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-   -   Best perimeter defenders? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f6/best-perimeter-defenders-24384.html)

Nites 12-30-2012 08:01 AM

Best perimeter defenders?
 
Post your top 10 list.

1. LeBron (When focused in)
2. Iggy
3. Tony Allen
4. Sefolosha
5. Deng
6. Mbah a Moute
7. Shumpert
8. Bradley
9. Battier
10. D-Wade

Other: Gerald Wallace, Paul George....

ZanTheMan 12-30-2012 08:05 AM

Not going to post a list but MWP and Kahwi Leonard should probably get some consideration as well.

Dario 12-30-2012 08:45 AM

solid list right there.

Dario 12-30-2012 08:45 AM

nic batum is a really good defender too, and rondo

woodchuck 12-30-2012 08:52 AM

1. Tony Allen
2. Bradley
3. Iguodala
4. LeBron
5. Deng
6. Mbah a Moute

These 6 are fairly interchangeable, depends on who you want to defend, do you prefer guys who defend 3-4 positions or specialists. After that, there's a gap IMO.

Thabo and Rondo would probably be 7-8 on my list, but I'd take any top 6 over them.
After that, probably both Brewers (New York and Denver) and Batum in some order.

Ball Don't Lie 12-30-2012 05:15 PM

In going through all of the teams, these are the only guys I think that are worth mentioning in terms of being elite defensive players on the perimeter against positions 1-3:

Avery Bradley
Luol Deng
Paul George
Luc Mbah a Moute
Lebron James
Thabo Sefolosha
Andre Iguodala
Tony Allen
Iman Shumpert

With regard to the other names mentioned:

MWP cant guard quicker players. He succeeds vs the bulkier type SG/SFs, but cant guard quicker guards/forwards, especially ones who run a lot of screen roll. MWP is best in isolations where he can body the offensive player, but if that player makes a quick move and doesnt play around with the ball, they can take MWP off the dribble.

Kawhi was average defensively last year. His team defence is better than his man to man defence. The stats show this and in watching the games you can see this as well. Hes not physical enough and still has to get more experienced before he becomes a lockdown guy. I think most Spurs fans will tell you that SJax is a better perimeter defender currently.

Nic Batum is severely overrated defensively. Hes average at best. He should be a LOT better than he is given his length, quickness, and athletic ability.

DWade coasts on defence in a lot of games, and even in the playoffs he didnt impress me last year. Hes a good defensive player, but he often struggles against quicker players now that hes lost a step.

Battier has lost a big step. Mbah A Moute was taking him off the dribble with ease yesterday. He should no longer be in this discussion.

If I had to rank my top 5 currently, it would be:

1. Iguodala
2. T Allen
3. Mbah A Moute
4. Sefolosha
5. Shumpert

I think in 2 years time that Shumpert will be considered the best perimeter defender in the NBA. He already showed that hes capable of staying in front of, and locking down the likes of Rose and DWade in his rookie season. And he does it without hand checking, and bodying, but instead using his feet, quicks, and smarts to deny the offensive player his next move and force a worse counter move thats easier to recover to.

I dont put Lebron in my top 5 because of the amount of bumping and fouling hes allowed to get away with because hes in bed with the refs. Hes overrated defensively because hes allowed to get away with more. And I think Mbah A Moute guards the 1-4 better than he does anyway. I've seen Luc Richard guard everyone from PGs to Lebron to Bosh and he does an amazing job. He doesnt get the credit he deserves playing in Milwaukee.

Superjudge 12-30-2012 05:54 PM

I put Bargnani in there around 5-6

DonMughal 12-30-2012 06:03 PM

It's funny how much Kobe has dropped off in his defence. He's been all-defence for 12 years.

woodchuck 12-30-2012 06:16 PM

I think Shumpert was overrated last year, which happens to good rookies in New York. He sure has a ton of upside if he gets healthy, but he made so many dumb rookie mistakes, that there's no way I'd put him in top 10 or possibly even top 20 (i haven't thought of top 20, so I don't know for sure). To me, Shumpert is in that 3rd or 4th tier group alongside the likes of Chandler Parsons, James Johnson and Ariza. But he sure has upside.

Also, in general, I think one thing that has to be considered is the roster. If you play on a team with no help defense and no rim protection, it's going to be much harder. Like, I don't think Batum is overrated at all, unless people consider him all-defense or something. He's very good. But his team makes it very hard for him.
The same problem with Kirilenko in Minnesota. I think he's very good, I could see a case for top 10. But there's no rim protection on that roster and shaky defense overall. It adds a degree of difficulty.

I see guys like Kirilenko and Batum in the same group as Paul George. These guys are all great but also flawed. Paul George is far from perfect, he's not the smartest defensive player yet and he fails in two man game a lot, and he gets killed defending some of the big wings who can post him up. But compared to Batum or Kirilenko, it's much easier for George to be successful with Hibbert behind him and a great defensive system/smart players around him.

ZanTheMan 12-30-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie (Post 729228)
Kawhi was average defensively last year.

Kahwi has never been average defensively. He had Pop raving and making Bruce Bowen comparisons from day one. That says something.

You're right though on MWP.

TORaptor4Ever 12-30-2012 09:18 PM

Bradley, Shumpert, Lebron, Allen

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMughal (Post 729235)
It's funny how much Kobe has dropped off in his defence. He's been all-defence for 12 years.

I think that quite a few people would argue that he hasn't deserved nearly that many.

He hasn't been an elite defender for years.

Don Vito 12-30-2012 10:02 PM

Surprised no one said Lowry, he gets my vote.

Toby 12-30-2012 11:12 PM

Got to say Batum, in my highly biased opinion of course.


Nites 12-31-2012 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie (Post 729228)
With regard to the other names mentioned:

MWP cant guard quicker players. He succeeds vs the bulkier type SG/SFs, but cant guard quicker guards/forwards, especially ones who run a lot of screen roll. MWP is best in isolations where he can body the offensive player, but if that player makes a quick move and doesnt play around with the ball, they can take MWP off the dribble.

Kawhi was average defensively last year. His team defence is better than his man to man defence. The stats show this and in watching the games you can see this as well. Hes not physical enough and still has to get more experienced before he becomes a lockdown guy. I think most Spurs fans will tell you that SJax is a better perimeter defender currently.

Nic Batum is severely overrated defensively. Hes average at best. He should be a LOT better than he is given his length, quickness, and athletic ability.

DWade coasts on defence in a lot of games, and even in the playoffs he didnt impress me last year. Hes a good defensive player, but he often struggles against quicker players now that hes lost a step.

Battier has lost a big step. Mbah A Moute was taking him off the dribble with ease yesterday. He should no longer be in this discussion.

Well said

Nites 12-31-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanTheMan (Post 729242)
Kahwi has never been average defensively. He had Pop raving and making Bruce Bowen comparisons from day one. That says something.

You're right though on MWP.

He's above average but he's no where near the top 10 list right now. He will get there eventually though. He mainly just plays passing lanes from what I've seen. Most of the time the Spurs have Danny Green locking up other teams guards.

DonMughal 12-31-2012 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 729270)
Surprised no one said Lowry, he gets my vote.

Not this year so far. Before years there's barely any debate.

TORaptor4Ever 12-31-2012 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 729234)
I put Bargnani in there around 5-6

Uhhh..... when has he EVER locked someone down? :confused2:

Opposing PFs and Cs regularly went for season-highs against him.

He's shown flashes here & there... but let's not get crazy. Besides... aren't we just talking perimeter defenders?

ZanTheMan 12-31-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 729370)
Uhhh..... when has he EVER locked someone down? :confused2:

Opposing PFs and Cs regularly went for season-highs against him.

He's shown flashes here & there... but let's not get crazy. Besides... aren't we just talking perimeter defenders?

:dead:

dfunkie1 12-31-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 729370)
Uhhh..... when has he EVER locked someone down? :confused2:

Opposing PFs and Cs regularly went for season-highs against him.

He's shown flashes here & there... but let's not get crazy. Besides... aren't we just talking perimeter defenders?

find a mirror, look at it and make a goat sound

TORaptor4Ever 12-31-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfunkie1 (Post 729384)
find a mirror, look at it and make a goat sound

You lost me... :confused2:


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