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-   -   Flop thread (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f6/flop-thread-23766.html)

bjjs 10-03-2012 10:15 PM

Flop thread
 
NBA announces new anti-flopping rule | NBA.com

I'm suspicious of the new rules. Where's the line between minor and major? Where's the line between a illegitimate & legitimate basketball play?

Why not empower the experts (the officials) to make the call during the game?

Toby 10-04-2012 12:37 AM

Derek Fisher would need a running tab from the NBA, if they had ever penalized him for flopping.

Psi 10-04-2012 12:11 PM

NBA's fines:
Violation 1: Warning
Violation 2: $5,000 fine
Violation 3: $10,000 fine
Violation 4: $15,000 fine
Violation 5: $30,000 fine

How mine would be:
Violation 1: Warning + $15,000 fine
Violation 2: 1 game suspension without pay.
Violation 3: 3 game suspension without pay.
Violation 4: 5 game suspension without pay.
Violation 5: 10 game suspension without pay.

Flop away boys!

Superjudge 10-04-2012 12:15 PM

Thing is, people will call anything and everything a "flop". There are a lot of players that get great position but will welcome contact with backward motion and a slide to make sure they aren't getting the entire bulk of the contact. It is appreciated by both players. I was taught how to do it, and to be honest, if they start calling THAT a flop, then the NBA is a waste of time as nobody will want to play defence, and it will give the soft as lazy asses an excuse not to play hard defence. If players will be expected to take the entire blow and fall as a result, you will either see zero charges being drawn, which are a direct result of great footwork and effort, or, if they do draw them, a lot more injuries.

I don't like it. I am very wary.

carp 10-04-2012 12:19 PM

I'd rather see them actually start to call flops when Lebron drives rather than calling less flops when others do. It's not just for Lebron, but stars in other cities in general.

Superjudge 10-04-2012 12:21 PM

Lebron is supposedly a principle offender going the other way. These guys just dont want to get hit. It's that simple. It hurts man.

SomeDPlease 10-04-2012 07:30 PM

Some responses from players and coaches:

Players and coaches on flops - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

jeffb 10-04-2012 07:42 PM

we have two of these threads? :confused2:

LX 10-04-2012 08:02 PM

I'm wondering if the idea behind this thread was to provide a running commentary on flopping calls throughout the year? If so it's different from your news item jeff.

edki 10-05-2012 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 685235)
Thing is, people will call anything and everything a "flop". There are a lot of players that get great position but will welcome contact with backward motion and a slide to make sure they aren't getting the entire bulk of the contact. It is appreciated by both players. I was taught how to do it, and to be honest, if they start calling THAT a flop, then the NBA is a waste of time as nobody will want to play defence, and it will give the soft as lazy asses an excuse not to play hard defence. If players will be expected to take the entire blow and fall as a result, you will either see zero charges being drawn, which are a direct result of great footwork and effort, or, if they do draw them, a lot more injuries.

I don't like it. I am very wary.

I disagree with some of your points:
Both defender and post player should be ready for full contact. Refs should use "no call" strategy more often in these situations. If contact was excessive or post player used his elbow it should be called as offensive foul. Defenders who take full but legitimate hit should be rewarded by their coaches but not referees. Making post game more physical will bring most superstars back to earth and make game more interesting.
I'm ok with players moving their feet and getting in front of offence but it should be 100% foul against them if contact was made when offensive player had his feet in the air or contact was made while defender was sliding sideways.
These changes will impose better team defence, more passing and make game more fluid.

DVS 10-05-2012 02:57 AM

These fines are just strange. So a Technical foul results in a $1000 fine and s flop results in a $5000. According to the NBA its 5 times worst to flop than to mouth off to a ref.

How nice

Superjudge 10-05-2012 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edki (Post 685359)
I disagree with some of your points:
Both defender and post player should be ready for full contact. Refs should use "no call" strategy more often in these situations. If contact was excessive or post player used his elbow it should be called as offensive foul. Defenders who take full but legitimate hit should be rewarded by their coaches but not referees. Making post game more physical will bring most superstars back to earth and make game more interesting.
I'm ok with players moving their feet and getting in front of offence but it should be 100% foul against them if contact was made when offensive player had his feet in the air or contact was made while defender was sliding sideways.
These changes will impose better team defence, more passing and make game more fluid.

My friend.

noting you just posted is inaccurate, and it is not different from what I'm saying. We agree.

You just dont know it

Superjudge 10-05-2012 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS (Post 685367)
These fines are just strange. So a Technical foul results in a $1000 fine and s flop results in a $5000. According to the NBA its 5 times worst to flop than to mouth off to a ref.

How nice

Yup.

fucked int it?

Toby 10-05-2012 06:53 AM

Artest tried to kill Harden, and the league suspended him only 7 games. It's not like it was Artest's first time hurting someone. The NBA wants ratings, and cash.
I wouldn't be watching this league if I didn't love basketball.

Superjudge 10-05-2012 06:54 AM

It a contact sport Toby...simmer down lad!

DVS 10-05-2012 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 685369)
Yup.

fucked int it?

I really question the way the nba runs their league sometimes. It just gets dumb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 685374)
It a contact sport Toby...simmer down lad!

Forgot the bill laimbeer days already haven't we

halphbreedballer 10-05-2012 09:42 AM

Think about it no one is going to be aloud to flop on Dwight Howard?

thought 10-05-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS (Post 685367)
These fines are just strange. So a Technical foul results in a $1000 fine and s flop results in a $5000. According to the NBA its 5 times worst to flop than to mouth off to a ref.

How nice

well these days just looking at a ref the wrong way gets you a T, so the fine may actually be proportionate.

Kobe talked about preferring the FIBA system of cracking down on flops which involves techs and suspensions for repeat violations versus fines. Honestly I'd prefer it too, but that system assumes that the refs are willing and able to catch and call flops in the middle of a game. If NBA refs were willing and able to catch and call flops period, I don't think a flop conspiracy would have existed in the first place. The reason this system has been implemented is because flopping, in the past, has proven to be effective so guys keep doing it. Hell you don't even have to call a tech on it, just don't give the guy the foul.

Ball Don't Lie 10-05-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Why not empower the experts (the officials) to make the call during the game?
You really trust the refs to do this? They're the main reason there is flopping in the game. As Battier recently alluded to:
Quote:

"The unfortunate thing about the block/charge [distinction] is that I've had many, many times where a ref told me that you have to go to the floor to get the call. By the letter of the law, I've taken a hit, but I've stood on my feet. Even though I've gotten nailed, the ref calls it a no-call. I say, 'Ref, what's wrong with that [charge]?' He says, 'You have to go down to get the call.'

"Inherently, there's something wrong with that."
And you almost never see a standing charge these days, whereas if you remember or watch the older games, it happens at least 2-3 times a game where players didnt have to put themselves on the floor to get the charging calls, it was just based on positioning.

I'm just hoping it now takes the offensive flopping out of the game where players flail and throw their heads back and even throw themselves to the floor to get calls, see Fisher and Iverson for examples. But I also hope that players now try and play better positional D and theres more shotblocking now that players wlll hopefully now fear that if they just throw themselves infront of the offensive player and then throw themselves back that they're going to pay a penalty. And hopefully it gets to the point where its just instinctual again for players to actually make a play on the ball instead of flopping.

Superjudge 10-05-2012 04:09 PM

I just dont wanna see guys not get rewarded for moving their feet and making a good defensive play.


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