The disappearing man: Amare Stoudemire - Page 2
Old 01-27-2012, 02:10 AM   #21 (permalink)
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without a decent PG, your bigs become pretty much useless, unless your a dominant bigman like howard, stoudemire, they tried to fill that void up with chandler but he aint doin what they wanted him to do.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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without a decent PG, your bigs become pretty much useless, unless your a dominant bigman like howard, stoudemire, they tried to fill that void up with chandler but he aint doin what they wanted him to do.
Dunno about that.... Bosh was pretty good when he was here and we've had some crap PGs over the years. I don't think that KG had any great PGs either when he was in Minny. Ditto for Kevin Love (until Rubio got there this year).
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Dunno about that.... Bosh was pretty good when he was here and we've had some crap PGs over the years. I don't think that KG had any great PGs either when he was in Minny. Ditto for Kevin Love (until Rubio got there this year).
Bosh with TJ or Jose.... versus Amare with Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert?

It's not even close. Amare was fantastic with Nash and Felton.... but NBDL pg's just don't cut it.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Donnie Walsh is a moron, why the hell would you trade your roster for a egotistical, self-centred chucker? Good for him, it's good foooor him.
apparently it was their owner.

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We can start with the 'Melo trade. Knicks owner Jim Dolan gets blamed for a lot of things, but "interfering" was never one of them. He was no George Steinbrenner, who overruled Yankee general managers for years and yet won championships anyway. Dolan hired GMs and let them do their job, which is fine, except the GMs he hired were bad.
When he finally landed a competent one in Donnie Walsh, Dolan picked a fine time to get involved.
Walsh argued against giving up starters and a first-rounder for 'Melo. The package was too steep, and besides, reasoned Walsh, the Knicks could simply sign 'Melo in the offseason and keep most of their team intact. 'Melo wanted a max contract under the old labor deal, and therefore threatened to force a trade to the Nets instead, but Walsh wanted to take that risk. Dolan evidently didn't. And so 'Melo became a Knick, at the expense of Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Ray Felton, players who started and filled significant roles.
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/feature.../01/27/knicks/
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Dunno about that.... Bosh was pretty good when he was here and we've had some crap PGs over the years. I don't think that KG had any great PGs either when he was in Minny. Ditto for Kevin Love (until Rubio got there this year).
you dont find hassan adams and roko ukic quality?!
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Its very simple why he's struggling on offence.

His usage rate is wayyyyy down, and when he does get the ball, the knicks lack of an offensive system combined with the worst guard play in the NBA means lack of space to operate not only for Amare but Melo.

How can either isolate 15 feet out when teams can just sit in their lap not having to guard their guards?

If Baron Davis does come back healthy and plays well I think we'll see Amare and Melos percentages and where they catch the ball be a LOT better.

But ultimately, if Amare/Melo are going to work, they need a coach who knows what he's doing(Dantonis offence only works with a good+ PNR and running PG, otherwise he doesnt have a clue) and they need to improve their guard rotation big time.

I think Melo Amare and Chandler can become the best frontcourt in the NBA as advertised if the stars align properly over the next year
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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If youve watched the first 8 minutes of the MIA NYK game, Amare hasnt touched the ball once. Theyre winning by hitting 3s at the end of the shot clock, but that in itself is insane that with Melo out they havent gotten him 1 iso yet
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Bosh with TJ or Jose.... versus Amare with Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert?

It's not even close. Amare was fantastic with Nash and Felton.... but NBDL pg's just don't cut it.
Yes, TJ was here for a short time and Jose (when healthy) has been solid. However, the Raps went through stretches where Will Solomon and Roko Ukic played significant minutes at the point for them.... and Bosh still produced.

Amare was being mentioned as an MVP candidate last season. Shouldn't an MVP be able to create his own offense?
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Its very simple why he's struggling on offence.

His usage rate is wayyyyy down, and when he does get the ball, the knicks lack of an offensive system combined with the worst guard play in the NBA means lack of space to operate not only for Amare but Melo.

How can either isolate 15 feet out when teams can just sit in their lap not having to guard their guards?

If Baron Davis does come back healthy and plays well I think we'll see Amare and Melos percentages and where they catch the ball be a LOT better.

But ultimately, if Amare/Melo are going to work, they need a coach who knows what he's doing(Dantonis offence only works with a good+ PNR and running PG, otherwise he doesnt have a clue) and they need to improve their guard rotation big time.

I think Melo Amare and Chandler can become the best frontcourt in the NBA as advertised if the stars align properly over the next year
Oh I get it.... I'm just flabbergasted as to how 2 all-star players (Amare and Melo) can't figure out how to maximize each other's strengths.

At the NBA level you really shouldn't need a coach explain things to players of that calibre. These are MAX SALARY guys that we're talking about here for God's sake. It's sad.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Oh I get it.... I'm just flabbergasted as to how 2 all-star players (Amare and Melo) can't figure out how to maximize each other's strengths.

At the NBA level you really shouldn't need a coach explain things to players of that calibre. These are MAX SALARY guys that we're talking about here for God's sake. It's sad.
good point! these guys should work for my company...

how about quarterly/annual performance reviews and conditional bonuses?
oh, I'm sorry, I forgot, we don't have a union
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Had another quite game against Miami. 12 points and 6 boards. 5-14 from the field.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Dunno about that.... Bosh was pretty good when he was here and we've had some crap PGs over the years. I don't think that KG had any great PGs either when he was in Minny. Ditto for Kevin Love (until Rubio got there this year).
Put it this way, if you have no postup game, your useless. lol. Amir doesn't really have any post up game, he really relies on Calderon's passes to get baskets, or the odd offensive rebound. KG was a beast, and Bosh's post up game was really good.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:57 PM   #33 (permalink)
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He got consistently triple teamed yesterday, and all the other Knicks did was chuck 3s. I feel bad for Amare.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Put it this way, if you have no postup game, your useless. lol. Amir doesn't really have any post up game, he really relies on Calderon's passes to get baskets, or the odd offensive rebound. KG was a beast, and Bosh's post up game was really good.
As much as I love Bosh I don't think I can agree with that.... Bosh's post-up game has improved quite a bit since going to MIA but it wasn't anything special here. He was just exceptional off the dribble and it allowed him to "freelance" without being spoon-fed 24/7.

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He got consistently triple teamed yesterday, and all the other Knicks did was chuck 3s. I feel bad for Amare.
Meh. Hard to feel sorry for him. He was in the ideal situation in PHX and he chose to leave to get paid. Dem's da breaks.

He's just getting a taste of what Bosh had to go through for 5+ years. Except his team is STILL far more talented than anything we ever had here lol.
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:53 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Chrisbosh is a freelancer, :cookie: I still think he has good post up game
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Dunno about that.... Bosh was pretty good when he was here and we've had some crap PGs over the years. I don't think that KG had any great PGs either when he was in Minny. Ditto for Kevin Love (until Rubio got there this year).
One thing our PG's could always do was pass. TJ and Jose both averaged 9+ assists. We had pass first PG's, even if they weren't 20/10 guys.

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Amare was being mentioned as an MVP candidate last season. Shouldn't an MVP be able to create his own offense?
Yep. Goes to show you just how important PG's are!
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:06 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Last year at this time, he was the 'man' in NY. averaging over 25 ppg, 9 rebs.... he had the Knicks looking like an actual contender.
he put together that string of games scoring 30+ in over 10 games in a row (or something like that).
He was relishing his status as the best PF in the league, and he really was the best PF at that time, without a doubt.
IMO the Knicks fell victim to the "Superteam" concept - just get 2 or 3 superstars and you're all set. The thing with the Celtics & Heat is that they have unselfish superstars (in the basketball sense, not the life sense). When the Celtics put together that core of Allen/KG/ Pierce, I figured it had a chance of working because they were all 4+ assist per game guys. Same thing goes for the Heat - LeBron and Wade are both 5+ assist guys.

The Knicks had a passing chance of being very solid with Baron Davis and Billups at PG; they foolishly let Billups walk and Baron hasn't played yet. Their PG play is just atrocious, and it magnifies all of the inherent problems of having two offense-first superstars and not too much else.

They don't have enough "intangibles" guys and Landry Fields has had problems finding his role on the team. Bill Walker and Toney Douglas are getting inconsistent minutes (30+ mins one game, high teens the next) and have regressed from two years ago.

Also, IMO, Mike D'Antoni is absolutely atrocious at managing the minutes of his stars and developing a bench. It follows him everywhere he goes. He rides his starters too hard and role players have to make something happen in limited minutes or they get the quick yank. He's like the exact opposite of a Greg Popovich, whose team has defined roles and when a key cog goes down (like Duncan, Parker or Ginobili), other players up their role and their game and the team doesn't miss a beat.

I fear that when Baron Davis starts to play for the Knicks, he'll quickly start to get 40 mins a game. They'll be much better, but he'll burn out awfully fast.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:12 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Amare/Melo can't co-exist. They need to trade one of them for a big time PG.
CP3 was already traded :cookie:
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:14 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Amare/Melo can't co-exist. They need to trade one of them for a big time PG.
The Knicks really fucked themselves taking Jordan Hill in 2009 instead of a point guard.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:12 PM   #40 (permalink)
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One thing our PG's could always do was pass. TJ and Jose both averaged 9+ assists. We had pass first PG's, even if they weren't 20/10 guys.
TJ wasn't here long though... and Jose was 100% healthy for what? One season or two out of the last 6?

Of course a PG makes life easier for any big man but Bosh didn't need one nearly as much as a "traditional big" would have. He didn't use much of a low post game and initiated his offense from the top of the key off the dribble.
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