ESPN Screw Up - Page 4
Old 02-21-2012, 12:51 PM   #61 (permalink)
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poorly written article that is contradictory. it says its absolutely the right move from a public relations perspective but ESPN was wrong to apologize? huh?
and again, it would actually mean something if it was an asian american who said this isn't offense and we're just all over reacting.
My girlfriend is asian, i showed her this and she found it offensive but more then anything she thought whoever put that up was extremely stupid for not knowing better about how this might be viewed.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:52 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I'm guessing that with all the fuss, the word chink will not become obsolete, but will be used more often in it's derogatory context. There may also be a percentage of Asians that take ownership of the word and use it in yet another context, at which time we will need to decide whether that is ok or horribly wrong.

Here's what really bugs me about this beyond the words. There has been so much fuss about how ESPN was wrong to bring race into the equation, assuming that they intended that connection to be made. And yet so much of Lin's popularity and story have to do with his racial makeup, and that has been sanctioned as cause for a great deal of pride and celebration by those that can claim a racial connection. News outlets are working the race angle non-stop. It sells papers, and garners ratings. We've come a long way from when it was so easy to slip stereotypes into our everyday culture, and yet we still make far too much of what are ultimately insignificant associations. Part of the problem, in my mind, is that the true injustices of the past have not been addressed properly at all. Instead of giving the descendents of slaves their rightful compensation, we point to Jackie Robinson and all that followed, and try to avoid the N word, even if it's niggardly. Or we can look for some headline writer to be canned rather than address the truly ugly hatred that has existed and still lingers in too many places. That's the real world? It seems like bullshit piled atop bullshit - small lies to shield us from big lies. Wonderful.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by powerfulpanda
poorly written article that is contradictory. it says its absolutely the right move from a public relations perspective but ESPN was wrong to apologize? huh?
and again, it would actually mean something if it was an asian american who said this isn't offense and we're just all over reacting.
The point is, it wasn't directed offensively at you or any other asian american. It was used in a common phrase to describe something that was legitimate, which was Lin's 9 turnovers. The editor said he did not mean it as derogatory, so it shouldn't be.

Lin even stated 'You have to learn to forgive, and I don't even think that was intentional'. So yeah, I'd say people are over reacting.

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Old 02-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I dunno. Firing a guy for using the ugly slang is a start.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:03 PM   #65 (permalink)
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My girlfriend is asian, i showed her this and she found it offensive but more then anything she thought whoever put that up was extremely stupid for not knowing better about how this might be viewed.
did you tell her she was too sensitive? cuz that was what you said in ur first post.
people's past and backgrounds make them sensitive to certain things and who are we to say you are too sensitive? a black guy who was a victim of racism may be sensitive to the word nigger compared to a black guy who grew up without ever encountering racism. someone who is concious about their weight may be sensitive to the word fat. someone who was bullied may be sensitive to the word ugly. so who are we all to say that someone is too sensitive?
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:08 PM   #66 (permalink)
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did you tell her she was too sensitive? cuz that was what you said in ur first post.
people's past and backgrounds make them sensitive to certain things and who are we to say you are too sensitive? a black guy who was a victim of racism may be sensitive to the word nigger compared to a black guy who grew up without ever encountering racism. someone who is concious about their weight may be sensitive to the word fat. someone who was bullied may be sensitive to the word ugly. so who are we all to say that someone is too sensitive?
Those examples are completely different than this scenario. Nobody openly insulted anyone here. Everybody just over analysed a phrase that was not meant to be derogatory and took a racist meaning out of it. Thats completely different than openly insulting somebody about their race, weight, or appearance.

Edit: ^ I just reread your post and I think I misread it the first time. You didn't state anything about openly insulting anyone. My bad.

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Old 02-21-2012, 01:10 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
did you tell her she was too sensitive? cuz that was what you said in ur first post.
people's past and backgrounds make them sensitive to certain things and who are we to say you are too sensitive? a black guy who was a victim of racism may be sensitive to the word nigger compared to a black guy who grew up without ever encountering racism. someone who is concious about their weight may be sensitive to the word fat. someone who was bullied may be sensitive to the word ugly. so who are we all to say that someone is too sensitive?

I still think the uproar was overly sensitive and she see's that side of it as well because of the context it was written in. More then anything she finds it irresponsible and quite stupid to not realize it would offend some people and create an uproar. She did find it offensive though. We had a great conversation about it actually.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:16 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I still think the uproar was overly sensitive and she see's that side of it as well because of the context it was written in. More then anything she finds it irresponsible and quite stupid to not realize it would offend some people and create an uproar. She did find it offensive though. We had a great conversation about it actually.
i agree, completely mirrors my thoughts and feelings. the stupidity of the writer to even want to take that chance is reason to fire him.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Those examples are completely different than this scenario. Nobody openly insulted anyone here. Everybody just over analysed a phrase that was not meant to be derogatory and took a racist meaning out of it. Thats completely different than openly insulting somebody about their race, weight, or appearance.

Edit: ^ I just reread your post and I think I misread it the first time. You didn't state anything about openly insulting anyone. My bad.
no worries dude. my point is, you write a headline like that, thats open for interreptation. its open for intereptation, and we are in no place to judge how any certain individual would interept it.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:23 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Yeah I understand thats what you meant now.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:47 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
did you tell her she was too sensitive? cuz that was what you said in ur first post.
people's past and backgrounds make them sensitive to certain things and who are we to say you are too sensitive? a black guy who was a victim of racism may be sensitive to the word nigger compared to a black guy who grew up without ever encountering racism. someone who is concious about their weight may be sensitive to the word fat. someone who was bullied may be sensitive to the word ugly. so who are we all to say that someone is too sensitive?
We are people who are reacting to others that have proven to be too sensitive perhaps. I get what your saying. I'm not going to tell anyone what they should and should not be offended by. Otherwise they would be right to ask who am I to make that judgment for them. They should be respected enough to be referred to in terms that they deem appropriate. But they should Los have enough respect for others not to jump to conclusions about being called something when that is possibly not the case.

I've bred black miniature poodles for many years. One puppy that was sold to a friend was named Saru, which is a Japanese term for a monkey. Our dogs are very much like little monkeys. When my friend took her dog to work and explained the dog's name to a black co-worker, the co-worker was terribly and vehemently offended. Should my friend have apologized and changed the name of her dog because black people have been compared to monkeys, or because people have named their black dogs after famous black people (both of which are indeed very offensive)? Her intent never came close to either example of intolerance and disrespect, and if there was any disrespect shown, it was towards my friend. And yet if the dog was part of a sit-com, the network would have to lose the dog and "apologize". That is where the world is at.

How about if we hold accountable the largely white male contingent that holds the sorts of privileges that allows them to trash the world economy, even profit from the decline of the economy, and then even insist on the right to be able to do it all again unimpeded. Does Disney hold those guys accountable, or do they feed money and influence into maintaining a terrible imbalance that fosters anything but a fair and just society? How much has Disney profitted from selling offensive stereotypes to children for decades? But oh goody - they sacked some dork and apologized. Talk about irrelevant.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:53 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Whats the proper way to handle this then LX?
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:01 PM   #73 (permalink)
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poorly written article that is contradictory. it says its absolutely the right move from a public relations perspective but ESPN was wrong to apologize? huh?
and again, it would actually mean something if it was an asian american who said this isn't offense and we're just all over reacting.
It was not poorly written at all, and contained many good and well-thought out points. It is not contradictory. The point made was that there were bigger, more important imperatives at hand than mere public relations. And I'm sorry, but if you're going to apply the racial origins of the writer of this piece to determine whether or not it contains well-thought out points, then I'm a little offended. This article does not suggest that anyone but ESPN over-reacted, and that is where many of us have questions. As far as I'm concerned you can react any way you like. It is how a huge corporate entity addresses those reactions that becomes problematic. I find that in this case there isn't a lot of honesty employed by those with real power.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:09 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Whats the proper way to handle this then LX?
Immediately remove the headline and send out a memo to the entire infrastructure at Disney. Maybe send the employees involved to racial sensitivity training, which although likely just symbolic, would be better than labeling people as irredeemably racist when they were not, and having the whole thing become more of an issue than it was. They could have opened up real discussions with the idividuals and communities involved. They could have looked at their hiring practices throughout Disney, and made changes to ensure there was a level of diversity represented at all levels, which believe it or not would have a big impact on these sorts of things happening. All they really did was blow it up and then brush it off with a sacrificial firing and an apology.

Last edited by LX; 02-21-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:39 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Good idea's all, however they may already provide those programs... I know that I certainly don't know if they do however. I understand completely what your saying and don't disagree with you, I just believe that we may be reading way to much into it. in these situations you are going to see a sacrificial head roll.... its what happens. they have complete zero tolerance usually for stuff like this. You do the HR, and your sensitivity training, you do whatever level of HR you do, but, when there is a breakdown, and a guy informs a few hundred million people that There may be "CHINKS" in Jeremy Lins armour, amidst an already racially charged maelstrom...ya man, you're getting the axe. Hell I would have started cleaning out my desk LONG before they actually gave me the axe.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:14 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Jeremy Lin Ethnic Sensitivity - ESPN Video - ESPN

stephen A and skip discussing this topic on first take
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