100 million contract for being the defensive juggernaut that he is. Solves all our defensive woes.
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:50 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jumplvlan23 View Post
Agreed. Dumb comment by Kobe (preserve longevity? lol), nonetheless taking charges seems to be what Rap fans look for in a defensive player, which is even stupider.

Let's sign Derek Fisher to a $100 million contract for being the defensive juggernaut that he is. Solves all our defensive woes.
Not sure where you got that idea..... Taking a charge is PART of playing defense... not the end all and be all. No one likes to floppers but there's a big difference between guys who flop 24/7 and guys who aren't afraid to sacrifice their bodies to make a play.
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:53 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by XiaominWu View Post
"i don't take charges"
"i'm not going to dunk anymore"
"i'm just gonna keep going even if she says no"

just because it works out for kobe, doesn't mean it's good advice.
Lol too funny! Shame on me.
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:10 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Not sure where you got that idea..... Taking a charge is PART of playing defense... not the end all and be all. No one likes to floppers but there's a big difference between guys who flop 24/7 and guys who aren't afraid to sacrifice their bodies to make a play.
It's part of playing defense, but by no means is it integral (just like being able to dunk in a flashy manner). Like I mentioned in a previous post which got deleted, KG, Kidd, Duncan, Artest, etc. are all great defenders and probably the best of this decade at their respective positions. Yet even in their primes they did not rely on drawing offensive fouls.

They play their men straight up, but sacrifice their bodies chasing after lose balls, etc. There are other, more natural, ways of sacrificing your body for the good of the team than by slipping under someone going to the rim and embellishing the contact in the hope of fooling the ref. Give me a defender who can shut down their opposition and make them play less than average on the offensive end, over someone who is able to take a charge less than once a game. The best player at drawing offensive fouls in this league is Varejoe, and he runs away with that distinction, yet he draws offensive fouls at a rate of less than once a game.

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Old 05-18-2012, 05:15 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jumplvlan23 View Post
It's part of playing defense, but by no means is it integral (just like being able to dunk in a flashy manner). Like I mentioned in a previous post which got deleted, KG, Kidd, Duncan, Artest, etc. are all great defenders and probably the best of this decade at their respective positions. Yet even in their primes they did not rely on drawing offensive fouls.

They play their men straight up, but sacrifice their bodies chasing after lose balls, etc. There are other, more natural, ways of sacrificing your body for the good of the team than by slipping under someone going to the rim and embellishing the contact in the hope of fooling the ref. Give me a defender who can shut down their opposition and make them play less than average on the offensive end, over someone who is able to take a charge less than once a game. The best player at drawing offensive fouls in this league is Varejoe, and he runs away with that distinction, yet he draws offensive fouls at a rate of less than once a game.
You're describing floppers again... which isn't what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that Kobe SHOULD flop more (or at all)... but when he comes out and says "I'm not taking charges because they hurt"... well.... sorry... just doesn't sit right with me.
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
You're describing floppers again... which isn't what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that Kobe SHOULD flop more (or at all)... but when he comes out and says "I'm not taking charges because they hurt"... well.... sorry... just doesn't sit right with me.
It was stupid to say charges hurt. Kobe is in a fucked up mindset right now with the way he and his team is playing. Definitely not in his finest form. PS, just last game he did try to take a charge on Harden, and failed miserably.

To be honest, most of the time when a charge is called, it is the result of the defender flopping due to minimal contact, NOT because an offensive player was charging around with no regard for human life. But hey, the defender's feet were "set" for a split second before the offensive player got to that spot so by the letter of the law, its a charging foul as the defender crashes to the floor flailing his arms around.

However, the spirit of the charging rule is to stop offensive players from barrelling over players who have an established position on the court. The rule wasn't instilled to give defenders a new TOOL in playing defense. Because refs in professional leagues ref by the letter of the law, defenders now have a tool. However, in pick-up games charging is almost never called why? Because the SPIRIT of the law rules trumps the LETTER and charges only get called where it is blatantly obvious (which isn't a huge occurrence).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the charging rule was put into place as a deterrant. It was meant to stop offensive players from getting to a position on the court with their head down "charging" through anyone that came in their way. Instead, the charging rule has become a TOOL for the defenders rather than a DETERRANT for the offensive player.

To get the charging call, MOST OFTEN defenders WILL FLOP because if they hadn't, the refs would not blow the whistle. If you do a quick youtube search of flops in the NBA on the defensive end, almost all of them are the result of players embellishing contact on the defensive end to draw a charge. It's pretty pathetic, just as dumb as Kobe's statement of not taking them cuz "they hurt." But it doesn't make Kobe or anyone else who don't take charges any less of a great defender, just ask Garnett, Duncan, etc.

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Old 05-18-2012, 05:51 PM   #71 (permalink)
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It was stupid to say charges hurt. Kobe is in a fucked up mindset right now with the way he and his team is playing. Definitely not in his finest form. PS, just last game he did try to take a charge on Harden, and failed miserably.

To be honest, most of the time when a charge is called, it is the result of the defender flopping due to minimal contact, NOT because an offensive player was charging around with no regard for human life. But hey, the defender's feet were "set" for a split second before the offensive player got to that spot so by the letter of the law, its a charging foul as the defender crashes to the floor flailing his arms around.

However, the spirit of the charging rule is to stop offensive players from barrelling over players who have an established position on the court. The rule wasn't instilled to give defenders a new TOOL in playing defense. Because refs in professional leagues ref by the letter of the law, defenders now have a tool. However, in pick-up games charging is almost never called why? Because the SPIRIT of the law rules of the LETTER and charges only get called where it is blatantly obvious (which isn't a huge occurrence).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the charging rule was put into place as a deterrant. It was meant to stop offensive players from getting to a position on the court with their head down "charging" through anyone that came in their way. Instead, the charging rule has become a TOOL for the defenders rather than a DETERRANT for the offensive player.

To get the charging call, MOST OFTEN defenders WILL FLOP because if they hadn't, the refs would not blow the whistle. If you do a quick youtube search of flops in the NBA on the defensive end, almost all of them are the result of players embellishing contact on the defensive end to draw a charge. It's pretty pathetic, just as dumb as Kobe's statement of not taking them cuz "they hurt." But it doesn't make Kobe or anyone else who don't take charges any less of a great defender, just ask Garnett, Duncan, etc.
You're right with everything that you said up there... but I'm 99.9% sure that I've seen KG and Duncan take a charge before.

The Vlade Divac-like flopping in the post is what pisses most people off.

I have no problem with guys stepping in front of out of control players when they put their head down at half court and someone steps in front of them to nullify the play.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:08 PM   #72 (permalink)
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You're right with everything that you said up there... but I'm 99.9% sure that I've seen KG and Duncan take a charge before.

The Vlade Divac-like flopping in the post is what pisses most people off.

I have no problem with guys stepping in front of out of control players when they put their head down at half court and someone steps in front of them to nullify the play.
I don't either but realistically how often does a charging call like that ever happen? Most of them are from flopping.

And I've seen Kobe take a charge before as well, but its not in the minds of MOST defensive greats to take one in the game.

I even have stats from 2005-06 and 06-07 seasons (can't find any other stats on drawing offensive fouls from more recent seasons), which show the top 35 offensive foul drawers in the league, and the top 3 on each team. None of the players I mentioned were on any of these lists (not even top 3 on their own teams).

For example, Duncan played 80 games in the 05-06 season, and wasn't in the top 3 in offensive fouls drawn on his team. Nesterovic was 3rd on the Spurs that year, and he had 12 the WHOLE SEASON. Thus, Duncan should have had a lot less. Also, these stats shows offensive fouls drawn, not specifically charges, thus the numbers should be even less.

Rasheed Wallace, another defensive great I failed to mention, drew 14 offensive fouls (more than any of the players I discussed previously) in a season where he played 80 games (that amounts to less than one offensive foul drawn every FIVE games). The number of charges he took that season was perhaps even less.

I can go on and on and on.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:19 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Just so everyone here knows I have seen Kobe take a charge many times over the past 4-5 years so its not like he doesn't take charges at all...
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:37 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Just so everyone here knows I have seen Kobe take a charge many times over the past 4-5 years so its not like he doesn't take charges at all...
No, he doesn't take charges. He also prefers personal accolades over winning.

...

Jks, I'm just talking out of my ass.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:18 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I don't either but realistically how often does a charging call like that ever happen? Most of them are from flopping.

And I've seen Kobe take a charge before as well, but its not in the minds of MOST defensive greats to take one in the game.

I even have stats from 2005-06 and 06-07 seasons (can't find any other stats on drawing offensive fouls from more recent seasons), which show the top 35 offensive foul drawers in the league, and the top 3 on each team. None of the players I mentioned were on any of these lists (not even top 3 on their own teams).

For example, Duncan played 80 games in the 05-06 season, and wasn't in the top 3 in offensive fouls drawn on his team. Nesterovic was 3rd on the Spurs that year, and he had 12 the WHOLE SEASON. Thus, Duncan should have had a lot less. Also, these stats shows offensive fouls drawn, not specifically charges, thus the numbers should be even less.

Rasheed Wallace, another defensive great I failed to mention, drew 14 offensive fouls (more than any of the players I discussed previously) in a season where he played 80 games (that amounts to less than one offensive foul drawn every FIVE games). The number of charges he took that season was perhaps even less.

I can go on and on and on.
Why are you comparing Kobe to big men though? Duncan, KG and Wallace were/are great shotblockers.... those guys rarely take charges because they're usually try to send your shit outta there.

At any rate, the point I'm trying to make is that coming out and SAYING that you're not going to take charges just isn't a smart thing to do. Who knows? Other players may feel the same way, but they keep that opinion to themselves rather than sharing it with the press. That's the smart thing to do IMO.
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