45mil hard cap? Serious hardball - Page 2
Old 06-29-2011, 04:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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$45M hard cap sounds like a starting point, not an end point. considering the average team had a payroll of ~$69 million last season, reaching $45M would be extremely difficult. Yes, a 33% paycut would take players to that spot, but that's an extremely bitter pill to swallow. Of course, getting no pay during a recession will definitely make the owners' case a lot easier to swallow, especially because of NBA players' infamous spending habits:
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I want to look at this rationally, this hard cap may hit the superstars a smidgen but in reality this move is more about the everyday player. For instance, Jordan made an average salary of 3-5 million a year - even took a pay cut - with the Bulls but made 1000% that in endorsements. Superstars will alsways make their money regardless of the outcomes here - which is wise of those players to keep their collective mouths shut.

Also, these players are going to do what? Cry to the fans and media that they don't make enough 'cause they have mouths to feed'? Players are in tough, they'll have to swallow the bitter pill cause there'll always be someone to come take their place and want that 4-10million cheque. Sooner this is over with the better.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I could care less, both sides are greedy bastards, more the players thought I think... I get the owners want to stop losing money, but at least some of them must want it to stop to keep their team where it is for their fans (wishful thinking maybe) but players in sports overall are flat out greedy, you don't deserve 10 mill a year to play a game you supposedly love.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I could care less, both sides are greedy bastards, more the players thought I think... I get the owners want to stop losing money, but at least some of them must want it to stop to keep their team where it is for their fans (wishful thinking maybe) but players in sports overall are flat out greedy, you don't deserve 10 mill a year to play a game you supposedly love.
+1 I agree but players call it a business so if it is, well here you go then, this is what happens in business.

IMO though, owners should make the most monies out of all. The league was created by owners, marketed by owners and there will always be employees(players) to hire. Players may enhance the league but there will always be those regardless of pay. If the league tanks its the owners that go down, the players always get theirs.

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Old 06-29-2011, 06:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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+1 I agree but players call it a business so if it is, well here you go then, this is what happens in business.

IMO though, owners should make the most monies out of all. The league was created by owners, marketed by owners and there will always be employees(players) to hire. Players may enhance the league but there will always be those regardless of pay.
The saddest thing for players in most leagues is that none of them are ever taught how to budget, manage their money, or even think long term... Like what was already posted before about how 60% go broke within 5 years. Really thats sad man, they get paid 100X what most people do and squander it on pointless shit and fuck themselves for a while after.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:05 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The saddest thing for players in most leagues is that none of them are ever taught how to budget, manage their money, or even think long term... Like what was already posted before about how 60% go broke within 5 years. Really thats sad man, they get paid 100X what most people do and squander it on pointless shit and fuck themselves for a while after.
I hate to say it but my first impulse when I read that was to laugh, honestly, I have no sympathy whatsoever. These players have every opportunity to access any service or help or financial management at their disposal yet they choose not to. Anyways, it's all relative, a guy making 6mil a year can go broke as fast as a guy who makes 60k a year. Most kids aren't taught to budget or manage their finances and I know very few 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds who think long term. What these athlete's are doing is making the choices of an adult not that of a child. As adults they have every right to go as broke as the guy making 60k, I'm certainly not going to shed a tear about their poor choices or make excuses for their decisions not to get financial guidance.

This very reason is probably one of the driving forces behind the league wanting to increase the age limit yet again.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:26 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I want to look at this rationally, this hard cap may hit the superstars a smidgen but in reality this move is more about the everyday player. For instance, Jordan made an average salary of 3-5 million a year - even took a pay cut - with the Bulls but made 1000% that in endorsements. Superstars will alsways make their money regardless of the outcomes here - which is wise of those players to keep their collective mouths shut.

Also, these players are going to do what? Cry to the fans and media that they don't make enough 'cause they have mouths to feed'? Players are in tough, they'll have to swallow the bitter pill cause there'll always be someone to come take their place and want that 4-10million cheque. Sooner this is over with the better.
jordan made $60 million in his last 2 seasons with the bulls.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:50 PM   #28 (permalink)
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jordan made $60 million in his last 2 seasons with the bulls.
yep but his formative years he didn't cause he wanted good players signed - thats someone who wanted to win, something that seems lost with today's superstars

edit: of course the rules were different then but it's widely known he took the cut to sign others.

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Old 06-29-2011, 07:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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If their is a 45 mil hard cap, does Euroleague compete with the NBA 4,5 years down the road?


Do the guys making 15 mil a year keep making 15 mil a year while the guys making 2 mil get offered the league minimum.

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Old 06-29-2011, 08:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If their is a 45 mil hard cap, does Euroleague compete with the NBA 4,5 years down the road?


Do the guys making 15 mil a year keep making 15 mil a year while the guys making 2 mil get offered the league minimum.
I agree with Jeffb, most likely this will be the bottom of the cap and it will flex/top out at 63.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:09 PM   #31 (permalink)
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yep but his formative years he didn't cause he wanted good players signed - thats someone who wanted to win, something that seems lost with today's superstars

edit: of course the rules were different then but it's widely known he took the cut to sign others.

Jordan was to cocky to take major paycuts to get better players around him. Maybe he took a slight paycut, I don't recall, but the salary structure has increased quite a bit since the 90s.

Salary cap Average Salary

2004-05 $43.87 million
2003-04 $43.84 million $4,917,000
2002-03 $40.27 million $4,546,000
2001-02 $42.5 million $4,500,000
2000-01 $35.5 million $4,200,000
1999-00 $34.0 million $3,600,000
1998-99 $30.0 million $3,000,000
1997-98 $26.9 million $2,600,000
1996-97 $24.4 million $2,300,000
1995-96 $23.0 million $2,000,000
1994-95 $15.9 million $1,800,000
1993-94 $15.1 million $1,500,000
1992-93 $14.0 million $1,300,000
1991-92 $12.5 million $1,100,000
1990-91 $11.9 million $927,000
1989-90 $9.8 million $717,000
1988-89 $7.2 million $575,000
1987-88 $6.2 million $502,000
1986-87 $4.9 million $431,000
1985-86 $4.2 million $382,000
1984-85 $3.6 million $330,000

4 mil back in his day is 12-16 mil in 2010.

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Old 06-29-2011, 08:17 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Does anyone have a link to the numbers: which 8 teams for ex. are in the green?
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I agree with Jeffb, most likely this will be the bottom of the cap and it will flex/top out at 63.
Likely not.

A cap floor will do nothing for the teams currently suffering from money losses, which is what 20 out of the 30 teams.

You'll still be forced to spend as league revenues continue to go up and you're doing nothing about bridging the gap between the haves and have nots.

A 55 million dollar cap (hard cap) is where I see this ending, with rookie contracts being impacted the most.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:18 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Likely not.

A cap floor will do nothing for the teams currently suffering from money losses, which is what 20 out of the 30 teams.

You'll still be forced to spend as league revenues continue to go up and you're doing nothing about bridging the gap between the haves and have nots.

A 55 million dollar cap (hard cap) is where I see this ending, with rookie contracts being impacted the most.
can't imagine a hard cap without a hard cap floor. even the NHL and NFL have one to ensure teams spend to remain competitive. I don't think parity can be achieved without it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:25 PM   #35 (permalink)
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can't imagine a hard cap without a hard cap floor. even the NHL and NFL have one to ensure teams spend to remain competitive. I don't think parity can be achieved without it.
I was hearing today that one of the problems with the NHL is having a floor. There's as many teams losing money as before.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:37 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I was hearing today that one of the problems with the NHL is having a floor. There's as many teams losing money as before.
The NHL though lacks the TV and other revenue streams the NBA and NFL enjoy. Shouldn't be an issue. Right now the minimum team salary is set at 75% of the salary cap (roughly 43mil) and every team is over that
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:56 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I was hearing today that one of the problems with the NHL is having a floor. There's as many teams losing money as before.
many of those teams are in bad hockey markets, have an aging arena or made bad business decisions i.e. Columbus not getting any parking, naming rights and luxury box revenue among other things
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:06 PM   #38 (permalink)
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If their is a 45 mil hard cap, does Euroleague compete with the NBA 4,5 years down the road?


Do the guys making 15 mil a year keep making 15 mil a year while the guys making 2 mil get offered the league minimum.
if the 45 mill hard cap happens, owners also want a 33% paycut to the players, so im assuming it would balance out quite a bit
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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can't imagine a hard cap without a hard cap floor. even the NHL and NFL have one to ensure teams spend to remain competitive. I don't think parity can be achieved without it.
And that's what's driving problems in the NHL. The NFL is a different monster.

It's not competitive parity, it's parity in salary. Big difference.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:25 PM   #40 (permalink)
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The NHL though lacks the TV and other revenue streams the NBA and NFL enjoy. Shouldn't be an issue. Right now the minimum team salary is set at 75% of the salary cap (roughly 43mil) and every team is over that
Even the 2 billion the NHL shares, isn't enough.

When you have a team like the Florida Panthers at 26 million in salaries and needing to get up to whatever it is right now to stay competitive, you have a big problem.

The NBA has a big issue. Some teams can't even afford the 43 million in salaries. Compounding the issue is that some markets have been devastated due to the recession. Also, the lack of corporate dollars in some markets has hurt.

The system the NBA has right now worked, except it had no teeth. The dollar for dollar luxury tax didn't hurt teams enough. Increase the luxury tax to amounts owners wouldn't spend to and you create an artificial cap.
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