Frank Vogel Needs to be Fired After Game 1 - Page 2
Old 05-23-2013, 10:21 AM   #21 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,700
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yugoboss View Post
Who's to say Hibbert would've had any impact on the play?
Because there was 2 seconds left and Hibbert would be planted right infront of the rim. Theres no way Lebron goes in uncontested with Hibbert in the game, in the least he'd have to take a really difficult layup.

And to those saying Lebron would have drove and kicked, that's sort of impossible to do with 2 seconds left. Once you take one dribble and pass time would have run out.
Ball Don't Lie is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 10:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,084
Representing:
Default

2 seconds is enough time to dribble pass shoot.

George didn't just overplay - he reacted to Ray Allen running across which put him out of position. He admitted as much in the post game.

I don't see how it's Lebron's impulse to pass when his man is on his back...that's a bit ridiculous. I think he tends to be impulsive towards making the right play - which he did.

Yugoboss - He essentially did say what you suggest but then he was pointedly asked whether he would have Hibbert in the game in the same situation and responded truthfully.

Last edited by bjjs; 05-23-2013 at 10:30 AM.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 10:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
sick of Primo pasta and sauce

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 36
Representing:
Default

Bjjs - thanks for clarifying. I just hate the "what if" questions the media throws out there about the "next time". There may or may not be a next time to test a similar situation and it just leads to over analyzing the sequence. If Lebron misses or the play breaks and there's a kick out with a missed jumper, then Vogel made the right call. Long story short let's see Game 2.
Yugoboss is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,084
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yugoboss View Post
If Lebron misses or the play breaks and there's a kick out with a missed jumper, then Vogel made the right call.
And Vogel actually said something similar to this in the post game as well; saying that if Hibbert stayed in the game and Bosh hit a jumper then he would be getting asked about that.

Both coaches said the play wasn't necessarily for Lebron and that if that pass to LBJ was guarded Bosh was going to be the next option on movement. Vogel said he had Hibbert out for mobility/switching purposes prior to the ball being caught which makes sense with 2 seconds on the clock.

If George doesn't get out of position it's a non-issue because LBJ is shooting a jumper.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,105
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
Because there was 2 seconds left and Hibbert would be planted right infront of the rim. Theres no way Lebron goes in uncontested with Hibbert in the game, in the least he'd have to take a really difficult layup.

And to those saying Lebron would have drove and kicked, that's sort of impossible to do with 2 seconds left. Once you take one dribble and pass time would have run out.
Why are you so sure that Lebron would have the ball with Hibbert on the floor in the first place?
Maybe they would just pass it to Bosh for uncontested jumpshot?
LOG is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:37 AM   #26 (permalink)
sick of Primo pasta and sauce

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 36
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
And Vogel actually said something similar to this in the post game as well; saying that if Hibbert stayed in the game and Bosh hit a jumper then he would be getting asked about that.

Both coaches said the play wasn't necessarily for Lebron and that if that pass to LBJ was guarded Bosh was going to be the next option on movement. Vogel said he had Hibbert out for mobility/switching purposes prior to the ball being caught which makes sense with 2 seconds on the clock.

If George doesn't get out of position it's a non-issue because LBJ is shooting a jumper.
I agree, so many different angles on that play. Maybe the onus should be on George (I'm sure nobody in the building expected such a huge mistake) because without his slip/overplay on the pass then there's no need for Hibbert. But then I'm being a hypocrite lol.
Yugoboss is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:39 AM   #27 (permalink)
sick of Primo pasta and sauce

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 36
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOG View Post
Why are you so sure that Lebron would have the ball with Hibbert on the floor in the first place?
Maybe they would just pass it to Bosh for uncontested jumpshot?
You got it, that's kind of the spirit of this thread and why it's unnecessary to pick apart one play. Basketball happened. Game 2.
Yugoboss is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:44 AM   #28 (permalink)
Keep it simple

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 8,204
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
2 seconds is enough time to dribble pass shoot.

George didn't just overplay - he reacted to Ray Allen running across which put him out of position. He admitted as much in the post game.

I don't see how it's Lebron's impulse to pass when his man is on his back...that's a bit ridiculous. I think he tends to be impulsive towards making the right play - which he did.

Yugoboss - He essentially did say what you suggest but then he was pointedly asked whether he would have Hibbert in the game in the same situation and responded truthfully.
for lebron james on a indiana defence, yes
Dario is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:54 AM   #29 (permalink)
On T-Ross Flight 31

Senior Member
 
Ataf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Catharines
Posts: 1,714
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataf
Default

Lol so the argument is 'easy layup for Lebron' or a long 2 by Bosh. Anyone wanna guess which is the higher % shot? Hibbert should have been in, especially after you saw how Lebron attacked when Hibbert got off, he's not stupid, he noticed and attacked asap.
Ataf is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,105
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataf View Post
Lol so the argument is 'easy layup for Lebron' or a long 2 by Bosh. Anyone wanna guess which is the higher % shot? Hibbert should have been in, especially after you saw how Lebron attacked when Hibbert got off, he's not stupid, he noticed and attacked asap.
There was no way of knowing that George will overplay Lebron, and he will have open lane to the basket.
LOG is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,700
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yugoboss View Post
You got it, that's kind of the spirit of this thread and why it's unnecessary to pick apart one play. Basketball happened. Game 2.
It's not one play, it's two. You dont take your defensive anchor out of the game on the 2 most crucial possessions of the game. You would think he'd learn after the first possession that leaving Hibbert out, giving anyone an uncontested layup if they got into the paint would be a bad idea. And yet he didnt learn from his first mistake and did it again.

And if Bosh gets a catch and shoot long 2 at the buzzer instead of what happened, which shot is a lower percentage one? A Bosh long 2 with someone running at him, or a Lebron uncontested layup?

And I disagree you can dribble, pass, and take a good spot up shot in 2 seconds. Is it possible to get it off? I guess. But it's next to impossible to gather and get off a good shot due to the time restrictions. If Lebron drove and kicked to a shooter, the shooter would have to release the ball from where he caught it, having no time to get into any kind of good shooting motion/form with 2 seconds left IMO.

But again, the thing that pissed me off the most was Vogel not learning from the possession before. Lebron is one of the smartest players in the NBA. If he knows Hibbert isn't in the paint, he's going to do everything he can to get there because he knows it's his best % shot. If Hibbert was in there, who's to say Lebron doesn't take a fadeaway off of the catch? Knowing that if he goes to the rim, he's going to be met by Hibbert and have to make an extremely diffiult off balance layup attempt.
Ball Don't Lie is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:55 PM   #32 (permalink)
On T-Ross Flight 31

Senior Member
 
Ataf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Catharines
Posts: 1,714
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOG View Post
There was no way of knowing that George will overplay Lebron, and he will have open lane to the basket.
There was a way of knowing Lebron would attack the basket since he's done that before. Expecting one on one again to work that time around was dumb. The first time it happened was dumb itself, it's called over-coaching. I called it the first time he did it in the game that Lebron was gunna attack and get it in, then he did. Then he took Hibbirt out again at this point I was shouting at the tv cause it was painfully obvious what the Heat were gunna do.
Ataf is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:55 PM   #33 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,636
Representing:
Default

Why can't we all just agree that Vogel was the most brilliant coach that ever lived, for coming up with the preceding play where he devised the ball nearly being stolen, taking Cole out of the play and leading to a scramble with George getting fouled on a three-point shot?
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
On T-Ross Flight 31

Senior Member
 
Ataf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Catharines
Posts: 1,714
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Why can't we all just agree that Vogel was the most brilliant coach that ever lived, for coming up with the preceding play where he devised the ball nearly being stolen, taking Cole out of the play and leading to a scramble with George getting fouled on a three-point shot?
+1 lmfao
Ataf is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #35 (permalink)
a Raps fan

Senior Member
 
creative1mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,307
Representing:
Default

Quote:
It's not one play, it's two. You dont take your defensive anchor out of the game on the 2 most crucial possessions of the game. You would think he'd learn after the first possession that leaving Hibbert out, giving anyone an uncontested layup if they got into the paint would be a bad idea. And yet he didnt learn from his first mistake and did it again.

And if Bosh gets a catch and shoot long 2 at the buzzer instead of what happened, which shot is a lower percentage one? A Bosh long 2 with someone running at him, or a Lebron uncontested layup?

And I disagree you can dribble, pass, and take a good spot up shot in 2 seconds. Is it possible to get it off? I guess. But it's next to impossible to gather and get off a good shot due to the time restrictions. If Lebron drove and kicked to a shooter, the shooter would have to release the ball from where he caught it, having no time to get into any kind of good shooting motion/form with 2 seconds left IMO.

But again, the thing that pissed me off the most was Vogel not learning from the possession before. Lebron is one of the smartest players in the NBA. If he knows Hibbert isn't in the paint, he's going to do everything he can to get there because he knows it's his best % shot. If Hibbert was in there, who's to say Lebron doesn't take a fadeaway off of the catch? Knowing that if he goes to the rim, he's going to be met by Hibbert and have to make an extremely diffiult off balance layup attempt.
Exactly...

a few things that screwed Indiana up.. was when Stevenson took that ill advised 3 point shot when there was still 15 seconds on shot clock and up 3, and when Frank Vogel took out Hibbert two straight possessions.. now that was so stupid

with two seconds left, you could live with a team taking a jump shot to win the game.. but to lose a game with a layup, how often does that happen.. that was terrible coaching

Last edited by creative1mm; 05-23-2013 at 02:45 PM.
creative1mm is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 03:01 PM   #36 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,084
Representing:
Default

What about when the game was tied with 30 seconds left and Wade drove to the net and finished over Hibbert? He didn't make much of a difference guarding the net on that key possession. A quicker defender perhaps could have stopped Wade further out.

Maybe if Vogel took him out on the play Indiana would have won and their wouldn't have been an overtime.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #37 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,700
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
What about when the game was tied with 30 seconds left and Wade drove to the net and finished over Hibbert? He didn't make much of a difference guarding the net on that key possession. A quicker defender perhaps could have stopped Wade further out.

Maybe if Vogel took him out on the play Indiana would have won and their wouldn't have been an overtime.
And the possession before that when Hibbert sent Wades shot to halfcourt? The point is that they have a much better chance at a stop with Roy in the game than going small and leaving the middle open.

If Vogel isn't comfortable trusting his 7'2 defensive anchor who's quite possibly been the best interior defender the entire year to guard Bosh and the middle on key possessions, then why even give him big minutes and start him at all? Maybe he should start Hansbrough and get blown out by 30.
Ball Don't Lie is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
stank

member
 
Someguy again's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,380
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
hahahahahah
Someguy again is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24