Garnett Targets Bosh as X-Factor - Page 5
Old 05-01-2011, 08:25 PM   #81 (permalink)
is getting to the line..

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Regarding the "To all the doubters" ...I'm sorry but that is the greatest thread of all time!


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Old 05-01-2011, 09:17 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by forme123 View Post
proof that they dont need Bosh to play good in order to win....
not really - had he forced bad shots and not done his job defensively, they likely would have lost. He didn't suck, and they came out on top. Now if they had Haslem, that would probably be different, but there really isn't anyone behind him to make sure certain things get done.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:25 PM   #83 (permalink)
...

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Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
This is only true when you hold your own skewed perspective on things. For example, you're the kind of guy who starts a "to all the doubters thread" which suggests the Raps have good team that could win a lot of games, but then months later is screaming about the GM and how he built a shit team........
Post.... of.... the... YEAR.
It wasn't even directed to me and yet it still hurt, lol.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:37 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LX View Post
not really - had he forced bad shots and not done his job defensively, they likely would have lost. He didn't suck, and they came out on top. Now if they had Haslem, that would probably be different, but there really isn't anyone behind him to make sure certain things get done.
Bosh doesn't need to make shots to be effective in this series, he just has to keep KG honest. Present him self as a pick and pop option. If they had Haslem they would have more depth, but he doesn't spread the defense like Bosh is going to. If he wasen't there this would be a way easier series for Boston. KG would be able to be a way more effective help defender. Wade and Lebron would be finding fewer open seams.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Bosh doesn't need to make shots to be effective in this series, he just has to keep KG honest. Present him self as a pick and pop option. If they had Haslem they would have more depth, but he doesn't spread the defense like Bosh is going to. If he wasen't there this would be a way easier series for Boston. KG would be able to be a way more effective help defender. Wade and Lebron would be finding fewer open seams.
Excellent observations. Kudos.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:30 AM   #86 (permalink)
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I don't ever recall saying that "Rondo is better than Chris Paul".
I'm assuming here that Paul must be a model "Pure PG".

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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Anyone who wants to know why I consider Rondo the best "Pure PG" in the NBA should be watching the Celts/Heat game right now.
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I'm more than happy to have provided you with lulz... you've provided me with more than enough over the past months (OMG IF WE HAD KOBE INSTEAD OF Bosh WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SOOOO MUCH BETTER!!)
Here are his relevant quotes backed up with actual arguments.

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Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck
Sure, I agree that Bosh PROBABLY would have led the Raps to the playoffs without the injuries. I've said that myself. And that's because there was actually some talent on this team. So, quit arguing with a fake opponent. Even when Bosh was out, the Raps put up an offensive rating of over 113, which would be top 5 in the league.

You could slot Kobe in at the shooting guard spot and put a guy like Rasho in for Bosh and the Raps would improve quite a bit overall. The offense would not drop off, and the defense would actually improve, considering Kobe would be a major upgrade to Toronto's perimeter defense. Heck, a straight up Kobe for Bosh trade might lead to a 50 win season in the east.

......


1 - notice how in this old post I said "Bosh had several people to open things up for him on offense"? So would Kobe if he was a Raptor. So your point about Kobe getting trapped is just unnecessary since I covered that. It's part of the reason I get annoyed with this shit. If you disagree with the old point explain why...provide an explanation...don't plug your ears and keep coming back with the same auto-repeat crap. I may not agree with your explanation but it's better than watching you repeat the same shit over and over and over.

2 - As I said in the past, with Kobe, the Raps might win 50 games. Wade won 47 this year with little help. You could have guys like Rasho and Amir cover Bosh't minutes and focus on rebounding and defense. Kobe is an ALL NBA defensive team guard. He would be a huge upgrade to the Raps perimeter D. He guards guys like Rondo if necessary. That could be huge in the playoffs.

3 - Notice how even in that old post I had to repeat for like the millionth time that this isn't about one guy winning a championship. It's always about your comparisons. Bosh is not as good as Wade, Lebron and Kobe.
How does that account for lulz? The lulz was provided from that same thread when you thought Bosh deserved a max-contract.

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Old 05-02-2011, 06:59 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I'm assuming here that Paul must be a model "Pure PG".
To this point I've considered Paul more of a "scoring guard" than a "pure PG" but he definitely picked up his game in the Laker series.

Before the playoffs, pretty much everyone on the board thought that Rose was the best PG in the NBA hands down.... and they had every reason to.

Now the discussion may be a little bit different.

Not exactly sure what the crime is here..... Paul, Rose and Rondo are ALL excellent PGs.

Based on what I've seen over the past few years I preferred Rondo... and he certainly produced enough evidence to support my argument.



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How does that account for lulz? The lulz was provided from that same thread when you thought Bosh deserved a max-contract.
1) It accounts for lulz because there's clear evidence of what Kobe was capable of when surrounded by shit teammates (1st round exit, missed playoffs). Putting him on ANY random team does NOT = 50 wins. And our team was/is one of the shittiest out there sans Bosh. So unless we're going to argue again about how those Laker teams were actually WORSE than the Raps isn't that convenient?) I don't see how the Kobe argument makes any sense at all.

2) In regards to Bosh deserving a max contract.... he did.... based on his play and the stats that he put up. He was one of the best young bigs in the entire league and MANY teams were willing to put up max cash to grab him. 24 & 11 (and near 20 & 10 for 4 straight years, plus 5 all-star games and a gold medal) would justify that. You may disagree... but then you'd have a VERY short list of max players wouldn't you? Perhaps only 3-5 or so.

That isn't reality.

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Old 05-02-2011, 07:43 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Nevermind, what you said makes perfect sense.

:S

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Old 05-02-2011, 11:16 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
Anyone could fill in Bosh's role better. Guys like Blake Griffin, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Carlos Boozer, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Al Horford, Pau Gasol, etc etc could do what Bosh is doing even better. Bosh is overrated.
I think your totally wrong. I believe Bosh is of the same calibre as these players.
Dont let the hate skew your judgement.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:12 PM   #90 (permalink)
Unacceptable?! Did you see the pool? They flipped the bitch!

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I think your totally wrong. I believe Bosh is of the same calibre as these players.
Dont let the hate skew your judgement.
I think YOU are totally wrong haha...

Bosh is a good player but I think they would be better off with a guy who can occupy the paint and has some post moves than him.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:15 PM   #91 (permalink)
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How many of those guys can keep up with the fast pace of the heat team.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:13 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I think YOU are totally wrong haha...

Bosh is a good player but I think they would be better off with a guy who can occupy the paint and has some post moves than him.
Sometimes I wonder about that....

Neither Wade nor 'bron are great outside shooters... and they DO charge to the rim a lot. I think that for the way that their offense works now they need a big who can hit the outside shot and spread the defense.... basically keep the lanes open.

JMO.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:08 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Sometimes I wonder about that....

Neither Wade nor 'bron are great outside shooters... and they DO charge to the rim a lot. I think that for the way that their offense works now they need a big who can hit the outside shot and spread the defense.... basically keep the lanes open.

JMO.
Yeah it definitely goes both way because you do want to keep the paint clear for those guys to drive.

The thing is that with the current team make-up, they don't even have the option to kick it to the post really. So ALL their offense is perimeter oriented and I don't think that can work even with the talent they have.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:24 PM   #94 (permalink)
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They START on the perimeter... but most times they end up at the rim. It's not as though they're just firing away from outside.

I get your point though.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:03 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Yeah it definitely goes both way because you do want to keep the paint clear for those guys to drive.

The thing is that with the current team make-up, they don't even have the option to kick it to the post really. So ALL their offense is perimeter oriented and I don't think that can work even with the talent they have.
The heat just drive a kick, whether its to jame jones and bibby on the perimeter or Bosh and ilgy on the base line. They aren't so much of a perimeter offense as they are a counter punching offense. They draw you into reacting with double and triple teams and take what ever is given to them.
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:24 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Okay, TORap, half the time you don't even understand my points or remember what you say, but I'll respond anyway. This can serve as future reference if this crap ever starts again.

Re:

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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I don't ever recall saying that "Rondo is better than Chris Paul".

I DO recall saying that "I prefer Rondo to Chris Paul".
Sure you did:
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Rondo > CP3. Yeah, I said it.
:cookie:

More to come.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:01 AM   #97 (permalink)
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It was made because I was sick and tired of everyone pissing and moaning about how our team was playing IN THE PRE-SEASON. The comments that people were making, based on meaningless games were assinine. Let the team play REAL games in the regular season and THEN pass some judgement.

Sort of a strawman. In the OP you said they'd win 48-50 games. The point is that you made an optimisitic prediction about that team, which suggests you thought favourably about how it was constructed and its chances at some success, yet you then later shit on the GM for construcing that team. That's the point. It's not "extremely" consistent, to use your own words.


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Thought that was easy enough to understand.... maybe not.
See the point I just made above. I've heard your explanation. In fact, I said that you would say it's not about BC, because I knew you'd miss my point. You said they'd win 48-50 games and then you shit on the GM for putting the team together. You dared people to bump the thread, which I would say is strong proof of your confidence in the team that had been constructed....yet you later shit on the GM for putting it together.

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Yes, I certainly thought that the Cavs would make the playoffs without James... until Mo Williams and Jamison missed about a combined 50-60 games and Varejao missed 50-60 BY HIMSELF. The Cavs knew how to play defense with or without Lebron so it wasn't unreasonable (IMO) that they'd still squeak into a weak EC much like the Pacers ended up doing. The Bucks surprised me too. Thought that they were better than they were.
Guess what? You missed the point AGAIN. This is about your reaction to the Cleveland GM. This is NOT about solely the prediction. Everyone gets some predictions wrong.

This is what my point is...AGAIN: you thought Cleveland had a good enough team to make the playoffs even without Lebron James, yet you also shit on the Cleveland GM for not doing a good job and said you didn't blame Lebron for leaving. Over the past 5 years, the Cavs GM bent over backwards to bring in players, including the types you claim to like. I can elaborate.

The funny thing is, when you try to make more points about how the Cavs could have made the playoffs, you're just making your other posts in which you shit on the Cavs GM look more silly. I thought you were supposed to be consistent? Your words.

It was only a week ago that you said the Cavs' GM belonged in the group of GMs who have nobody to blame but themselves for their stars leaving. You can't tell me you forgot already.

The Cavs did a lot for Lebron, all things considered. And I can elaborate.

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Is this the part where you tell that you're infallible and every prediction/observation that you make about the game is bang on?
Nope. Strawman. And you probably made this remark because you didn't even get my intial point. Again, it's not about the prediction in isolation; it's about the prediction as it relates to your comments about Cavs GM. And that contradiction was brought up because you complain about other's hypocrisy and excuses.

By the way, only a week ago, I posted "We fail" in response to a series of comments that included my own. You can't get anything right. I poked fun at myself. If I thought I was infallible, why would I laugh at myself and my shitty prediction?


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As for "credibility"... unless there's an NBA coach, GM or player on these boards everyone has about the same amount of that lol...
Holy strawman Batman! I was not talking about credibility in terms of solely NBA anaylsis. I was talking about complaints about condescension and hypocrisy. Sometimes I think I'm typing in Spanish or something, but I know that can't be the case, since others don't always strawman the fuck out of my posts.

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I'm more than happy to have provided you with lulz... you've provided me with more than enough over the past months (OMG IF WE HAD KOBE INSTEAD OF Bosh WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SOOOO MUCH BETTER!!).
This has already been addressed. SomeDPlease placed my comments in context. And I noticed that in my old posts I had to ask you to stop arguing against a fake opponent. Even here, you've constructed claims I didn't make or distorted them. You respond to what is easier for you to justify, rather than my specific point.

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Old 05-03-2011, 05:15 AM   #98 (permalink)
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1) It accounts for lulz because there's clear evidence of what Kobe was capable of when surrounded by shit teammates (1st round exit, missed playoffs). Putting him on ANY random team does NOT = 50 wins. And our team was/is one of the shittiest out there sans Bosh. So unless we're going to argue again about how those Laker teams were actually WORSE than the Raps isn't that convenient?) I don't see how the Kobe argument makes any sense at all.
You're misrepresenting my claim. The stuff SomeDPlease posted is more detailed. For starters, there is a difference between the East and the West. I said a trade for Kobe might 50 wins in the EAST. There is also many other points that qualify my statement.

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Old 05-03-2011, 06:04 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Just stop, I knew what I was getting into when he said he's thought of Paul as more of a "scoring-guard" and Rondo as a "pure PG", just so his point can stand. Sure Paul was averaging 16 points a game to Rondo's 11, but the difference in assists/game between the two was 1 AST. Therefore, saying Paul is a scoring-guard doesn't diminish the fact that he's as pure a PG as they come in the NBA.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:12 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Eh.... if Paul hadn't destroyed the Lakers for a couple of games in the 1st round I doubt that there would have been as much of an outcry as to his worth compared to Rondo. He was impressive in a couple of games.... and then looked fairly average in others. *shrug* same thing happened to Rondo after the all-star break.

As for the CLE thing..... how many wins did it take for the Pacers to make it into the East? And would a playoff spot have someone legitimized CLE's roster? Shit, WE almost made the playoffs and we all know that our team wasn't built to anywhere in the playoffs. Not enough star power, not enough depth. Same as CLE. You can squeak into the playoffs with teams like that but they're not the kind of teams that are going to inspire stars to stick around. They have to carry too much of the load.

As for Kobe.... yes, you said that he could have probably won 50 games in the East. I think it's a bit naive to think that, considering the fact that he'd have to carry the offense AND the defense for 40 min/gm (near impossible for any ball-dominant guard). He would've burned out in short order. Regardless.... what use would an extra 5-10 wins have been? Maybe an extra win or two in the first round? A 4-1 or 4-2 series loss instead of a sweep? I didn't see the point of even entertaining the notion of another superstar playing in Bosh's place because the REST of the team was so flawed. You saw what happened to D12 in ORL this year. Didn't matter how good he was..... because the rest of his team sucked. THAT was my point in that argument.
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