Take Five - Page 2
Old 05-24-2011, 09:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I hope the day comes soon where we can grab a legit center. A defensive one.

Bargnani, Ajinca, Amir, Davis, Reggie, Dorsey are not centers. And I don't know too much about Bismack, but I still doubt he'll be an everyday center in this league.
In one of BC's end-of-season interviews he talked about how he thinks people are too hung up on positional numbers, and should instead think in terms of bigs, guards, and forwards. He talked about some Utah game where there wasn't an obvious center. And I kind of thought that the Ibaka/Collison pairing by OKC was another example. Still, it would be fun to trade three of those Raptors and get Nene to be the center. Trade for Nene and Shane Battier is my pie-in-the-sky trade dream.

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Old 05-24-2011, 09:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beans View Post
In one of BC's end-of-season interviews he talked about how he thinks people are too hung up on positional numbers, and should instead think in terms of bigs, guards, and forwards. He talked about some Utah game where there wasn't an obvious center. And I kind of thought that the Ibaka/Collison pairing by OKC was another example. Still, it would be fun to trade three of those Raptors and get Nene to be the center. Trade for Nene and Shane Battier is my pie-in-the-sky trade dream.
I like the idea of Nene but he has an 11.6 player option for next year so he can't be traded unless he wanted to come here lmao which I don't. I can honestly see Nene taking the MLE from Miami for a year or two to win a title.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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In one of BC's end-of-season interviews he talked about how he thinks people are too hung up on positional numbers, and should instead think in terms of bigs, guards, and forwards. He talked about some Utah game where there wasn't an obvious center. And I kind of thought that the Ibaka/Collison pairing by OKC was another example. Still, it would be fun to trade three of those Raptors and get Nene to be the center. Trade for Nene and Shane Battier is my pie-in-the-sky trade dream.
It's kind of true that the position doesn't matter. What does matter is the match ups.

Categorizing players as guards, forwards, bigs, is just another way of falsely assigning a position to a player, it just disguises that in slightly more abstract terms.

The reason position does matter is that the guy you have starting at a certain position should be able to guard the opposition starting at the same position most of the time.

A guy that doesn't defend doesn't have a position, in my opinion. Not as a PF, C, big or forward.

Offense can come from any position in any manner, as long as it's efficient. If your C likes to shoot 3s, great! As long as he's doing it efficiently, it works.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I like... right now....

1. kanter
2. Irving
3. Jonas
4. Williams
4. Thompson
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Why would he be passed up? Unless something horribly goes wrong during the workouts, interviews etc., he is a lock for 1-2.
i can see it happening for a couple of reasons

1) tweeners don't have the best history of succeeding in the league.

2) williams is saying three and scouts are now starting to say 4 again

3) he comes across as an arrogant ass. i don't know if the comments that made teams were weary in the interviews came from him, but i'm gonna take a wild guess and say it was from him. just my suspicions.
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Old 05-25-2011, 12:50 AM   #26 (permalink)
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i can see it happening for a couple of reasons

1) tweeners don't have the best history of succeeding in the league.

2) williams is saying three and scouts are now starting to say 4 again

3) he comes across as an arrogant ass. i don't know if the comments that made teams were weary in the interviews came from him, but i'm gonna take a wild guess and say it was from him. just my suspicions.
Also,

4) Minnesota holds the second pick and already has too many players at the 3 and 4 spots, including Beasley and Anthony Randolph, who are both, arguably, tweeners.

5) Kanter is looking more and more intriguing. His legs held up really well on the treadmill test, which may alleviate some concerns regarding his conditioning and knees. Even though he hasn't been playing competitive ball, he clearly has been working his ass off. That's a good sign.

6) Minnesota does not have a Center of the future. This makes #4 and #5 more relevant.

If I was betting on it, I still might say Williams goes in the top 2, since Minny might trade the pick. But, the point is, Williams is not a lock. At least in my opinion. I agree with Filthy.
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm starting to think that Kanter and Valanciunas will both be gone by #5...
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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...maybe Utah's pick could be had in a trade. I could see the Raptors trading Knight at 5 for Kanter at 3.

If Irving and Derrick Williams are off the board, I think that Utah would want to trade.

They don't want another big. (Millsap, Jefferson, Favors, Okur is enough)

There's no way Cleveland takes Knight/Walker at 4 after drafting Irving at 1. So, Utah would be able to get their pick of guards at 5.

Anything gained in a trade with the Raptors is just a bonus if they really wanted to draft a guard anyways.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:08 AM   #29 (permalink)
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You realize that Ajinca, Amir, Davis and Reggie are PF's for the Raps? I agree about Bargs and Dorsey though
I don't understand. They all are. They all have played the center position this year and they are either outsized or are glued to the perimeter.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:13 AM   #30 (permalink)
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In one of BC's end-of-season interviews he talked about how he thinks people are too hung up on positional numbers, and should instead think in terms of bigs, guards, and forwards. He talked about some Utah game where there wasn't an obvious center. And I kind of thought that the Ibaka/Collison pairing by OKC was another example. Still, it would be fun to trade three of those Raptors and get Nene to be the center. Trade for Nene and Shane Battier is my pie-in-the-sky trade dream.
And how many games has Utah won this year?

OKC was a good team when they only had Ibaka, Collision and a decent center in Kristic. Now they are a great team since they aquired Perkins, a real center.

Look at all the contending teams man, they all have legitimate centers. I just want for once a good defensive center that will always be labeled a center, and not one that is in between.

I still think it's a big deal.
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Old 05-25-2011, 06:14 PM   #31 (permalink)
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There is no chance the order is going down that way.
not ranking on draft order

ranking on best player available 4 or 5 years from now

I believe Irving is over rated, I got caught to with him storming NCAA to begin the year

I believe Kanter to be a beast, a future multiple allstar, he has to much drive not to be

Knight does everything Irving can, but the difference doesnt' have a history of injuries

Vesely is going to be a defensive beast, and a interesting player, doesn't fit the prototype of a european player

its quite possible Raptors end up with the best player at 5 in the draft
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Old 05-25-2011, 08:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Look at all the contending teams man, they all have legitimate centers. I just want for once a good defensive center that will always be labeled a center, and not one that is in between.

I still think it's a big deal.
Yup, I agree. Kanter, Valanciunas, or a trade. It's still possible. And I hope Brian has the same mindset and is just being a salesman when he says stuff like that. I fear that Biyombo will turn into a "multi-year project" bust, but maybe it's equally as likely that he'll play well, and become the new fan favorite.

Watching Westbrook and Kidd rebound sure makes me wish that the Raptors had a better team will to rebound. Derozan, Davis, Bargs, JJ, Jerryd, etc - everyone should try to get rebounds. Sometimes I think Reggie hurts the team, in that he thinks rebounds are "his job".

I hope Davis makes it a goal to get 35 double-doubles next year.

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Old 05-25-2011, 11:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Yup, I agree. Kanter, Valanciunas, or a trade. It's still possible. And I hope Brian has the same mindset and is just being a salesman when he says stuff like that. I fear that Biyombo will turn into a "multi-year project" bust, but maybe it's equally as likely that he'll play well, and become the new fan favorite.

Watching Westbrook and Kidd rebound sure makes me wish that the Raptors had a better team will to rebound. Derozan, Davis, Bargs, JJ, Jerryd, etc - everyone should try to get rebounds. Sometimes I think Reggie hurts the team, in that he thinks rebounds are "his job".

I hope Davis makes it a goal to get 35 double-doubles next year.
Jones V is more of a project and risk than Bismack, he's not very explosive, he's skinny, doesn't have good footwork, he's not great at offense and he's not that great at D either.

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Old 05-26-2011, 01:28 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Jones V is more of a project and risk than Bismack, he's not very explosive, he's skinny, doesn't have good footwork, he's not great at offense and he's not that great at D either.
And at the same time, this is what I read scouts saying about Bismack: "Offensive game is as raw as it gets and a long ways from being effective at the NBA level ... Basic fundamentals and technique are way behind, and may never catch up ". Doesn't sound like a number #5 pick.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:09 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Maybe Bismack is like a more athletic Reggie?
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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i don't exactly understand the question.

it's about the top 5 pick in the draft
or about the top 5 prospect 5th pick possible?

for the 4st first poick of this draft i see : no order :
irving - williams - knight - kanter

so as the possible 5# i can see toronto land one of this 5 guys :
1. walker (not so legit in our roster since he is a poor bayless)
2. Jonas (not a ready-to-go player yet, need at least 2 or 3 years to come through, too long for us to wait in our rebuild process along with DD, bayless, amir and maybe ED - not sure ED would stay, more likeky a good trade asset in a package with caldy)
3. Biyumbo : a 4/5 who seems to have a speed evolution in his career so far, and seems to have a big upside left.
more lekely a wise candidate.
4. leonard : No so ready, as someone here said already, seems to be a JJ-like. so why bring him here, when we already have a similar player at the 3 spot.
5. Thompson : even if i'm not a canadian, i would love to see a candian young talent bring in toronto. he has the same ability as defender than Davis, and want to be here. that make a big difference for the future.


so about our 5# pick, i would take bismack or thompson, possibly buy the 6 or 7# pick to bring the second here as well.
i know some you don't see the point of trading barg to bring here the 6#+ booker, but at least that give us two draft big men (BB +TT) and a young center, who has a solid body, and some skills.


bayless/JC
DD/barbo
JJ/kleiza
amir/davis/TT
Booker/BB/alabi

we will only need a solid SF backup, and a third pg to be ready.
and then J.triano make sense to be our HC for one more year. and see what he can do with more defensive big men, even if there ae young. they are less liability

Last edited by Bankiz; 05-26-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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