Clippers targeting Zeke?
Old 02-05-2010, 08:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Does this seem funny to anyone else?

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According to a source close to the situation, the Clippers have reached out to Thomas -- who coached the Indiana Pacers and also the New York Knicks -- to take over coaching, general manager and president duties.
Los Angeles Clippers Isiah Thomas - CBK News - FOX Sports on MSN
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Is this rumour true? This would be a perfect match.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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And the curse continues.....?

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Old 02-05-2010, 09:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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lol woww
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If he could just be a draft consultant he'd be gold. The man knows talent.

But keep him the hell away from coaching or making deals.
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If he knows talent so well how'd he justify trading lottery picks for Eddy Curry? Fat deals for Jerome James and Jared Jeffries?

Thomas is a maroon
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Old 02-06-2010, 02:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
If he could just be a draft consultant he'd be gold. The man knows talent.

But keep him the hell away from coaching or making deals.
I agree with the idea of making him a draft consultant, although I wouldn't go as far as to call it "gold." As a draft consultant with minimal power and responsibility, he might be able to help an organization. Anything more than that is laughable, as I'm sure almost everyone agrees.

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Originally Posted by zachus View Post
If he knows talent so well how'd he justify trading lottery picks for Eddy Curry? Fat deals for Jerome James and Jared Jeffries?

Thomas is a maroon
Okay, Zach, I feel compelled to defend TORap a bit. I'm also going to play devil's advocate and explain how, in the context of 2005, a reasonable basketball mind might do the Curry trade and think it will work out okay.

1 - The Jerome James and Jared Jeffries signings are seperate from his ability to draft young players for the NBA. There is no disputing the fact that Zeke lacks critical thinking when it comes to managing the salary cap and deciding what price tag should be placed on particular players and their respective skill sets. Managing and drafting are two different things. Yes, to a degree, they cross over, but being bad at one doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. And being good at one of those things doesn't mean you'll be good at the other. There are respectable GMs who make wise trades and manage the cap well, yet fuck up on draft day. Ron Thorn, for example, is a savy GM who has made poor draft day selections. Just something to consider.

2 - The Curry Trade is not as aweful as people frequently suggest. Yes, New York lost that trade, but not by the margin some writers claim. Let's evaluate that trade. The Bulls got the Knicks 2006 lottery pick and the right to swap picks in the 2007 draft. The Knicks got Curry, and expiring Antoni Davis's contract, and Chicago's 2007 pick.

Was that a really terrible trade? It might have turned out bad, but in 2005 it might not have been a terrible idea. Curry showed some real promise on the offensive end during his last year in Chicago. If paired with a defensive minded front court player, he could have been very useful to a team. Also, the 2006 draft was weak in terms of available big men. A good scout would have been aware of that, and might have thought Curry was better than anything NY could get with its 2006 pick, if it was looking for a big. NY didn't know their lottery pick would end up at #2. Let's look at how it turned out. Bargs was already gone by the time Chicago used NY's pick, and the best available big was Aldridge, who Chicago took yet later traded for Tyrus Thomas. If Curry had remained healthy, one could make the case that he was as good as Aldridge, with higher upside.. Maybe you could say that Zeke should have known Curry would get fat, but I'm not sure that's fair.

In Curry's best season, at the age of 24, he was an efficient offensive beast for the Knicks. He wasn't a solid rebounder or shot blocker, but neither is Lamarcus Aldridge. At 24, Curry did this:

FG%: .576
PPG: 19.5
RPG: 7.0
He was only taking 12.5 shots per game. Efficient.
8 free throw attemps per game, which put pressure on opposing bigs.

At 24, Aldridge's best season so far looks like this:

FG% .484
PPG: 18.1
RPG: 7.5
He was taking 15.3 shots per game. Decent scoring efficiency.
4 free throw attempts. That's to be expected from a midrange jumpshooter.

Now, for the sake of considering at how the deal evolved, we need to ask what happened in the 2007 draft in which Chicago got to swap picks with NY? Well, Chicago drafted well and picked Joakim Noah, who has loads of potential. However, NY did not get totally raped. Since Zeke is good at drafting, he turned Chicago's 23 pick into a useful prospect by drafting Wilson Chandler. Obviously, Noah is better than Chandler, but he Chandler has some upside. He's only 22 and has proven he can be a decent 3rd scoring option. In his sophomore year he averaged over 14 ppg and his scoring has increased again this season to over 15 ppg on 47% shooting. If Chandler ever develops his 3 point shooting, he could average 18 ppg and be part of a big 3 on a playoff calibre team. He's still young and it could happen.

So, let's recap how this played out in reality:

Chicago has:
Noah
Tyrus Thomas

NY has:
Curry (who had a solid season when healthy)
Wilson Chandler

It's worth keeping in mind that Curry's $11 mill contract expires next year and could be a valuable trading chip, so it could turn out to be an unintentional blessing. But the main point is that in 2005, the trade didn't look that aweful. I mean, if Curry was still providing 19 ppg on over 55% shooting, trading one pick plus right to swap picks a year later wouldn't seem so terrible, especially when Zeke has the ability to pluck out players like Chandler with late round picks.

3 - Let's look at who Zeke has drafted in order to show that his drafting decisions are waaaaaay better than his other managerial moves. While working for the Raptors, Zeke drafted the following players:

7th pick - Stoudamire - 1996 Rookie of the Year
2nd Pick - Camby - 2007 Defensive Player of the Year
9th pick - MacGrady - 2 time NBA scoring leader

So he can obviously do something with lottery picks. But he's also pretty good with later picks; Zeke demonstrated that in NY.

2004 - drafted Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round. Solid pick.
2005 - during a draft day trade, he acquired Nate Robinson via the 21st pick
2005 - He used the 30th pick to snag David Lee. Solid pick.
2006 - He lost his lottery pick to the Bulls. But he obtained a pick from the Raps and drafted Balkman. That's probably his only late 1st rounder that didn't show promise.
2007 - He used the 23rd pick to get Wilson Chandler. Solid pick.

Conclusion: Regardless of his other shortcomings, Zeke would make a solid draft consultant.
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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hay if Curry drop some weight he could be a very useful player in the right system,

but the problem is he is a head case, if he wasn't every team in the league would be signing up for him
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmChairGM View Post
I agree with the idea of making him a draft consultant, although I wouldn't go as far as to call it "gold." As a draft consultant with minimal power and responsibility, he might be able to help an organization. Anything more than that is laughable, as I'm sure almost everyone agrees.



Okay, Zach, I feel compelled to defend TORap a bit. I'm also going to play devil's advocate and explain how, in the context of 2005, a reasonable basketball mind might do the Curry trade and think it will work out okay.

1 - The Jerome James and Jared Jeffries signings are seperate from his ability to draft young players for the NBA. There is no disputing the fact that Zeke lacks critical thinking when it comes to managing the salary cap and deciding what price tag should be placed on particular players and their respective skill sets. Managing and drafting are two different things. Yes, to a degree, they cross over, but being bad at one doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. And being good at one of those things doesn't mean you'll be good at the other. There are respectable GMs who make wise trades and manage the cap well, yet fuck up on draft day. Ron Thorn, for example, is a savy GM who has made poor draft day selections. Just something to consider.

2 - The Curry Trade is not as aweful as people frequently suggest. Yes, New York lost that trade, but not by the margin some writers claim. Let's evaluate that trade. The Bulls got the Knicks 2006 lottery pick and the right to swap picks in the 2007 draft. The Knicks got Curry, and expiring Antoni Davis's contract, and Chicago's 2007 pick.

Was that a really terrible trade? It might have turned out bad, but in 2005 it might not have been a terrible idea. Curry showed some real promise on the offensive end during his last year in Chicago. If paired with a defensive minded front court player, he could have been very useful to a team. Also, the 2006 draft was weak in terms of available big men. A good scout would have been aware of that, and might have thought Curry was better than anything NY could get with its 2006 pick, if it was looking for a big. NY didn't know their lottery pick would end up at #2. Let's look at how it turned out. Bargs was already gone by the time Chicago used NY's pick, and the best available big was Aldridge, who Chicago took yet later traded for Tyrus Thomas. If Curry had remained healthy, one could make the case that he was as good as Aldridge, with higher upside.. Maybe you could say that Zeke should have known Curry would get fat, but I'm not sure that's fair.

In Curry's best season, at the age of 24, he was an efficient offensive beast for the Knicks. He wasn't a solid rebounder or shot blocker, but neither is Lamarcus Aldridge. At 24, Curry did this:

FG%: .576
PPG: 19.5
RPG: 7.0
He was only taking 12.5 shots per game. Efficient.
8 free throw attemps per game, which put pressure on opposing bigs.

At 24, Aldridge's best season so far looks like this:

FG% .484
PPG: 18.1
RPG: 7.5
He was taking 15.3 shots per game. Decent scoring efficiency.
4 free throw attempts. That's to be expected from a midrange jumpshooter.

Now, for the sake of considering at how the deal evolved, we need to ask what happened in the 2007 draft in which Chicago got to swap picks with NY? Well, Chicago drafted well and picked Joakim Noah, who has loads of potential. However, NY did not get totally raped. Since Zeke is good at drafting, he turned Chicago's 23 pick into a useful prospect by drafting Wilson Chandler. Obviously, Noah is better than Chandler, but he Chandler has some upside. He's only 22 and has proven he can be a decent 3rd scoring option. In his sophomore year he averaged over 14 ppg and his scoring has increased again this season to over 15 ppg on 47% shooting. If Chandler ever develops his 3 point shooting, he could average 18 ppg and be part of a big 3 on a playoff calibre team. He's still young and it could happen.

So, let's recap how this played out in reality:

Chicago has:
Noah
Tyrus Thomas

NY has:
Curry (who had a solid season when healthy)
Wilson Chandler

It's worth keeping in mind that Curry's $11 mill contract expires next year and could be a valuable trading chip, so it could turn out to be an unintentional blessing. But the main point is that in 2005, the trade didn't look that aweful. I mean, if Curry was still providing 19 ppg on over 55% shooting, trading one pick plus right to swap picks a year later wouldn't seem so terrible, especially when Zeke has the ability to pluck out players like Chandler with late round picks.

3 - Let's look at who Zeke has drafted in order to show that his drafting decisions are waaaaaay better than his other managerial moves. While working for the Raptors, Zeke drafted the following players:

7th pick - Stoudamire - 1996 Rookie of the Year
2nd Pick - Camby - 2007 Defensive Player of the Year
9th pick - MacGrady - 2 time NBA scoring leader

So he can obviously do something with lottery picks. But he's also pretty good with later picks; Zeke demonstrated that in NY.

2004 - drafted Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round. Solid pick.
2005 - during a draft day trade, he acquired Nate Robinson via the 21st pick
2005 - He used the 30th pick to snag David Lee. Solid pick.
2006 - He lost his lottery pick to the Bulls. But he obtained a pick from the Raps and drafted Balkman. That's probably his only late 1st rounder that didn't show promise.
2007 - He used the 23rd pick to get Wilson Chandler. Solid pick.

Conclusion: Regardless of his other shortcomings, Zeke would make a solid draft consultant.
Holy shit, ACGM is a god-damn machine! Props to anyone who read that whole post.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmChairGM View Post
I agree with the idea of making him a draft consultant, although I wouldn't go as far as to call it "gold." As a draft consultant with minimal power and responsibility, he might be able to help an organization. Anything more than that is laughable, as I'm sure almost everyone agrees.



Okay, Zach, I feel compelled to defend TORap a bit. I'm also going to play devil's advocate and explain how, in the context of 2005, a reasonable basketball mind might do the Curry trade and think it will work out okay.

1 - The Jerome James and Jared Jeffries signings are seperate from his ability to draft young players for the NBA. There is no disputing the fact that Zeke lacks critical thinking when it comes to managing the salary cap and deciding what price tag should be placed on particular players and their respective skill sets. Managing and drafting are two different things. Yes, to a degree, they cross over, but being bad at one doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. And being good at one of those things doesn't mean you'll be good at the other. There are respectable GMs who make wise trades and manage the cap well, yet fuck up on draft day. Ron Thorn, for example, is a savy GM who has made poor draft day selections. Just something to consider.

2 - The Curry Trade is not as aweful as people frequently suggest. Yes, New York lost that trade, but not by the margin some writers claim. Let's evaluate that trade. The Bulls got the Knicks 2006 lottery pick and the right to swap picks in the 2007 draft. The Knicks got Curry, and expiring Antoni Davis's contract, and Chicago's 2007 pick.

Was that a really terrible trade? It might have turned out bad, but in 2005 it might not have been a terrible idea. Curry showed some real promise on the offensive end during his last year in Chicago. If paired with a defensive minded front court player, he could have been very useful to a team. Also, the 2006 draft was weak in terms of available big men. A good scout would have been aware of that, and might have thought Curry was better than anything NY could get with its 2006 pick, if it was looking for a big. NY didn't know their lottery pick would end up at #2. Let's look at how it turned out. Bargs was already gone by the time Chicago used NY's pick, and the best available big was Aldridge, who Chicago took yet later traded for Tyrus Thomas. If Curry had remained healthy, one could make the case that he was as good as Aldridge, with higher upside.. Maybe you could say that Zeke should have known Curry would get fat, but I'm not sure that's fair.

In Curry's best season, at the age of 24, he was an efficient offensive beast for the Knicks. He wasn't a solid rebounder or shot blocker, but neither is Lamarcus Aldridge. At 24, Curry did this:

FG%: .576
PPG: 19.5
RPG: 7.0
He was only taking 12.5 shots per game. Efficient.
8 free throw attemps per game, which put pressure on opposing bigs.

At 24, Aldridge's best season so far looks like this:

FG% .484
PPG: 18.1
RPG: 7.5
He was taking 15.3 shots per game. Decent scoring efficiency.
4 free throw attempts. That's to be expected from a midrange jumpshooter.

Now, for the sake of considering at how the deal evolved, we need to ask what happened in the 2007 draft in which Chicago got to swap picks with NY? Well, Chicago drafted well and picked Joakim Noah, who has loads of potential. However, NY did not get totally raped. Since Zeke is good at drafting, he turned Chicago's 23 pick into a useful prospect by drafting Wilson Chandler. Obviously, Noah is better than Chandler, but he Chandler has some upside. He's only 22 and has proven he can be a decent 3rd scoring option. In his sophomore year he averaged over 14 ppg and his scoring has increased again this season to over 15 ppg on 47% shooting. If Chandler ever develops his 3 point shooting, he could average 18 ppg and be part of a big 3 on a playoff calibre team. He's still young and it could happen.

So, let's recap how this played out in reality:

Chicago has:
Noah
Tyrus Thomas

NY has:
Curry (who had a solid season when healthy)
Wilson Chandler

It's worth keeping in mind that Curry's $11 mill contract expires next year and could be a valuable trading chip, so it could turn out to be an unintentional blessing. But the main point is that in 2005, the trade didn't look that aweful. I mean, if Curry was still providing 19 ppg on over 55% shooting, trading one pick plus right to swap picks a year later wouldn't seem so terrible, especially when Zeke has the ability to pluck out players like Chandler with late round picks.

3 - Let's look at who Zeke has drafted in order to show that his drafting decisions are waaaaaay better than his other managerial moves. While working for the Raptors, Zeke drafted the following players:

7th pick - Stoudamire - 1996 Rookie of the Year
2nd Pick - Camby - 2007 Defensive Player of the Year
9th pick - MacGrady - 2 time NBA scoring leader

So he can obviously do something with lottery picks. But he's also pretty good with later picks; Zeke demonstrated that in NY.

2004 - drafted Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round. Solid pick.
2005 - during a draft day trade, he acquired Nate Robinson via the 21st pick
2005 - He used the 30th pick to snag David Lee. Solid pick.
2006 - He lost his lottery pick to the Bulls. But he obtained a pick from the Raps and drafted Balkman. That's probably his only late 1st rounder that didn't show promise.
2007 - He used the 23rd pick to get Wilson Chandler. Solid pick.

Conclusion: Regardless of his other shortcomings, Zeke would make a solid draft consultant.
wow that's a good post.

Smart Guy approved
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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If he knows talent so well how'd he justify trading lottery picks for Eddy Curry? Fat deals for Jerome James and Jared Jeffries?

Thomas is a maroon
He is also good for getting the worst out of any player.
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