Knicks murmurs about Bargnani as a SF
Old 10-02-2013, 04:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Knicks Knicks murmurs about Bargnani as a SF

Good luck, if they try it. Doubt if they do. Could be laughs in MSG

To Clear Up a Glut of Power Forwards in Camp, the Knicks May Have to Repurpose Andrea Bargnani - WSJ.com

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GREENBURGH, N.Y.—Of the 20 players participating here in the Knicks' preseason training camp here, 10 are power forwards.

Five of them are locks to make the opening-day roster, while two others are decent bets. This would seemingly leave the team with an imbalance of power up front. Strange as it sounds, though, the abundance of talent at power forward could be problematic, mostly because that's the one place it would be in the Knicks' best interest to have a single player—Carmelo Anthony, the NBA's reigning scoring champion—getting the minutes.

Here's where the Knicks' newest big man, Andrea Bargnani, comes in: Sliding the 7-footer over to small forward on defense could alleviate the problem and get Anthony more of the minutes he needs.

The suggestion that Bargnani—who is skilled offensively, but was widely seen as one of the NBA's weakest stoppers during his seven years with Toronto—could effectively defend the perimeter might draw blank stares from basketball analysts who have seen the Italian play that side of the ball. Still, there are indications that moving him to small forward on defense could aid the Knicks in several ways.

Beyond unclogging the team's logjam at power forward, sliding Bargnani to the wing would better utilize his best defensive skill: defending jump shots, which he's done at an elite level over the past two seasons, according to advanced metrics.

Not surprisingly, though, statistics weren't enough to sway Sam Mitchell, who coached Bargnani for two-plus years in Toronto. Mitchell, now a SiriusXM basketball analyst, suggested that Bargnani possessed the athleticism to play small forward defensively, but not the fire.

"[Playing small forward on defense] takes a commitment to running, and he's not gonna do that," Mitchell said, adding that he briefly, and unsuccessfully, played Bargnani there during a 2008 playoff series against Orlando.

Mitchell suggested Bargnani should remain in the post, both because he feels the 27-year-old could thrive in the right system, and because teams would be less likely to exploit him near the basket.

There's data to support Mitchell's point. Despite Bargnani's turnstile reputation on defense, a February SportVU study by Kirk Goldsberry showed that opposing shooters made just 35.2% of their shots when Bargnani was within five feet of their shot—the second-best defensive mark in the NBA among the league's 94 post players over the past two years.

But there's a catch: The study highlighted that Bargnani was only within opposing shot attempts 21.9% of the time, which ranked 90th out of 94 post players.

Translation: Bargnani is good at forcing misfires when he can get near the shooter, but he's normally not in good enough defensive position to make a stop.

That helps explain why Toronto's defensive on-court/off-court numbers, which measure how a team thrives or suffers when a specific player goes to the bench, improved for seven straight seasons whenever Bargnani took a breather.
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Bargnani said it was too soon to think about where he fits best, and that he hadn't yet talked with coaches about how to refine his defense. "We're just starting training camp," he said. "The roles and the X's and O's will come later."

Time will tell if Bargnani has more to give on that end. But there's plenty to suggest how to use him effectively.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The big difference between when he played SF in Toronto and the proposed situation in NY is that in Toronto he was playing SF because he was on the court with two legit post players.

In NYK, with Melo/Chandler on the court or Melo/Amare - Bargnani is without a doubt the Power forward on the court. On occasion their might be a PF lighting Bargs up and a somewhat incompetent SF on the court which might force Bargs/Melo to switch up defensively - but to consider him a SF when he's on the court with Melo would just be an exercise in over-complicating position definitions.

Otherwise - the only time I think you could really consider Bargnani a SF on that squad is if he's on the court with Chandler/Amare.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bargs gaurding LeBron or are you gonna hide him?
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Just put Melo back at SF.
God the Knicks try so hard to be horrible, they should just be used to it coming naturally.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I would love Bargs and Rudy to go at it in the ACC...make this happen
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh man i remember when we tried this here and coaches and management were talking about it like it was some secret weapon like he was going to pose a ton of matchup nightmares. so glad he isn't our problem anymore.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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If they really do attempt to play barg his struggles continue. I guess the real lesson is if you draft a player make sure he'll get minutes at his position. We had chris Bosh and we go out and take pf first overall
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rapsmannn View Post
If they really do attempt to play barg his struggles continue. I guess the real lesson is if you draft a player make sure he'll get minutes at his position. We had chris Bosh and we go out and take pf first overall
I think you're missing that a big part of him playing another position is due to him being so bad defending his position and trying in vain to try to hide his weaknesses.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think you're missing that a big part of him playing another position is due to him being so bad defending his position and trying in vain to try to hide his weaknesses.
Too many to count - horrid rebounding (especially on the offensive end), absolutely atrocious team d (possibly worse than the rebounding) mediocre at best man2man d, having lower FG%s than a SG, being a shooter who can't shoot.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Oh man i remember when we tried this here and coaches and management were talking about it like it was some secret weapon like he was going to pose a ton of matchup nightmares. so glad he isn't our problem anymore.
I recall Sam lacking his usual conviction when talking about Bargnani playing SF alongside Bosh and O'Neal.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I recall Sam lacking his usual conviction when talking about Bargnani playing SF alongside Bosh and O'Neal.
It was posited originally by Bryan. Of course he always had the conviction working. And I imagine he reminded Sam who the boss was.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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They can rock it. I told you guys to put Bargs at the 3. But ya'll kicked me to the curb, said get outta here you weirdo Oregonian.

Fine, be that way, watch Bargnani help the Knicks get to the Finals, as reserve hybrid 3-4 Bargnani.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Bargs gaurding LeBron or are you gonna hide him?
Well, LeBron mostly plays at 4, so I guess Melo. And Bargs guards Battier, who's camping in the corner much of the time anyway.

But yeah, in the end, I imagine they'd figure this out game to game and situation to situation. The distinction between 3 and 4 in today's game is situational anyway, who defends who, and they can figure that out. They'll probably sit him in some matchups.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, LeBron mostly plays at 4, so I guess Melo. And Bargs guards Battier, who's camping in the corner much of the time anyway.

But yeah, in the end, I imagine they'd figure this out game to game and situation to situation. The distinction between 3 and 4 in today's game is situational anyway, who defends who, and they can figure that out. They'll probably sit him in some matchups.
Well put. tumbs up
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toby View Post
They can rock it. I told you guys to put Bargs at the 3. But ya'll kicked me to the curb, said get outta here you weirdo Oregonian.

Fine, be that way, watch Bargnani help the Knicks get to the Finals, as reserve hybrid 3-4 Bargnani.
Thing of playing on a terribly bad team like the Raptors is everyone's weaknesses are exposed/exaggerated more than what is typical. I'm still a Bargs fan...as a hybrid 3-4 and used for match-ups he'll do very well there IMO. Also helps to have Chandler behind him, or the crazy WP on the other side - type of players that the Raps never had.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Bargs would be terrible at SF (imo) he is not fast enough to guard most of the SF's in the league. I think spot up shooter like Novak would kill him, not even talking about SF who can attack the rim.
Also i don't think Bargs would dominate SF's offensively, because he settles for way to many jump shots..
Once I said if needed Ilyasova could play SF here and there and people called me idiot, so Bargs at SF is a joke!
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