Kobe has a Kwame Brown Story - Page 3
Old 10-10-2011, 11:53 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:39 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I guess you're right, I jus wish dudes could talk about things without having to always rip other people down... it isn't needed.
Actually it is needed, on multiple fronts. Here's why:

1) He's the most mentally prepared player in the game who is speaking to a psychology classroom; while he's given all he's got, he's pointing out two people, Kwame Brown & Smush Parker, who were given EVERY ELITE opportunity to be put in positions to succeed, yet never bothered to put in the work that he did. Really, why did Andrew Bynum develop, and Kwame didn't? And why did Shannon Brown develop, and Smush didn't? Let's remember that more teams gave those players chances than what Shannon got.

1-A) Kwame was on a contract paying him $8M a year during his tenure w/the Lakers (& let's also not forget they traded a proven player & character guy in Caron Butler to acquire him). Where's the accountability if a guy is saying 'Don't gimme the ball even though I'm wide open at the basket' despite making an elite roleplayer's salary? It's dispicable even for guys on minimum deals to do that at the professional level (which is more than most professionals in other industries make), so it's so much worse for guys making $8M/yr to do that. It's even more dispicable when Kwame has had all the opportunities he's had at that point, 6.5yrs worth, and didn't do anything w/it (compare that w/2011 NBA Champion Tyson Chandler, the 2nd overall pick after Kwame; he gives his all no matter what, has gotten big praise from all the big names who've worked with him, and is exceedingly coachable).

Kwame not putting in the work paved the way for those shyster agents to create a market to overpay for Kwame ("Washington wasn't a good situation for him! That's why he didn't develop! Juss wait for what the change of scenery will do for him! Juss you wait.....and wait.....and wait), and thus overpay for elite roleplayers as if they're stars, and then overpay for stars as if they're superstars, and thereof eliminate players who do deserve better development & financial opportunities from getting a fair share in accordance w/their abilities, such as juniors & seniors not picked in the lottery...

....for example, who is a better big man to invest in: Kwame Brown, or Luke Harangody? To put this in simpler terms, who'd you rather invest in to be your first big man off the bench? The center who has an NBA body, but absolutely no testicular fortitude, & no work ethic despite receiving plenty of opportunities that other players would die for. Or the wierd lookin white kid who if you saw on the street, would never believe he plays NBA ball, yet has an offensive game that fits in ANY offensive system and strong enough defensive heart, hustle, etc. that he fits in ANY defensive system? And he's got a motor that doesn't quit, thus making him a joy to watch and I'm sure a joy to coach and/or be a teammate of.

So yeah, Kobe outing Kwame dispels whatever myth agents could put out for GM's/owners to overpay for his scrub ass, and thus puts the total NBA fiscal market in better balance - a balance that has been further enhanced since the age-limit rule that requires American players to play at least 1yr of college. Since that rule became in effect from 2006 onward, juss look at how good the subsequent drafts have been in comparison w/the drafts (and then the free agent market thereafter) before that, which featured the likes of Kwame.

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that's just mean it's like the Lakers were trying to punk him LOL.
From a coaching perspective, it's unethical if they were doing this to a player who was in his 1st two yrs in the league (unless the player has ego issues, of course). But in this situation, the most likely conclusions is they were tryna see if their GM jobbed them into paying Kwame $8M/yr. In the 1st few plays, Kwame wasn't a primary on the play yet he still fucked those plays up. When they got the ball to him w/his back to the basket in order to get him in some semblance of rythm, he had a clear physical advantage (he's juss as athletic & strong as anyone, and he's got long arms, good mobility, and plenty of time has been invested in him), but he juss flubbed those plays as well even though Amare played below-par defense in those days. He even threw a careless pass the 3rd time they let him post up.

I don't take Phil not listening to Kobe in this instance as him contesting Kobe due to any ego issues. That business was over & done with before Kwame got to LAL. And let's not make any apologies for Kwame. This is the same asshole that decided to dig his hands in to throw a stranger's own birthday cake at him. Not only is he a bum, he's also a fuckin douchebag.

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I thought his behavior during the game, as a teammate, was pretty bad, and typical for Kobe. Insisting that the coach take a guy out of the game? That's the sort of thing that makes me dislike him, beyond him just being a Laker. I could muster up a lot of respect for other Laker greats, but I have none for this guy. I just hate the way he approaches the game with his multiple agendas.
Dude, Kobe did nothing but tell the boss that a co-worker isn't pulling his weight and thus is a weak link in the face of the availability of more mentally stable workers. He was seeking to get rid of dead weight and instead seek players who aren't afraid of being pro's - as in PROfessional.

There's no multiple agenda w/Kobe. Rather, that shit is for Lebitch, as I pointed out in another thread awhile ago, here (it's a long post): Pippen says LBJ might be better than MJ

Speaking of which, to be fair to Kwame, I'm sure he would've developed better w/Lebitch instead of with Micheal & Kobe. At least w/Lebitch, Kwame could get away w/not showing up, as it'd be obscured by the fact that neither does Lebitch.

Last edited by bladeofBG; 10-11-2011 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:48 AM   #43 (permalink)
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LX and Superjudge are just hating. I'm no where near a Kobe fan and I saw it straight from the get go.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:55 AM   #44 (permalink)
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LX and Superjudge are just hating. I'm no where near a Kobe fan and I saw it straight from the get go.
I dunno man I dunno. They made some pretty sound arguments, like how they hate Kobe and stuff.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:56 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I dunno man I dunno. They made some pretty sound arguments, like how they hate Kobe and stuff.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:20 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Kobe can do no wrong. He had every right to be furious with his coach and GM. I mean they lost a game. And he's Kobe. What the fuck was I thinking. Accept my deepest apologies.

On another note, there was a stretch of games where Kwame was doing pretty well, and Kobe got a good deal of the credit for that. Funny how there was no need for antics then. Go Kobe. Show those haters that your knees are just fine. You are and always will be Kobe. Tell us your marvelous stories. There must be some good ones where Rudy T became a shell of his former self. What an asshole that guy was huh Kobe?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:11 AM   #47 (permalink)
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LX and Superjudge are just hating. I'm no where near a Kobe fan and I saw it straight from the get go.
Hating?

Grow up man. there is a way to conduct yourself as a professional. You don't need to drag people through the mud long after the fact to help aid you in any story about the past. Honestly, this isn't very complicated.

I may have the advantage of a few years on ya, and honestly, I think in this situation it might make a difference. Kobe is in a business, and in a business there are ethics. You can call a guy out on the spot, or in the room/ boardroom, but after that, it stays silent, OR if it has to be discussed, it's discussed with respect.

I could tell the same story Kobe did, without mentioning one name, and get the same result, same chuckles, same everything, WITHOUT making it a point to tear down the guys in questions. People likely already know who he's talking about, and if they don't it isn't important that they do.

So, 007, I respect what you're thnking, or saying, but I assure you, this doesn't come from a place of hate. Ok? It's just sound business ethics, and character. The best don't need to stomp the worst. They only shine brighter when they don't.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:56 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I'm not saying Kobe's a good teammate, because as much as I love the dude, he's a douchebag times 10 000. But I really can't understand the hate for this. I can understand debating over whether he should've shared the story or not, but what he did on the court can definitely be justified.
This pretty much sums up everything.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:13 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Feeling entitled to tell your coach to bench the Center you were getting props for making look good, and then getting all dramatic when your coach does not allow you to usurp his decision-making responsibilities, does not sit well with me no matter who the player might be. With Kobe it does sound very typical, and I guess that might make it easy to see as justifiable. There's no doubt that there was an issue that had to be settled. I don't see how anybody thinks Kobe's actions were helpful in that sense. And then for him to wallow in self-pity afterwards, about what he had to go through, when he creates so many of his own problems, is just obnoxious.

The dude should have confronted Kwame and told him to get ready. Instead he wanted to make sure a message was sent - poor Kobe was not happy with the scrubs he had to play with. Of course if you're Kobe that might just be peachy, and I guess I might be failing to fully understand that - happily.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:03 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Feeling entitled to tell your coach to bench the Center you were getting props for making look good, and then getting all dramatic when your coach does not allow you to usurp his decision-making responsibilities, does not sit well with me no matter who the player might be. With Kobe it does sound very typical, and I guess that might make it easy to see as justifiable. There's no doubt that there was an issue that had to be settled. I don't see how anybody thinks Kobe's actions were helpful in that sense. And then for him to wallow in self-pity afterwards, about what he had to go through, when he creates so many of his own problems, is just obnoxious.

The dude should have confronted Kwame and told him to get ready. Instead he wanted to make sure a message was sent - poor Kobe was not happy with the scrubs he had to play with. Of course if you're Kobe that might just be peachy, and I guess I might be failing to fully understand that - happily.

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Dude, Kobe did nothing but tell the boss that a co-worker isn't pulling his weight and thus is a weak link in the face of the availability of more mentally stable workers. He was seeking to get rid of dead weight and instead seek players who aren't afraid of being pro's - as in PROfessional.
Again, nothing more too it. Then again, LX could convince himself that Kobe is the cause of global warning, and he'd defend it tirelessly. Because if you think telling the boss that a co-worker isn't pulling his weight near a business deal deadline is wrong, as opposed to after the deal has already fell through, may god (or lack thereof) help us all.

The only thing I agree with is that he shouldn't have told the story. At least that Kobe hate is justified.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:07 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Whatever.
Kobe is a dedicated athlete and he expects the same from his co-workers.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:32 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Again, nothing more too it. Then again, LX could convince himself that Kobe is the cause of global warning, and he'd defend it tirelessly. Because if you think telling the boss that a co-worker isn't pulling his weight near a business deal deadline is wrong, as opposed to after the deal has already fell through, may god (or lack thereof) help us all.

The only thing I agree with is that he shouldn't have told the story. At least that Kobe hate is justified.
He told the boss to pull the C off the floor. What was he expecting? Ronnie Turiaf was going to make everything just so? Tell the boss that one of very few specialized coworkers needs to be shown up. The deal deadline still gets missed, and all the deals coming down the pike are in jeopardy. Please do not look to Kobe for management tips.

And you say the telling of the story is an issue? Is there a big difference? The demands he placed on Phil, and the drama of being furious, serves the same purpose as telling the story afterwards. Can you not read between the lines in each case? I am Kobe and it's a crying shame that I was not allowed to win more than I did, to put up more numbers than I did, to score 40 and win while cruising through every season, and always reserving the right to take on the role of coach or GM.

I remember MJ telling the story about all the failures, all the missed shots, all the lost games that people forget, but which drove him to always be better. Kobe's story is that none of the losses, none of the failures, none of the missed shots are on him. Poor poor kobe for being denied true, undeniable, greatness. Gotta love it. He's an inspiration. That true greatness will continue to be denied, and not just by me.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:14 PM   #53 (permalink)
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He told the boss to pull the C off the floor. What was he expecting? Ronnie Turiaf was going to make everything just so? Tell the boss that one of very few specialized coworkers needs to be shown up. The deal deadline still gets missed, and all the deals coming down the pike are in jeopardy. Please do not look to Kobe for management tips.
You tell the boss that because there's other people wanting to prove themselves but aren't given the chance. Case closed. Anything about the deadline still getting missed is speculation, fantasy and nothing more, so no use stating that.

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And you say the telling of the story is an issue? Is there a big difference? The demands he placed on Phil, and the drama of being furious, serves the same purpose as telling the story afterwards. Can you not read between the lines in each case? I am Kobe and it's a crying shame that I was not allowed to win more than I did, to put up more numbers than I did, to score 40 and win while cruising through every season, and always reserving the right to take on the role of coach or GM. I remember MJ telling the story about all the failures, all the missed shots, all the lost games that people forget, but which drove him to always be better. Kobe's story is that none of the losses, none of the failures, none of the missed shots are on him. Poor poor kobe for being denied true, undeniable, greatness. Gotta love it. He's an inspiration. That true greatness will continue to be denied, and not just by me.
Again, that's what you read (what you on, Lasik??) but you already have a preconceived bias so there's no use. Saying those things on the court were because he was determined to win and Kwame had zero self confidence in himself. Telling the story afterwards is only to talk about his frustration with playing with Kwame, which I don't agree with because it adds nothing of value for either of them, while saying it in-game could have resulted in a win. There's your difference. Furthermore, sarcastic pity for Kobe just diminishes your argument as it further glorifies your Kobe-hater status. Moving on now...
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:40 PM   #54 (permalink)
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the discussion is good, but the kobe hater status that you give your opponents are low blows.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:51 PM   #55 (permalink)
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One possible, and really unlikely win, considering the opponent, does not justify interfering with how the coach manages a team for the long haul. I have no problem with Kobe pointing out the issue, if he had left it that. Instead he demanded that his coach immediately throw his teammate under a bus, and likely make life that much more difficult for his coach, unnecessarily. You can make it out to be reasonable, but it wasn't. He crossed a line, as he has typically crossed the line.

My bias is not preconceived. I swear I have the utmost respect for any other Laker legend, albeit a little begrudgingly. My bias is formed from instances like this one. But it only makes seeing him lose that much more enjoyable, so what the he'll - he's gotta be Kobe.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:45 PM   #56 (permalink)
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One possible, and really unlikely win, considering the opponent, does not justify interfering with how the coach manages a team for the long haul. I have no problem with Kobe pointing out the issue, if he had left it that. Instead he demanded that his coach immediately throw his teammate under a bus, and likely make life that much more difficult for his coach, unnecessarily. You can make it out to be reasonable, but it wasn't. He crossed a line, as he has typically crossed the line.

My bias is not preconceived. I swear I have the utmost respect for any other Laker legend, albeit a little begrudgingly. My bias is formed from instances like this one. But it only makes seeing him lose that much more enjoyable, so what the he'll - he's gotta be Kobe.
You have a very nice way with words. "Instead he demanded that his coach immediately throw his teammate under the bus" is just the extreme of saying "Instead he requested that his coach take him out of the game." And that is totally reasonable considering what Kwame said to him at the NBA level against the fricking Pistons because you want guys on the floor that are willing to compete with one of the best teams in the NBA.

At least I can take from this discussion that you acknowledge Kobe as a Laker legend. For a second I was getting worried.

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the discussion is good, but the kobe hater status that you give your opponents are low blows.
Sorry if you took it that way, maybe I should have worded it differently, but I don't think either him or SJ are haters. The hater comment I made before this one was sarcastic. I was just stating that saying those things about Kobe just help people justify the status that he's garnered at RF because those comments glorify the title, which won't help his arguments against anything Kobe related.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:05 PM   #57 (permalink)
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You have a very nice way with words. "Instead he demanded that his coach immediately throw his teammate under the bus" is just the extreme of saying "Instead he requested that his coach take him out of the game." And that is totally reasonable considering what Kwame said to him at the NBA level against the fricking Pistons because you want guys on the floor that are willing to compete with one of the best teams in the NBA.
You are correct that I interpret Kobe's words differently than you. Somehow I just can't decipher "I told Phil to take him out of the game" as a way of saying that he made a request of his coach. And him being furious afterwards was all about how his coach reacted. Who was Phil supposed to put in there? And how was he supposed to manage games from that point on, with one big that needed his minutes limited, and another that was no better at free throws.

Kobe had already thrown Bynum under the bus while being furious that Bynum wasn't traded for Kidd. Team chemistry means nothing to the guy. And Phil looked incredibly happy to be done with it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:19 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Hating?

Grow up man. there is a way to conduct yourself as a professional. You don't need to drag people through the mud long after the fact to help aid you in any story about the past. Honestly, this isn't very complicated.

I may have the advantage of a few years on ya, and honestly, I think in this situation it might make a difference. Kobe is in a business, and in a business there are ethics. You can call a guy out on the spot, or in the room/ boardroom, but after that, it stays silent, OR if it has to be discussed, it's discussed with respect.


I could tell the same story Kobe did, without mentioning one name, and get the same result, same chuckles, same everything, WITHOUT making it a point to tear down the guys in questions. People likely already know who he's talking about, and if they don't it isn't important that they do.

So, 007, I respect what you're thnking, or saying, but I assure you, this doesn't come from a place of hate. Ok? It's just sound business ethics, and character. The best don't need to stomp the worst. They only shine brighter when they don't.
Yes, but we are talking about Kwame Brown here. It's alright to talk about Kwame behind his back.



and a second time


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Old 10-11-2011, 08:22 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Yes, but we are talking about Kwame Brown here. It's alright to talk about Kwame behind his back.
This one is the best. Edit: Aww, you beat me to it.

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Old 10-12-2011, 12:47 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Thats the media talking, they can say what they please guys.... I assume you're just joking around at this point right?

Er.... right??

haha

Listen, I don't much care about Kobe yipping on the bench, or telling Phil to take the guy out. If a guy told me not to pass it to him i'd fucking lose it. What I'm saying is that off the court, I'm not gonna elaborate upon it to the media. it's unprofessional, and it makes you look bad. As you can see, there are plenty of other people that will recognize, and ostracize the guys in question for you, you can ALWAYS take the high road in sports and your team, your image, and your sport will always be better for it.

What can i say, I like leaders, and character. I don't like insecure, ego maniacs, who will tear down anyone they can at all times to make themselves look good out of fear that their present company might not have received the memo about how awesome they are. Its Sad.
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