bosh as the x-factor? and always considered in a package with wade? - Page 7

Go Back   Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards > NBA Discussion > NBA Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2011, 11:47 PM   #121 (permalink)
streets ahead.

Senior Member
 
SomeDPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,780
Representing:
Default

Ok so Bosh plays well below the expectations laid on him based on 7+ years of play and the Heat still win. Can we stop this BS of him being the X-factor now? :deadhorse:
SomeDPlease is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2011, 11:53 PM   #122 (permalink)
"We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up"

Senior Member
 
forme123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 562
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
So because of that you can't admit that he plays well? I suppose you didn't praise Dirk last night, or Derrick Rose in the Playoffs or Wade when he goes off? I mean shit, they're expected to do what they're doing. Good to know you won't praise any stars for playing well, i mean with all that moula they make and all.
please dont put Bosh in the same sentence as those guys....they actually live up to their contract.

and ya i have praised wade a bunch this offseason even tho hes a member of that evil team, and rose on occasions too

and yes ive praised dirk, i dont think i have particularly on this forum, but i was raving about him to people today at work

so ya i dont see where you want this argument to go....do i have to start praising everybody now to live up to ur expectations........
forme123 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2011, 11:57 PM   #123 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,650
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by forme123 View Post
please dont put Bosh in the same sentence as those guys....they actually live up to their contract.

and ya i have praised wade a bunch this offseason even tho hes a member of that evil team, and rose on occasions too

and yes ive praised dirk, i dont think i have particularly on this forum, but i was raving about him to people today at work

so ya i dont see where you want this argument to go....do i have to start praising everybody now to live up to ur expectations........
Well you wouldn't give Bosh any credit when he plays well because that's what's expected of him and his large contract. So by that logic, any high priced player that has high expectations which goes with a large contract, souldn't be praised when they play well considering that's what is expected of them. Then again, i'm assuming you'll argue that as well.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 12:01 AM   #124 (permalink)
"We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up"

Senior Member
 
forme123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 562
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Well you wouldn't give Bosh any credit when he plays well because that's what's expected of him and his large contract. So by that logic, any high priced player that has high expectations which goes with a large contract, souldn't be praised when they play well considering that's what is expected of them. Then again, i'm assuming you'll argue that as well.
bosh played well game 1....okay happy? but not so well game 2....notice that pattern, its been on and off all playoffs for him...... hes been far too inconsistent
forme123 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 12:37 AM   #125 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDPlease View Post
Ok so Bosh plays well below the expectations laid on him based on 7+ years of play and the Heat still win. Can we stop this BS of him being the X-factor now? :deadhorse:
Do you understand what an "X-factor" is?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 12:44 AM   #126 (permalink)
streets ahead.

Senior Member
 
SomeDPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,780
Representing:
Default



Care to explain?
SomeDPlease is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 06:45 AM   #127 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,821
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by forme123 View Post
everything, his stats, his energy, his aggressiveness on the boards, his hard nosed defense, he played with his heart even tho his conditioning isnt up to par yet. Bosh didnt play with the same intensity and..... oh ya, and Bosh played twice the minutes, got less points as well....anything else

i just dont see whats so crazy about the claim?!?! i only said this game ffs.... maybe its you who defends ur man a little too much?
Please. you make the ridiculous claims and then bitch about me pointing it out.

Haslem was very effective for about fifteen minutes with all the stuff you mention. The rest of his minutes were valuable in that he allowed Lebron and Bosh to get some rest. But Chicago did take advantage of that time.

There was nothing wrong with Bosh's intensity. He drove to the basket, he grabbed key boards, he changed a ton of shots by Rose and the Bulls' bigs. But you equate that with him playing badly and proving to be inconsistent. Wow. I'm guessing that the Heat would be thrilled to have him play so badly the rest of the way. The Bulls scored 75. 29 in the second half. You don't see the importance of that? If not then I give up.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 06:18 PM   #128 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDPlease View Post


Care to explain?
Sure.

In order for MIA to win this series both Wade and Bron are going to have to play well AND they're going to need 1 other player to step up and chip in with some offense.

That's likely to be Bosh. It pretty much has been all season.... which is why the Heat are so tough to beat when all 3 go for 70+ pts.

Wade and Bron are arguably the 2 best players in the league so their performance is going to be be fairly steady for the most part.

Bosh isn't at their level as a player and is playing against a very good frontcourt with excellent defensive players... his performance could be limited given that he also doesn't have the ball in his hands much.

So basically... Bosh = The "X-factor". If he goes off (and Wade and Bron play their usual good games) the Heat win. If he doesn't and no one else steps up, they lose.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 09:51 PM   #129 (permalink)
"We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up"

Senior Member
 
forme123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 562
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Please. you make the ridiculous claims and then bitch about me pointing it out.

Haslem was very effective for about fifteen minutes with all the stuff you mention. The rest of his minutes were valuable in that he allowed Lebron and Bosh to get some rest. But Chicago did take advantage of that time.

There was nothing wrong with Bosh's intensity. He drove to the basket, he grabbed key boards, he changed a ton of shots by Rose and the Bulls' bigs. But you equate that with him playing badly and proving to be inconsistent. Wow. I'm guessing that the Heat would be thrilled to have him play so badly the rest of the way. The Bulls scored 75. 29 in the second half. You don't see the importance of that? If not then I give up.
ya and my claims are ridiculous......bosh and intensity go together like Bargnani and rebounding

at least some of my claims have statistics to back them up (points, rebounding)....

Last edited by forme123; 05-19-2011 at 09:57 PM.
forme123 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 10:18 PM   #130 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,821
Representing:
Default

great - ok - stats prove irrevocably that Bosh lacked intensity. The Bulls scored 10 points in the 4th quarter. Chew on that stat for a while and tell me how Bosh failed so miserably. I watched the game - in it's entirety. I watched a good deal of Miami games throughout the year. Believe me - I noticed when Bosh lacked intensity or when he played badly. I didn't need to look at a boxscore. But keep looking at your boxscore. Must be fun.

Last edited by LX; 05-19-2011 at 10:20 PM.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 11:35 PM   #131 (permalink)
"We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up"

Senior Member
 
forme123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 562
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
great - ok - stats prove irrevocably that Bosh lacked intensity. The Bulls scored 10 points in the 4th quarter. Chew on that stat for a while and tell me how Bosh failed so miserably. I watched the game - in it's entirety. I watched a good deal of Miami games throughout the year. Believe me - I noticed when Bosh lacked intensity or when he played badly. I didn't need to look at a boxscore. But keep looking at your boxscore. Must be fun.
oh its a blast!! must be fun praising Bosh for "changing a shot" or "grabbing A key board"....if thats all it takes for you to be pleased with an all-star power forward's performance then go right ahead and enjoy that. whats next, your going to compliment him for catching a pass? or running towards a ball? like ffs your expectations of him are pretty low i must say, it reminds me of a father watching his five year old play and cheering his every little move....

also its just funny, i criticize him for not playing up to the level expected of him, and you defend him because he does "ordinary" little things many players in this series are capable of doing, and most NBAers are expected to do as a minimum to be involved in the league.....

plus, i dont think i would ever hear praise somebody you hate for "changing a shot"....its amazing how you'll praise a player like Bosh for doing that, but u would never praise a guy you hate (ie bargs) for doing the same thing......how pissed would u be if Bargs had a shit game and i threw that 'defense' at you, like cmon really?....

Last edited by forme123; 05-19-2011 at 11:41 PM.
forme123 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 12:23 AM   #132 (permalink)
streets ahead.

Senior Member
 
SomeDPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,780
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Wade and Bron are arguably the 2 best players in the league so their performance is going to be be fairly steady for the most part.

So basically... Bosh = The "X-factor". If he goes off (and Wade and Bron play their usual good games) the Heat win. If he doesn't and no one else steps up, they lose.
The fact that you have to put these assumptions and conditions to make the case that Bosh is the X-factor weaken your argument. The first bolded part is exactly what you would expect out of a multiple and current All-Star, no?

The glaring fact is that you need (again, repeating myself) all three of the big three to play well in order to pull out a win, in general. All three players performances are going to be fairly steady as we've seen in these playoffs. And lastly, an X-factor is a variable that will have the largest impact on a situation. Will the real Heat bench please stand up?..as the bench has been the most inconsistent and variable part of the Heat since the regular season.
SomeDPlease is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 06:57 AM   #133 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,821
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by forme123 View Post
oh its a blast!! must be fun praising Bosh for "changing a shot" or "grabbing A key board"....if thats all it takes for you to be pleased with an all-star power forward's performance then go right ahead and enjoy that. whats next, your going to compliment him for catching a pass? or running towards a ball? like ffs your expectations of him are pretty low i must say, it reminds me of a father watching his five year old play and cheering his every little move....

also its just funny, i criticize him for not playing up to the level expected of him, and you defend him because he does "ordinary" little things many players in this series are capable of doing, and most NBAers are expected to do as a minimum to be involved in the league.....

plus, i dont think i would ever hear praise somebody you hate for "changing a shot"....its amazing how you'll praise a player like Bosh for doing that, but u would never praise a guy you hate (ie bargs) for doing the same thing......how pissed would u be if Bargs had a shit game and i threw that 'defense' at you, like cmon really?....
Bargs has changed a shot? Dude - if he was ever in a position to change a shot, I'd be thrilled.

And if you merely said that Bosh didn't live up to what should be expected of him, then I'd leave it alone, even though I would say that he is filling the role that Miami expects him to fill. In fact you exclaimed that he played badly.

I'm not sure why you discount vital parts of the game as ordinary. I see the game as a team pursuit that stats generally do a poor job of depicting, particularly when it comes to discerning how to get the desired result of winning.

Again - the Bulls scored 10 points in the fourth quarter. Please explain how Bosh's poor play was negated to allow for that outcome.

Bosh had poor games when he was unable to adjust to different expectations. When he shot 1 for 18, it was not all the misses that were as problematic as him taking that many shots to begin with. Once he adjusted to a new role, and different expectations, he proved to be much more valuable to this particular team. That's all I've ever said. But you want to make that out to be over-praising Bosh. Thanks. That would be bullshit, and yeah - it pisses me off.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 11:04 AM   #134 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDPlease View Post
The fact that you have to put these assumptions and conditions to make the case that Bosh is the X-factor weaken your argument. The first bolded part is exactly what you would expect out of a multiple and current All-Star, no?

The glaring fact is that you need (again, repeating myself) all three of the big three to play well in order to pull out a win, in general. All three players performances are going to be fairly steady as we've seen in these playoffs. And lastly, an X-factor is a variable that will have the largest impact on a situation. Will the real Heat bench please stand up?..as the bench has been the most inconsistent and variable part of the Heat since the regular season.
Any bench is ALWAYS going to be an X-factor of sorts, but IMO the Heat have proven that they can win without much from their bench IF Bosh, Wade and Bron are equally involved and hit their numbers.

I'm not sure what you're arguing about.... is it that Bosh is "too good" to be considered an X-factor? Or is it that he's completely irrevelant in the series?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 11:52 AM   #135 (permalink)
streets ahead.

Senior Member
 
SomeDPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,780
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I'm not sure what you're arguing about.... is it that Bosh is "too good" to be considered an X-factor? Or is it that he's completely irrevelant in the series?
And circle gets the square. Recently I've been getting annoyed at words being thrown around carelessly.
SomeDPlease is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 12:43 PM   #136 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDPlease View Post
And circle gets the square. Recently I've been getting annoyed at words being thrown around carelessly.
*shrug* Then that's all you had to say.

While I agree that he IS a good player, there are circumstances in place that are going to limit his effectiveness (at least in the boxscore).

CHI has a slew of tough, mobile bigs who match up against Bosh very well. Then add in the fact that both Wade and Bron handle (and score) the ball the majority of the time and it's not surprising (to me at least) that Bosh's game might waver. That's why I dub him an X-factor. If MIA finds a way to keep him involved (while getting their usual contributions from Wade & Bron) they'll likely win the game.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 01:50 PM   #137 (permalink)
streets ahead.

Senior Member
 
SomeDPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,780
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
*shrug* Then that's all you had to say.
I said this when a few forum goers (yourself included) were discussing the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDPlease View Post
I agree with what you said here. He is key, as are Wade and LeBron, and because you expect him to perform at the level he's been performing at for years, as you do with Wade and LeBron, you can't really call him the X-factor. It's always the guy that you never expect to help out but has shown flashes of excellence that should be considered factor X.
SomeDPlease is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 03:30 PM   #138 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Where/when did you say that?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 03:47 PM   #139 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,575
Representing:
Default

if you click the little blue arrow it will take you to the post.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2011, 03:54 PM   #140 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,821
Representing:
Default

woah - never noticed the little blue arrows before - haha - now I see everything differently.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24