CP3 to Lakers - and then, not so much - Page 10
Old 12-09-2011, 07:59 PM   #181 (permalink)
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It's true that what the owners have done should not have been allowed, but that doesn't begin with this scenario. They should not be owning the Hornets. That never should have happened. And if it was the only acceptable option at the time, then everything possible should have been done to end the situation by fining new ownership, or at least considering contraction.

The ownership situation is really worrisome to me. You've got this shit, you've got crooks like Prokhorov that never should have been brought into the fold. You've got more and more interest from the financial sector and less from real people that can at least appreciate the sport as well as the business. And you've got too many that are divisive and cantankerous, and wanting to control players to the extent that they make Bryant Gumbel's words ring true (and I would guess that is why the NBAPA has stuck it's nose in there).

It doesn't offer the league a great sense of where it is headed, and between that sense of being rudderless and the pricing in point being out of the range of all but the biggest money, it can't be any easier to figure out who will take over the Hornets, or inevitably the next team or teams that end up in a similar situation.
i don't think contraction was ever a viable option. It's much more of a PR disaster than risking this CP3 situation. And it's very expensive. You have to buy the team, pay off the loans, settle the contracts, probably adjust national NBA endorsement and TV contracts, and so on.

I think the plan is to sit tight for a while, then say "hey we tried to keep this team here, hard" and move it, and sell to some owner in another market. If not for Katrina, they would have done it a long time ago. It's obvious there aren't ppl who want to buy it and keep in N.O. with all those losses.
Post-Katrina and post-SuperSonics, it's a very delicate situation, they can't rush it.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:33 AM   #182 (permalink)
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but I really, really dispute that this was the other owners acting as Hornet's owners. They were looking after themselves.
Well spoken. This fiasco has all been about the owners feeling that the Lakers didn't get hurt enough, as opposed to any benefit to NOLA.

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Old 12-10-2011, 12:40 AM   #183 (permalink)
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Gilbert's email is a largely an argument about competitive balance. He is upset that a big-market team has a good chance at continuing to be successful, while he toils away in Cleveland. It seems clear to me that he is writing from the perspective of an owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers, rather than as an acting owner of the New Orleans Hornets. He's worried that his team is going to be a "Washington General."

Notice Gilbert never says anything about any of the negatives of stopping this deal, including the near certainty that the Hornets will not get a deal this good again, and may lose Paul for nothing in the summer because of this. Or that they've just shit on Demps. Or that the league willingly allowed these teams to destroy their relationship with players they ended up forcing them to keep.

I don't know exactly where I stand on this one, but I really, really dispute that this was the other owners acting as Hornet's owners. They were looking after themselves.
what's this email? can someone link please, i missed it.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:49 AM   #184 (permalink)
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what's this email? can someone link please, i missed it.
Gilbert email to Stern
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:10 AM   #185 (permalink)
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lol! if this is real, Dan Gilbert is waaaaay too straightforward even in his inside dealings.
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:24 AM   #186 (permalink)
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But if what he's saying is true then this really is a dream trade for LA, the lose cap and get the better player, its actually ridiculous how one sided this is if what he says is true.
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:34 AM   #187 (permalink)
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yes, the deal is insanely good for Lakers.
It would just be way more "diplomatic" to speak about how bad the deal is to the Hornets (where Gilbert is a co-owner through NBA) rather than focus entirely on the Lakers side of things. Nothing forbids Lakers from getting great deals, so if I was Buss or Kupchak, I'd really want to tell Gilbert to fuck off after reading this.

But if Gilbert made that argument from Hornets point of view, as a co-owner, it would simply look much better. "hey, that team is bankrupt, and they are taking on 40 mil while losing their marketable superstar a full year early? and i'm supposed to keep paying their debts?"

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Old 12-10-2011, 09:31 AM   #188 (permalink)
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yes, the deal is insanely good for Lakers.
It would just be way more "diplomatic" to speak about how bad the deal is to the Hornets (where Gilbert is a co-owner through NBA) rather than focus entirely on the Lakers side of things. Nothing forbids Lakers from getting great deals, so if I was Buss or Kupchak, I'd really want to tell Gilbert to fuck off after reading this.

But if Gilbert made that argument from Hornets point of view, as a co-owner, it would simply look much better. "hey, that team is bankrupt, and they are taking on 40 mil while losing their marketable superstar a full year early? and i'm supposed to keep paying their debts?"
Here's something the tactless Mr.Gilbert can appreciate, since he did it to the Lakers and Chris Paul (though Paul is showing himself to be a douche bag)
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:34 PM   #189 (permalink)
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ESPNSteinLine: new CP trade btwn LAL, NO & Hou has been submitted to NBA office for approval”
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:55 PM   #190 (permalink)
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I really hope this deal doesn't go through. What happens if Bynum goes down? I'd much rather they pursue Howard.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:59 PM   #191 (permalink)
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I really hope this deal doesn't go through. What happens if Bynum goes down? I'd much rather they pursue Howard.
It's all apart of the plan.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:17 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Apparently the new deal sends Okafor to the Lakers ??? WTF. Maybe a Bynum /Okafor for Howard? I thought the new deal was supposed to hurt the Lakers.
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:21 PM   #193 (permalink)
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from Larry Coon - NBA -- Critique of Dan Gilbert's letter - ESPN

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But if there was any question about Paul's exit from New Orleans before this mess went down, those questions are now answered -- he's now a lock to be playing elsewhere next season. So the Hornets still need to trade him or lose him for nothing. Raise your hand if you think Demps will be able to find another offer that beats this one, either now or at the trade deadline. And if he waits for the smoke to clear from this mess, he will have an unhappy superstar on his hands for much of the season.

So what can happen at this point? If the league has dug in its heels and won't reconsider its decision -- and Stern's statement would seem to indicate that this is the case -- then perhaps the trade can quickly be reconstituted in another form, in a way that satisfies all three teams and passes muster with the commissioner.

If that fails, then we have a true scandal on our hands -- one with potential legal consequences. But even as Paul and the players' association explore their options, some legal analysts caution that there may not be any recourse. "If the governance of the Hornets was not subject to collective bargaining," said Houston attorney David Holmes, "then yes, there is a potential antitrust claim." But Holmes cautioned that it's not clear who would have legal standing to bring such a suit. "Who is actually injured here? Probably the Hornets, Rockets and Lakers. Chris Paul had no right to be traded. He is still going to get his full salary. I'm not sure that Paul or the union would have antitrust standing. The teams aren't going to sue, so this is probably just an academic matter."

According to some agents, had this incident occurred prior to their ratification vote rather than afterward, the outcome of the players' voting might have been different. But the union may still have another recourse at its disposal. "It is unlikely that the entire CBA has been drafted," said Holmes, "given that some of the terms were still being worked out on Wednesday morning. If the union wants to make an issue of this, they could say, 'You have created a new issue that now must be collectively bargained before we sign the agreement.'"

But as satisfying as this outcome might be to many players and fans, it is unlikely to actually happen. Instead, the teams and players will pick up the pieces and resume their business. But the damage has already been done. This is a huge black eye on the integrity of the league -- at a time when it can ill afford such problems.

Everyone failed here. Gilbert failed for his obtuse lack of critical thinking and for his blatant attempt to coerce Stern for his own benefit. The "vast majority of owners" Gilbert cited failed for going along with these shenanigans. And Stern failed for caving and allowing this to happen.

"When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?" Gilbert asked in his letter to Stern. At least the Generals never employed such underhanded measures to try to keep the Globetrotters from winning.

The NBA is now worse than a league of Washington Generals.

It's officially a circus.
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:36 PM   #194 (permalink)
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larry coon should go back to answering frequently asked questions about the cba.
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:15 PM   #195 (permalink)
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The Lakers, Hornets, and Rockets sent an updated deal to the NBA for approval on Saturday night, and there is no timetable yet for a decision.

We're waiting for the news to crawl in here, but the league is so painted into a corner that the arm-twisting is taking time. Their 'big' additions so far have been Devin Ebanks, Patrick Patterson, and Courtney Lee to the Hornets, with the Lakers taking back Jason Smith and Marcus Banks to reduce Hornet expenditures. The Lakers are also said to be looking to acquire a first round pick to offer to sweeten the deal, but they're not going to give up the farm when many believe they gave up too much already.

The Lakers are still in the Dwight Howard hunt, as well. Stay tuned.
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Mitch Kupchak would be the greatest GM in NBA history if he were to pull this off.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:01 AM   #197 (permalink)
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WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski The three-way deal to send Chris Paul to the Lakers has "fallen apart," league source involved in talks says.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:02 AM   #198 (permalink)
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:10 AM   #199 (permalink)
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@WojYahooNBA: Lakers and Hornets won't pursue a direct deal for Chris Paul either, source says. "L.A. can't give them what they need,"
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:14 AM   #200 (permalink)
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@WojYahooNBA: Says one Western Conference executive: "The Lakers are shifting toward trying to make a Dwight Howard deal."
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