Rick Kamla - Raptors should pick Kemba Walker - Page 2
Old 06-20-2011, 11:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Great analysis on Kemba Walker by Jonathan Givony from DraftExpress today. Here's a little excerpt, but the interview is very informative:

"This is a guy in high school who couldn't shoot, who couldn't score, he was just a passer. He was a back-up on his own high school team, he wasn't a highly regarded prospect by any means. And by his sheer work ethic, he improved his shooting and his scoring ability to the point now that people think he's too much of a scorer! "


From DraftExpress.com DraftExpress: Jonathan Givony Interview with RaptorsHQ
DraftExpress - NBA Draft, NCAA/International Basketball Website.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
Wow I am sick when people say they don't like shoot first PG's. Just face it, the league is driven by combo guards.. plus getting a guy like Jose wouldn't help otherwise we would just keep Jose. Knight is not more of an all-round PG, he is in fact a shoot first PG. smh
i am coming round to the idea of shoot first PGs, but i honestly saw games last year where rose badly hurt the bulls, and as for westbrook, man, he was a terrible chucker in some games and didn't get durant going which has to be the most important thing for OKC to achieve!?

your point of why not keep jose if that's the type we need. don't think you understood me. Jose's style and ability but WITHOUT the gone stale(ness) that jose now has.

rondo had his struggles this year but his all round play is more valuable at the point for me. why not play rose at sg!?

final point; if you like combo guards at the point why not play bayless?
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
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All I know is that during the tournament all the analysts were raving about Walker. Barkley said he was the best PG in the NCAA a few times. I trust these guys, former players who know the score. If Toronto wants a PG they are in great shape really, Walker, Irving, and Knight are al pretty good. THAT is why I picked Kanter first in our Mock draft for Clevelend.... I knew there would be, without a doubt, a good PG left at the 4 spot, I took the best big at 1.

Toronto will get a decent play in this draft, but I thin too much is being worried about here..... Toronto's biggest issue is getting the guys they have already to play to their potential.
last point is a very valid one. imagine if we had 2nd pick, there would be almost no draft talk on here! i'm not (that) worried about the draft, but getting 5th has certainly opened the debate!
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I agree, pass first PG's are overated. Jose is a pass first Pg and where has that got us? I'd much rather have a PG who's a good shooter that actually has the balls to ya know.......actually shoot. Now I'm not saying I want a PG to not be a facilitator, but a PG can do both.If you have a good shooting PG that constantly defers to a player like say Bargnani and doesn't use one of his biggest strengths it won't do this team any good.
i disagree with that... pass first PG's are the best PGs in the game, and are by far the hardest commodity to acquire, because they are so rare.
the best point guards to ever play the game were pass-first pg's.... take nash, stockton, kidd, magic - all pass first pg's.

calderon's style is more of a pass first type, but thats like saying i dont want a shoot first pg because what has randy foye done in his career...
give me a 'good' pass first pg anyday.
but beggars cant be choosers and right now i'll take any pg that can score, distribute, defend.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:06 AM   #25 (permalink)
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you had me right up until i read this
man, think i made it pretty clear that i meant jose IF he was playing to his fullest!? was basically saying i like jose's style, but i agree last season was noty great and we should consider trading.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:08 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jackson Filth View Post
shoot-first and combo guard labels are given out way too easy. if my point guard is taking 50 smart shots a game, then he should take 50 shots a game. people need to think less about assist and shot totals and more about the flow of the game and how their decisions are effected by it.
great point, but for me rose and west cost their team in quite a few games i saw last year. less so rose, he is a great player but don't like his style as a PG. personal opinion.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:09 AM   #27 (permalink)
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i disagree with that... pass first PG's are the best PGs in the game, and are by far the hardest commodity to acquire, because they are so rare.
the best point guards to ever play the game were pass-first pg's.... take nash, stockton, kidd, magic - all pass first pg's.

calderon's style is more of a pass first type, but thats like saying i dont want a shoot first pg because what has randy foye done in his career...
give me a 'good' pass first pg anyday.
but beggars cant be choosers and right now i'll take any pg that can score, distribute, defend.
The best PG's in the game that can shoot, do. Period. They just know when to shoot and when to pass. CP3 scores a lot, Derek Rose is Chicago's main scorer, D-Will is a volume shooter. Rondo can't shoot so he's more of a passer. But the best PG's in the NBA do both if they can. And they know when to be a facilitator (when players are hitting shots) and when to look for his.

Last edited by jeffb; 06-20-2011 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:22 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LKeet6 View Post
personally i'm not keen on kemba. I don't like shoot first PGs, although his good D would certainly be a bonus. My ideal PG is jose calderon, but getting the numbers jose should be getting. I agree with the few others on here who say that jose's time is just up here and he needs a fresh challenge.

i understand knight is more of the all-round PG with a supposedly better upside than walker?

to be honest although i said i don't like shoot first PGs i think we can't be fussy, we should let bayless play that role hoping he will get points, and think about strengthening more urgent areas.

maybe judge how desperate other teams are for certain players and trade down on our pick (for something good!) and then take a chance on an "intangible" from the draft.
I find it kinda funny when I see this. Have you checked beyond this past years numbers? Kemba was a facilitator and was questioned if he could shoot. This year his team needed him to shoot now people question if he can be a facilitator. It really is kinda humerous. Kemba has 3 years under his belt, I like what he's bringing, adjusts to the flow and listens to the coaches for what the team needs - I like the sounds of that. I'm a Kemba fan so I hope we take him - and hopefully we can scoop another pick along the way.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I find it kinda funny when I see this. Have you checked beyond this past years numbers? Kemba was a facilitator and was questioned if he could shoot. This year his team needed him to shoot now people question if he can be a facilitator. It really is kinda humerous. Kemba has 3 years under his belt, I like what he's bringing, adjusts to the flow and listens to the coaches for what the team needs - I like the sounds of that. I'm a Kemba fan so I hope we take him - and hopefully we can scoop another pick along the way.
yep, fair points there. I come on here to share points, form opinions and i'm not too certain on this one. hence i said "not too keen," not a comment like some others "he's shit," etc.

i'm firm on the pass first thing, that's just my opinion, how i would like the raps to play. personally i don't see what extra we're getting with walker as opposed to just swapping bayless and jose as starters. If kemba can adjust like you say, that would be a bit different.

But for me, again, i would try and get a good trade down involving Bargs for a good scorer and maybe a decent vet C and then use the lower pick for an "intagible" type player and hope for the best. Logical given "hoping for the best" is pretty much the story of the draft?
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #30 (permalink)
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yep, fair points there. I come on here to share points, form opinions and i'm not too certain on this one. hence i said "not too keen," not a comment like some others "he's shit," etc.

i'm firm on the pass first thing, that's just my opinion, how i would like the raps to play. personally i don't see what extra we're getting with walker as opposed to just swapping bayless and jose as starters. If kemba can adjust like you say, that would be a bit different.

But for me, again, i would try and get a good trade down involving Bargs for a good scorer and maybe a decent vet C and then use the lower pick for an "intagible" type player and hope for the best. Logical given "hoping for the best" is pretty much the story of the draft?
Well honestly I can't say he will adjust, no one can but looking at his body of work over the last few years it would seem to indicate that he has the skill set to adjust and the work ethic to make it happen.

And hopefully you didn't take what I stated as an attack on your opinion, I just question sometimes that the whole picture of a player isn't taken into account and some will just look at the past year - the idea of 'what have you done for me lately' adage.

IMO Jose is past the point of growing with a team and needs a start on a team with vets and Bayless has potential absolutely. That still means we need another pg.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:49 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Well honestly I can't say he will adjust, no one can but looking at his body of work over the last few years it would seem to indicate that he has the skill set to adjust and the work ethic to make it happen.

And hopefully you didn't take what I stated as an attack on your opinion, I just question sometimes that the whole picture of a player isn't taken into account and some will just look at the past year - the idea of 'what have you done for me lately' adage.

IMO Jose is past the point of growing with a team and needs a start on a team with vets and Bayless has potential absolutely. That still means we need another pg.
no mate, didn't take it wrong, i'm thick skinned.

it's an interesting debate. personally i would follow through with my trade plan. we're definitely agreed on jose being past his best for us but i would still start bayless, i was getting so pissed with bayless as an impact player! so a vet pg to back-up bayless would be the way i'd go. personally, that makes jose still viable for me. certianly wouldn't hurt us to shed his contract tho!
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:58 AM   #32 (permalink)
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great point, but for me rose and west cost their team in quite a few games i saw last year. less so rose, he is a great player but don't like his style as a PG. personal opinion.
Rose is great, I would love to have him. The Bulls would be so much better if they had an above average SG - take the scoring pressure off of Rose so he can facilitate more. I also like that Rose has improved his shot so much in a year.

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Old 06-20-2011, 01:47 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Walker will be a pass first PG in the NBA. I don't doubt that.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:09 PM   #34 (permalink)
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i disagree with that... pass first PG's are the best PGs in the game, and are by far the hardest commodity to acquire, because they are so rare.
the best point guards to ever play the game were pass-first pg's.... take nash, stockton, kidd, magic - all pass first pg's.

calderon's style is more of a pass first type, but thats like saying i dont want a shoot first pg because what has randy foye done in his career...
give me a 'good' pass first pg anyday.
but beggars cant be choosers and right now i'll take any pg that can score, distribute, defend.
the point guard position has evolved over the years. the pass first point guard no longer exists. nash doesn't pass first. he never has. he looks for the highest percentage shot, whether it be him or hakim taking it, the shot is going to be taking. players like chris paul, deron williams, chauncey billups, dre miller, ray felton so on and so on, they're not shoot first or pass first point guards, they're the modern day point guards who play a bigger part in the offence past setting it up. the days of al iverson, steph marbs and steve francis running the point are done.
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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it would be interesting to have a backcourt of bayless and walker
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:29 AM   #37 (permalink)
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We should draft him for all the reasons mentioned and also because he just beat Jimmy Fallon (on his show) in a shooting game.

They shot
-a pizza
-a mannequin head
-a dog's bowl
-a slurpee
-a lamp

Kemba fell behind 1-0 after Jimmy hit the pizza, but Kemba tied it up with the dog's bowl (including Husky reference), and hit the money ball (or money-lamp). True gamer!
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:32 AM   #38 (permalink)
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it doesn't matter who we draft there is no impact player in this draft

we should draft on need

positions of need 5,3,1

in order of importance in my opinion, jose and bayless can do the job so i would prefer to draft a center first or a swingman


obviously we need to swing a deal with minnesota because the best fit for the Raptors is at 2, in derrick williams,

center kanter, biyombo, valcuinus in that order

williams,vesely at the 3



a tade like this to minny would be nice, jose and the 5th for flynn and the 2nd pick, james johnson
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