Heat Making Push For Stoudemire
Old 02-10-2010, 10:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The Heat have emerged as a determined pursuer of Suns forward Amare Stoudemire, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Miami is proposing a number of different packages and president Pat Riley is making anyone short of Dwyane Wade available.

"Nobody is pushing harder on this than Riley," one league source said.

The Heat have proposed scenarios involving young players like Michael Beasley and expiring contracts like Jermaine O'Neal. In addition, they are willing to trade their 2010 first-round pick.

Phoenix is believed to be in talks with as many as six teams.

Via Yahoo! Sports
So Amare and Wade staying in MIA and signing long term deals?
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Phoenix would be smart to take Beasley and O'neal's fat contract...
they'd get a stud sf/pf and have 20 million off the cap in the offseason.
for a team thats on the verge of blowing it up, this would be the best possible scenario for them... they get a youngster and money to grab a top FA in the summer... all for a guy who was probably not coming back next year.
easy.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I can only pray this happens. Then we can stop with the Bosh to Miami rumours.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by INSIDER View Post
Phoenix would be smart to take Beasley and O'neal's fat contract...
they'd get a stud sf/pf and have 20 million off the cap in the offseason.
for a team thats on the verge of blowing it up, this would be the best possible scenario for them... they get a youngster and money to grab a top FA in the summer... all for a guy who was probably not coming back next year.
easy.
Phoenix has never had a hard time attracting FAs. This would be a good deal for them.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Doesn't seem likely to me at all that Heat would give up Beasley for somebody they can sign in the offseason.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Doesn't seem likely to me at all that Heat would give up Beasley for somebody they can sign in the offseason.
Well another perspective.

2010 hits and they can use Amare in a S+T for Bosh.

No this does not end the Bosh rumours and that would make it worthwhile giving up Beasley.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Well another perspective.

2010 hits and they can use Amare in a S+T for Bosh.

No this does not end the Bosh rumours and that would make it worthwhile giving up Beasley.
Yeah but they can S&T Amare for Bosh too without his birdrights.

Unless you would want Amare at max contract back if you were BC. I sure wouldn't.

I would at least want Beasley with that
(and Amare paid a lil less.)
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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the thing that i love is how badly Wade has Miami by the balls.
they are willing to fuck that whole team up just to get a big name on the roster and make Wade happy.

it kinda reminds me of what Grunwald did to accomodate VC.

They want to add a star to play beside Wade so badly that they arent looking at the big picture.
if this is true and they are interested in this trade, my question is why?
Beasley is 20 years old - putting up 16/8 consistantly.... O'neal's contract is huge, and would allow them to grab a top tier FA in 2010.
they'd give that up for a fringe superstar who puts up 20/10???

when one player's happiness dictates an organizations future; you know you are in trouble.
Miami is in big trouble.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Doesn't seem likely to me at all that Heat would give up Beasley for somebody they can sign in the offseason.
You need to remember that a team might be stupid enough to sign Amar'e to a max deal. If Amar'e and his agent can get max money, they'll probably take it. That means that, during the offseason, Miami would be in the same position of trying to work out a sign and trade to get Amar'e his max money while still acquiring him. And, this is the kicker: during the offseason the Heat no longer have O'neal's fat salary on the books to offer up in order to make the money work. That...is probably why Miami has to do it now if they are going to do it.

This doesn't make sense to you, in part, because you're smart enough to see that Amar'e isn't worth max money. However, other GM's might be desperate for his services. INSIDER is touching on that point when he highlights how Wade has Riley and the Heat by the family jewels.

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Phoenix would be smart to take Beasley and O'neal's fat contract...
they'd get a stud sf/pf and have 20 million off the cap in the offseason.
for a team thats on the verge of blowing it up, this would be the best possible scenario for them... they get a youngster and money to grab a top FA in the summer... all for a guy who was probably not coming back next year.
easy.
If they are committed to rebuilding, acquiring Beasley would be a good way to go, in my opinion. I agree with you. But whether Phoenix can grab another top FA in the summer depends a lot on who else is included in the deal. Combined, O'neal and Beasley make approx $ 27.5 million, so Amar'e salary is not enough to make the deal work. Phoenix would have to send something else to Miami. They could go a few routes. They could send Barbossa, who was speculated to be on the block a few weeks ago; they could send Richardson, if Miami was willing to take on his contract (JRich + Amar'e = approx. $30 mill in salary, so the deal works); or Phoenix could send a couple of smaller contracts along with Amar'e. In order to be able to sign an FA in the summer, they'd need to at least ditch Barbossa, but even that wouldn't open lots of room, since the cap might drop next year. If I was phoenix, and determined to rebuild, I would try to get rid of J-Rich.

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Phoenix has never had a hard time attracting FAs. This would be a good deal for them.
Phoenix is an attractive location. I agree. If they want a new FA, it's more a question of can they ditch enough salary along with Amar'e in order to create the cap space to go after somebody of significance. In my opinion, if this trade happens, they might hold off for a year as part of bigger plan. Also, Phoenix's owner is reportedly sort of cheap. He may just want to cut costs for a year or two, lose some games to get high picks, and then draft well. But that's just my bullshit opinion.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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the thing that i love is how badly Wade has Miami by the balls.
they are willing to fuck that whole team up just to get a big name on the roster and make Wade happy.

it kinda reminds me of what Grunwald did to accomodate VC.

They want to add a star to play beside Wade so badly that they arent looking at the big picture.
if this is true and they are interested in this trade, my question is why?
Beasley is 20 years old - putting up 16/8 consistantly.... O'neal's contract is huge, and would allow them to grab a top tier FA in 2010.
they'd give that up for a fringe superstar who puts up 20/10???

when one player's happiness dictates an organizations future; you know you are in trouble.
Miami is in big trouble.
+1

I seriously don't think Amare will stay with Miami after the season. Even if he does he'll want a lot of cash. So Wade plus Amare doesn't work out after 2010. IMO keeping Beasley would be better for them cuz he'll be there for sure and who knows he might end up becoming a good player
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If there is one upper tier player who does NOT deserve max money under any circumstance...it's Amare in my opinion.

Guy has game, but a bad attitude, little D and he's one finger poke away from half blindness.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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+1

I seriously don't think Amare will stay with Miami after the season. Even if he does he'll want a lot of cash. So Wade plus Amare doesn't work out after 2010. IMO keeping Beasley would be better for them cuz he'll be there for sure and who knows he might end up becoming a good player
Gurk, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Why wouldn't Amare not stay in Miami? They'll have enough to re-sign him at the end of the season and he already stated that he would like to play in Miami.

And saying that Beasley would be better for them because who knows he might end up becoming a good player is not really good reasoning. Beasley COULD be develop into a fantastic player, but COULD is a tricky word. Wade wants to win now.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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OKaay so will they honestly have enough money to sign both Wade and Amae next season and other bench pieces as well? If so why don't they just wiat till the offseason to sign him outright without giving up anything?
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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OKaay so will they honestly have enough money to sign both Wade and Amae next season and other bench pieces as well? If so why don't they just wiat till the offseason to sign him outright without giving up anything?
Yes, as long as Miami is willing to go into the luxury tax, they would have enough money to sign Amar'e, Wade, and some bench pieces.

If Miami trades O'neal and Beasley for Amar'e, they will be getting a decent player back. Most likely it will be Barbossa, who is locked up for next season. Miami will have Chalmers and Cook under contract, and they will also hold birds rights on players like Haslem, Q-Rich, and Joel Anthony. In addition to the birds rights they still have, the Heat could use the mid-level exception (MLE) to sign another solid rotation player. With the economy hurting, and the salary cap likely to fall next year, the MLE will probably be enough to acquire a decent player next year. In fact, the Heat could use it to bring O'neal back, if Riley wanted.

So, hypothetically speaking, if this trade went down, the Heat's lineup could look like this next season:

Staters:
Chalmers
Wade
Q-Rich (or wing signed with the MLE)
Haslem
Amar'e

Bench:
Barbossa (solid 6th man)
Cook
Joel Anthony
Q-Rich (or a player signed with the MLE)

And this lineup could change depending on how they spend the MLE. If they brough back JO, he could start or make their bench even more solid. Or, the Heat might use the MLE on a solid wing and move Q-Rich to the bench. I'm not saying I like this roster; I'm just answering your question.

You asked why they wouldn't wait until the offseason to sign him outright. Well, that is risky because another GM might be stupid enough to give Amar'e max money....a team like the Knicks could get desperate for a free agent.

This is what I already said on this issue:
Quote:
You need to remember that a team might be stupid enough to sign Amar'e to a max deal. If Amar'e and his agent can get max money, they'll probably take it. That means that, during the offseason, Miami would be in the same position of trying to work out a sign and trade to get Amar'e his max money while still acquiring him. And, this is the kicker: during the offseason the Heat no longer have O'neal's fat salary on the books to offer up in order to make the money work. That...is probably why Miami has to do it now if they are going to do it.

This doesn't make sense to you, in part, because you're smart enough to see that Amar'e isn't worth max money. However, other GM's might be desperate for his services. INSIDER is touching on that point when he highlights how Wade has Riley and the Heat by the family jewels.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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if this deal goes through.. i think phx is gonna be a better team ..their gonna get a little more help in d and beastly.. as they call him over at the mia fourms will be the next star on that team . nash has the ability to make people better .. they can build around that easy
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yes, as long as Miami is willing to go into the luxury tax, they would have enough money to sign Amar'e, Wade, and some bench pieces.

If Miami trades O'neal and Beasley for Amar'e, they will be getting a decent player back. Most likely it will be Barbossa, who is locked up for next season. Miami will have Chalmers and Cook under contract, and they will also hold birds rights on players like Haslem, Q-Rich, and Joel Anthony. In addition to the birds rights they still have, the Heat could use the mid-level exception (MLE) to sign another solid rotation player. With the economy hurting, and the salary cap likely to fall next year, the MLE will probably be enough to acquire a decent player next year. In fact, the Heat could use it to bring O'neal back, if Riley wanted.

So, hypothetically speaking, if this trade went down, the Heat's lineup could look like this next season:

Staters:
Chalmers
Wade
Q-Rich (or wing signed with the MLE)
Haslem
Amar'e

Bench:
Barbossa (solid 6th man)
Cook
Joel Anthony
Q-Rich (or a player signed with the MLE)

And this lineup could change depending on how they spend the MLE. If they brough back JO, he could start or make their bench even more solid. Or, the Heat might use the MLE on a solid wing and move Q-Rich to the bench. I'm not saying I like this roster; I'm just answering your question.

You asked why they wouldn't wait until the offseason to sign him outright. Well, that is risky because another GM might be stupid enough to give Amar'e max money....a team like the Knicks could get desperate for a free agent.

This is what I already said on this issue:
Yea but a team like the Knicks could be stupid enough to give him max money even if he is on the Heat. It won't matter either way. If that does happen they'll just lose Beasley and the 1st rounder
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yea but a team like the Knicks could be stupid enough to give him max money even if he is on the Heat. It won't matter either way. If that does happen they'll just lose Beasley and the 1st rounder
You're right Gurk, the Knicks could be stupid enought to give Amar'e max money, even after the Heat trade for him. But what you need to remember is that, after they trade for Amar'e, the Heat own his birds rights and are the team that can offer him the max deal. The Knicks could only give Amar'e max money via a sign and trade with the Heat. So, by trading for Amar'e now, the Heat may cut off the Knicks ability to go after him....well any teams ability to go after him, since the Heat can offer the extra 6th year on the deal.

When it comes to 2010 free agency, the GMs are juggling a bunch of stuff in their minds in anticipation of what someone else might do. That's part of the reason some of these rumours seem whacky.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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this is a terrible deal for miami, unless they get someone like J rich also. giving up JO and beasly is dumb, both are not the problem.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yea but a team like the Knicks could be stupid enough to give him max money even if he is on the Heat. It won't matter either way. If that does happen they'll just lose Beasley and the 1st rounder
I don't think Donnie Walsh is clearing cap space just to sign Amare Stoudemire. Besides, they do have Jordan Hill who they are high on and have been reluctant to include him in any trade talks. If the Knicks are going to throw a ton of money at someone other than Lebron, Wade or Bosh, it's gonna be at someone like a 2-guard (ie Joe Johnson)
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You're right Gurk, the Knicks could be stupid enought to give Amar'e max money, even after the Heat trade for him. But what you need to remember is that, after they trade for Amar'e, the Heat own his birds rights and are the team that can offer him the max deal. The Knicks could only give Amar'e max money via a sign and trade with the Heat. So, by trading for Amar'e now, the Heat may cut off the Knicks ability to go after him....well any teams ability to go after him, since the Heat can offer the extra 6th year on the deal.

When it comes to 2010 free agency, the GMs are juggling a bunch of stuff in their minds in anticipation of what someone else might do. That's part of the reason some of these rumours seem whacky.
Yea I know about Bird Rights but what if he just doesn't want to come back. Yes I know I am throwing a lot of scenarios but I think if they are gonna deal for a one year rental player they otta know for sure that he'll want to be back before losing a potential legit player.

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I don't think Donnie Walsh is clearing cap space just to sign Amare Stoudemire. Besides, they do have Jordan Hill who they are high on and have been reluctant to include him in any trade talks. If the Knicks are going to throw a ton of money at someone other than Lebron, Wade or Bosh, it's gonna be at someone like a 2-guard (ie Joe Johnson)
I just used them as an example cuz ACGM said that.
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