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Northern Neighbour 06-21-2011 01:04 PM

Josh Smith Available?
 
Quote:

The Atlanta Hawks have started to gauge trade interest on forward Josh Smith(notes), and Smith isn’t averse to ending his seven-year stay with his hometown team, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

Smith hasn’t requested a trade, but has privately told league friends that the Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic are his preferred destinations should the Hawks decide to move him.

“The relationship has run its course,” said a league source with knowledge of the dynamic.

There’s been growing acrimony between Smith and the organization, sources said, largely because of the feeling that Smith has been too convenient of a scapegoat. Smith had one of his most complete seasons for the Hawks, averaging 16.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists.

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Josh Smith has spent all seven of his NBA seasons playing for the Hawks.

Payroll is an issue for the Hawks, too, and Smith’s contract – which has two years and $25.6 million remaining – is an attractive target for management to unload, if, for no other reason, than the five years, $110 million left on Joe Johnson’s(notes) deal is far more difficult to move.

Hawks assess trade interest in Smith - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Northern Neighbour 06-21-2011 01:07 PM

While the Hawks are looking for expiring contracts, I wonder if they would entertain a Smith-for-Bargnani deal. Bargnani and Horford would be a great 1-2 punch upfront with Johnson at SG. The Hawks would be a better balanced offensive team, although they would take a hit defensively with the loss of Smith.

Smith would be a great fit at SF with the Raptors, giving the team rebounding, shot blocking, and defense. DeRozan and Smith would be a pretty nice combination at the wing positions.

jeffb 06-21-2011 01:11 PM

They can do a lot better then Bargnani. I think he ends up in NJ or Orlando.

Northern Neighbour 06-21-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 550665)
They can do a lot better then Bargnani. I think he ends up in NJ or Orlando.

Orlando doesn't have an asset like Bargnani to trade. They really don't have much to deal.

New Jersey has some draft picks to trade, but not as many as they once did after acquiring Williams at the deadline. The only other player with value is Lopez, but he's not going anywhere.

As such, I cannot see Orlando or NJ acquiring Smith as they don't have the pieces to land Smith. I doubt Toronto is able to acquire him, but they do have a good piece in Bargnani to deal. Whether the Hawks would be interested in him and whether BC is interested in Smith are the unknowns.

Other teams that could be interested are Golden State (Ellis, Williams, Biedrins) and the LA Clippers (Kaman, Bledsoe, Mo Williams), both of whom have pieces that could interest the Hawks.

Bill Haverchuck 06-21-2011 01:29 PM

Edit - already said

Alex 06-21-2011 02:50 PM

I doubt they're interested in a player like Bargnani.

Northern Neighbour 06-21-2011 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 550716)
I doubt they're interested in a player like Bargnani.

Care to explain your opinion? I'm not trying to pick a fight or even disagreeing with you; I just want to hear your views on why you think Atlanta wouldn't be interested in Bargnani.

myklue 06-21-2011 03:48 PM

i love j smiths game. i love how hes very athletic, big, rebound and block shots. in NBA 2k11, i always pick him when doing Fantasy Drafts

jeffb 06-21-2011 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour (Post 550731)
Care to explain your opinion? I'm not trying to pick a fight or even disagreeing with you; I just want to hear your views on why you think Atlanta wouldn't be interested in Bargnani.

Because @ 10Mil/yr, he's soft, doesn't rebound, doesn't block shots, and at times checks out at bout ends. Josh Smith should get themm more then Bargnani.

Alex 06-21-2011 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 550734)
Because @ 10Mil/yr, he's soft, doesn't rebound, doesn't block shots, and at times checks out at bout ends. Josh Smith should get themm more then Bargnani.

Plus J Smoove is capable of being a defensive player of the year, getting triple double, and being a threat on both ends. Bargs is an alright trade asset, just don't think he's going to net us a player like that. Horford and Bargnani would be an ice front court though. But I'm sure they can get something a lot better than Bargs for Smoove.

Northern Neighbour 06-21-2011 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 550734)
Because @ 10Mil/yr, he's soft, doesn't rebound, doesn't block shots, and at times checks out at bout ends. Josh Smith should get themm more then Bargnani.

I didn't know your name was Alex.

Anyway, it probably would take more than just Bargnani, but people here really undervalue Bargnani. Big men who can score and shoot are quite valuable. I don't think the world of Bargnani, but he isn't some scrub that some people make him out to be.

And what other players could the Hawks acquire that are better than Bargnani? I just don't see a lot of teams offering a 25-year old, skilled big man for a comparable player for Smith. Well, maybe Philly offers Iguodala or the Clippers offer Kaman in a package, but the Raptors could compete with other teams' offer if they included Bargnani and another piece or two.

powerfulpanda 06-22-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour (Post 550751)
Anyway, it probably would take more than just Bargnani, but people here really undervalue Bargnani. Big men who can score and shoot are quite valuable. I don't think the world of Bargnani, but he isn't some scrub that some people make him out to be.

its not just here, its everywhere. he gets no respect from canadian and US media and you can't say they're out of line either. i can't speak for other NBA teams and their fans but i'm sure their views on bargnani isn't too far from ours.

carp 06-22-2011 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerfulpanda (Post 551062)
its not just here, its everywhere. he gets no respect from canadian and US media and you can't say they're out of line either. i can't speak for other NBA teams and their fans but i'm sure their views on bargnani isn't too far from ours.

Who cares about what the media says.... they're known to embellish or hype for their own motives.

You're being absolutely naive if you think Bargnani as a healthy, 7 footer that has tremendous offensive skill and has shown the ability to defend, albeit sporadically, isn't valuable on the trade market then you're not aware of the 29 other teams always looking for more size up front. It's a fact. Let me guess, you'd rather have Oden.

jeffb 06-22-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerfulpanda (Post 551062)
its not just here, its everywhere. he gets no respect from canadian and US media and you can't say they're out of line either. i can't speak for other NBA teams and their fans but i'm sure their views on bargnani isn't too far from ours.

Bargnani is tough to fit into a roster in a way imo. The thing is, he can score but should be a 3rd option on a good team, which really takes away from his scoring (less shots). And if his shots and PPG go down is he worth it since he costs you points at the other end? As a third option he'd have to effect the game in other ways which he currently doesn't do. I think most good teams would use him as a 6th man and main scorer off the bench.

carp 06-22-2011 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 551068)
Bargnani is tough to fit into a roster in a way imo. The thing is, he can score but should be a 3rd option on a good team, which really takes away from his scoring (less shots). And if his shots and PPG go down is he worth it since he costs you points at the other end? As a third option he'd have to effect the game in other ways which he currently doesn't do. I think most good teams would use him as a 6th man and main scorer off the bench.

You can hide a good offensive player that isn't great on D, but you can't argue that AB doesn't have the physical tools to defend. This team has been terrible for years defensively. Listening to Casey talk about being more physical is the only thing that gives hope to the Raptors being better defensively. Trade Bargnani and change nothing else and they are still atrocious.

jeffb 06-22-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 551071)
You can hide a good offensive player that isn't great on D, but you can't argue that AB doesn't have the physical tools to defend. This team has been terrible for years defensively. Listening to Casey talk about being more physical is the only thing that gives hope to the Raptors being better defensively. Trade Bargnani and change nothing else and they are still atrocious.

Why would you even think we'd trade Bargnani and change nothing else. Arguments like that have never made sense to me, like when people say take bargnani away and see what would happen to the scoring.....as if he'd magically disappear and nothing else would be done to add to the roster.

Don Vito 06-22-2011 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 551071)
You can hide a good offensive player that isn't great on D, but you can't argue that AB doesn't have the physical tools to defend. This team has been terrible for years defensively. Listening to Casey talk about being more physical is the only thing that gives hope to the Raptors being better defensively. Trade Bargnani and change nothing else and they are still atrocious.

Who said we are going to change nothing else? Everything will change defensively now that Triano is gone, getting rid of Bargnani should be the main focus this summer.

Don Vito 06-22-2011 12:24 PM

When Casey said the offense will be free flowing I actually think it'll be better for the team. Instead of throwing it to Bargnani to jack up shots, everyone will get touches. Don't kid yourself, guys like DeRozan, Bayless, Barbosa have all shown to be very efficient scorers.

shittytrader 06-22-2011 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 551071)
You can hide a good offensive player that isn't great on D, but you can't argue that AB doesn't have the physical tools to defend. This team has been terrible for years defensively. Listening to Casey talk about being more physical is the only thing that gives hope to the Raptors being better defensively. Trade Bargnani and change nothing else and they are still atrocious.

Word. Everyone on this site seems to suggest playground bball team setups where the first people chosen for a team are people who can drive. Get rid of bargnani and all of a sudden the offense is about driving to the net. All the defense needs to do is clog the paint. Right at this moment, barely anyone can stretch the defense, except Bargnani. How much worse will the raptors offense change if Bargnani were gone? I know the argument will be made that we can get new players who can, but it seems that any player suggested is another slasher. I'm all for slashers, only if the opposing defense is spread.

I said it before, Bosh was great in his last year here because Bargnani stretched the defense and he was able to get to the paint easily. How many times have you seen opposing centres come out to guard Bargnani in the perimeter? In Miami's case, Bosh is kind of like Bargnani in offense because he does hang out at near the perimeter at times. Doesn't hurt that they have some solid 3pt shooters as well. This opened up lanes for Wade and Lebron to get to the rim with ease.

At the moment, out of the 'core' we have:
Davis: who has no offensive game outside of 5 feet from the basket
DD: shot improving, but still relies mostly on driving. not a 3pt threat at all
Amir: similar to Davis, but better shot
Bayless: decent 3pt shot, but not reliable
JJ: not a perimeter threat

Bargnani: one of the most versatile scorers in the league, he just wasn't used properly. Yes, his defense is atrocious but hopefully a proper centre and Casey will somehow change it or at least get him more motivated.

So basically it's a team that will rely on slashing if Bargnani is gone. Add Josh Smith to the mix, it's even more so. Not say it's bad, but I'm saying that slashing is not as effective without perimeter threats. Slashing is definitely effective when you can draw opposing bigs away from the basket and Bargnani is one of the few people who can effectively do that in this league.

As much as I think davis has been great for the raptors, if Raptors have a chance to get a similar player with size that can play centre and let Bargnani go back to PF, I say go for it.

I know people like to see flashy dunks all day, but enough with the playground bball and its focus on individual play. it's time for NBA level strategies... a team game

powerfulpanda 06-22-2011 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 551066)
Who cares about what the media says.... they're known to embellish or hype for their own motives.

You're being absolutely naive if you think Bargnani as a healthy, 7 footer that has tremendous offensive skill and has shown the ability to defend, albeit sporadically, isn't valuable on the trade market then you're not aware of the 29 other teams always looking for more size up front. It's a fact. Let me guess, you'd rather have Oden.

bargnani supporters overvalue him
bargnani haters undervalue him (questionable)

its fair to say the haters are going off results and the supporters are going off the idea of bargnani


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