Kobe to have surgery after Olympics - Page 3
Old 08-01-2008, 10:41 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ACIEEARL40 View Post
After reading this I guess there is really nothing left to say...
obviously you can name a few more players, but that list will be short.
and thats only the big time players of that generation.... the standouts.
seriously, name more then 10 players of that era that would be superstars in todays game.
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:44 AM   #42 (permalink)
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http://aol.nba.com/history/50greatest.html

save us the troubles

one thing you can't take away from these guys are legacy

99% of todays players will be forgotten a year after they retire.
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:56 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TuggleBled View Post
http://aol.nba.com/history/50greatest.html



99% of todays players will be forgotten a year after they retire.
exactly.
and you know why? because theres so many talented players nowadays that even the above average guys get forgotten.

just take a look at that link you put there..
actually click on the players.
when we look at the list are we looking at stats in general.. or will you say that stats mean shit and they dont count for shit?

just take a few guys for example...
Paul Arizin... 22ppg 8 rebs.
what makes him so special? "he created the jump shot"... wow.

David Bing... 20ppg 6 assists
what makes him so special? he was fast

Dave DeBusschere
16 ppg 11 rebs
what makes him so special? he had great work ethic

Bill Sharmin
17ppg 3 assists
what makes him so special?
he was one of the first NBA guards to push his field-goal percentage above .400 for a season


if you can seriously explain how these man would be a superstar in 2008 i would love to hear it.
these are 4 guys from the top 50 list who wouldnt even be good enough to play NCAA ball in the year 2008.
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:11 AM   #44 (permalink)
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STATS! OMG!

try impact on the game, championships. these players on their because they mean something to the game that's everlasting. you don't think for a second that the next generation of players sat around using these players moves in their drive-ways pretending to be them..... you're not grasping something very important. It was these players who did it, now it's those players that copy it.

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Old 08-01-2008, 11:24 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Listen.

Players from the 60s and 70s would not last in today's NBA. If you put the best MVPs from the 60s and 70s and put them in today's NBA, they wouldn't be as good as they perform back then. Wilt Chamberlain. Put him in today's NBA and he wouldn't last. Shaq, Amare and Yao would just sit him down on his butt.

Another thing. Why do you think most of the records were broken 30-40 years ago instead of 5-15 years ago?
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:29 AM   #46 (permalink)
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we're not talking about time machines that'll bring players from then into todays games. that's just stupid. i think generation talks are meaningless. all they show is how you have little respect for the generations of old because you're too lazy to read about the greatness of their own achievements.

Listen. Shut the fuck up. <---smiley face
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:42 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Woah woah woah... a Kobe argument without me?
I'll get into this later.. because I have to brush my teeth. So excuse me for a couple minutes because I just woke up.
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:45 AM   #48 (permalink)
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all they show is how you have little respect for the generations of old because you're too lazy to read about the greatness of their own achievements.
and you have zero respect for today's players because you are too ignorant to accept the achievements they are accomplishing now.

you write off today's players because what? they are copycats? or they aren't classic role models?

having respect for great players of the past is one thing... but saying that they are better than players of today is another.
the players of the 50's, 60's etc molded the game today. and should be considered great because of what they did... but saying these men would be as great now is absurd.
the arguement here was that if you put Kobe in the 60's, he would be a nobody. and that is absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:57 AM   #49 (permalink)
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right, because i go around disrespecting todays players all the time.

you're having a hard time with this

of course todays athletes are better, they have some many services expendable to them, so many enhancing drugs, trainers, transportation. everything that makes life easier.

the point is, kobe learnt from jordan, jordan learnt from dr.j.....without these players, a large piece of their game would be gone.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:03 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TuggleBled View Post

the point is, kobe learnt from jordan, jordan learnt from dr.j.....without these players, a large piece of their game would be gone.
you win the arguement with that statement right there.
so i wont diss the greats.
i'll give you that.

but the whle reason this debate started was because someone said that kobe would be a nobody if he played in the 70's, or that players from 2008 wouldnt be able to play alongside players of the past (60's, 70's, etc) and thats ridiculous.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:04 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Ok,

I've stayed out of this long enough. Why is it that we're saying that yesteryear's player's would hold no relevance essentially in today's NBA. The skill level of many of the players in the past was unheard of. Many had natural talent. Place that skill level and talent in the hands of today's structures (starting from elementary school onwards) and I sincerely doubt they would only be "fringe NCCAers".

I don't understand why some people here are thinking that JUST because they played in the 60s-70s they wouldn't be good players because today's players are more skilled. Put it this way, without the players in the 60s and 70s many of the skills perfected today wouldn't even hold any relevance. Again, give those guys, the advantages that today's players hold and then analyze. Base this simply on skill and the players prior circa 2000 are far more skilled.

As for the Wilt comment made by Major. Please do your research ON Wilt. He was an athletic freak of nature, saying that Amare or whomever who plant him on his ass never watched a MOMENT of Wilt play be it in person or on classic television. Again, give him the advantages today's athlete has and he would still be a beast.

The main problem with today's players are simply they don't base a lot of it on a lot of skill but just go on their talent. What made players fun to watch then was to see the talent and skill intermingle. Josh Smith with a little bit of skill added to his game could be one of the best players I've ever seen; same with Amare; etc. That's the difference between now and then imo.

As for Kobe, he does some great things and is in my opinion, one of the best basketball players I've ever seen. The only problem I have with him are his selfish tendencies. There are still one too many times where he feels he can do it all and this to me is what holds him back. Maybe there's justifiable reasons for it....possibly not. But he's a good example of a player who utilizes both his talent AND his skill.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:07 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Sounds like excuses to me.

If he's hurt so badly, why is he playing in the Olympics?
Sounds like excuses? Do you know what he has been diagnosed with? I say you should do a little research before making comments like that. Before I get into detail about the extent of Kobe's injury, I want to tell you why he wants to play in the Olympics.

Kobe Bryant wants to play in the Olympics because it is an HONOUR to play for your country. He realizes this and so he is ready to play. He is not out there to get endorsement deals, he is out there to play for his country. It is unfair to say that he is doing otherwise.

Now back to his injury...
Kobe Bryant was diagnosed with a complete tear of the radial collateral ligament, an avulsion fracture, and a volar plate injury at the MCP joint of the small finger of this right hand. The damage occurred when Bryant dislocated the finger in the Lakersí game at New jersey on February 5, and was aggravated a couple games after in Minnesota.

I'm sure you know there is significant pain when you dislocate your finger... and to aggravate it is even worse. Now I'm sure there aren't very many doctors reading these forums, but a little google search doesn't kill anybody to find out what exactly is wrong with Kobe's shooting hand.

Injury to the radial collateral ligament: causes significant pain and significant limitation of the movement in the wrist. Kobe has completely torn this ligament.

Alvusion fracture: causes a ligament or tendon to tear from the bone it is attached to. So basically, Kobe's finger is hanging limply and not attached to the rest of his hand except in any way except for muscle and flesh.

Volar plate injury at the MCP joint:
Volar plate injury most commonly results from landing on the hands, but with the wrist too straight. This puts the initial force on the fingers, bending them back too far.

This is all on his pinky finger of his SHOOTING HAND!
Doctors had advised him to have immediate surgery, which would cause him to miss six weeks.

That shit sounds pretty hurtful if you ask me... but of course nothing sounds painful to the might AcieEarl....
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:15 PM   #53 (permalink)
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ughhhh, i liked this topic more when we were argueing past and present.... not sucking kobe's balls or hating him.

truth be told, i hate him, but he's damn good.
injury or not, he's always been a competitor, so i doubt theres any 'faking' involved.

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Old 08-01-2008, 12:17 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Ever heard of cortisone injections?

I've heard about all the wonderful things he did while hurt. Well, what's more wonderful than winning a championship?

Kobe Bryant is playing so he can be a national hero and make people forget his tarnished reputation and he can make Nike, Coke and Spaulding happy.

And young man, I've played hockey with torn ligaments in my ankle, so don't talk to me about pain.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ACIEEARL40 View Post

Kobe Bryant is playing so he can be a national hero and make people forget his tarnished reputation and he can make Nike, Coke and Spaulding happy.

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Old 08-01-2008, 12:33 PM   #56 (permalink)
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One of the greats in a watered down league where he plays against guys who the closest they would've got to the NBA 20, 30, 40 years ago would've been to buy a ticket to a game?
Are you saying that Kobe wouldn't dominate the game 20, 30, 40 years ago? If you are saying that, then you are delusional.... The Kobe Bryant that you see today would have been the best player to ever play the game in any era, and you know why? Zone defense.... many people fail to remember that the zone defense was illegal prior to the 2001-2002 NBA season. Back then, it was all about isolation, where players were forced to play their man one vs. one. Zone defense discourages one on one, which results in Kobe having to face double, triple teams every single time down the court. Gone are the days when superstars can simply isolate their man.

Defenses are better, stronger than they have ever been. The players are stronger, quicker, faster than they have ever been. To think that Kobe wouldn't absolutely dominate in a league with no zone defense and weaker, slower, players is ridiculous and if you don't think so, then I'm sorry you definitely are a hater, no matter how much people hate hearing that word.

Unlike eras past, especially the Jordan era, today's NBA is not an isolation brand of basketball. Zone defenses are are effective because they play the percentages. It forces dominant players out of the paint and into lower percentage shots. It forces great players to distribute the ball to the perimeter.

Here is a video detailing Kobe vs. the zone defense... I highly suggest you watch it before arguing my points any further...

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Old 08-01-2008, 12:35 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Kobe Bryant is playing so he can be a national hero and make people forget his tarnished reputation and he can make Nike, Coke and Spaulding happy.
The hate you have for this guy is fuckin' unbelievable...
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:38 PM   #58 (permalink)
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The hate you have for this guy is fuckin' unbelievable...
The hate?

You mean the part where I said he was the most talented player in the league today?

The love you and every other fanboy has for him is unnatural and quite frankly a bit scary.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:44 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Are you saying that Kobe wouldn't dominate the game 20, 30, 40 years ago? If you are saying that, then you are delusional.... The Kobe Bryant that you see today would have been the best player to ever play the game in any era, and you know why? Zone defense.... many people fail to remember that the zone defense was illegal prior to the 2001-2002 NBA season. Back then, it was all about isolation, where players were forced to play their man one vs. one. Zone defense discourages one on one, which results in Kobe having to face double, triple teams every single time down the court. Gone are the days when superstars can simply isolate their man.

Defenses are better, stronger than they have ever been. The players are stronger, quicker, faster than they have ever been. To think that Kobe wouldn't absolutely dominate in a league with no zone defense and weaker, slower, players is ridiculous and if you don't think so, then I'm sorry you definitely are a hater, no matter how much people hate hearing that word.

Unlike eras past, especially the Jordan era, today's NBA is not an isolation brand of basketball. Zone defenses are are effective because they play the percentages. It forces dominant players out of the paint and into lower percentage shots. It forces great players to distribute the ball to the perimeter.

Here is a video detailing Kobe vs. the zone defense... I highly suggest you watch it before arguing my points any further...

I'm saying Kobe would've got sat down on his fluffy little ass by Wilt, Russell, Unseld, Gilmore, Bellamy et al. No star treatment, no tic-tac fouls...
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:45 PM   #60 (permalink)
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The hate?

You mean the part where I said he was the most talented player in the league today?

The love you and every other fanboy has for him is unnatural and quite frankly a bit scary.
Hate in another sense... what makes you think he is playing to act as a hero for USA basketball? What makes you think that?

People should just stop being so busy hating on Kobe Bryant, and just start to enjoy a living legend play basketball at one of the highest levels any human has taken this sport.
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