Zach Randolph: "I'm better than Chris Bosh" - Page 12
Old 05-03-2011, 06:56 AM   #221 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
Is Randolph just the flavour of the month?
In my opinion, the talk about him being "the best power forward" is going too far. In that sense, I agree with you. But he's still a very talented player. He's always had talent. He was just a huge douche for about 3 years.

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The dude is still a pretty dumb player out there.
Well, I guess you and I disagree about what we've been watching. The smartest player? Nope. But he's come a long way since his days with the Knicks. He's made some smart plays when I watch. I will say that some of his shots make me think "oh, fuck, Zach, what are you doing!" But I could say the same thing about Dirk Notwizki. Zach in Memphis takes a spot up 3 in balance. A reasonable play, in moderation, given that he can make it. Zach in New York dribbles around like a goof and then pulls up for an off balance 3. Not so smart.

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He's just found himself in a good situation right now but if you go back (last year, a few years ago?) when he was with the Clippers he looked done to me as a mid-tier player.
He wasn't with the Clippers last year. He's been playing well for Memphis for two full seasons before these playoffs began.

Why did you think Randolph was done when with the Clippers? His attitude? I thought he was a douche too. But he was a good buy low candidate for a team desperate to improve. The thing I thought was scary was Heisley's idea to bring him in while Iverson was there. That seemed like way too much attitude, and not enough ball, for Hollins to have to coach.

Anyways, if you're talking about something other than his attitude, I don't know what to say. I don't know why you'd think he was done if you're talking about his production. Zach dropped 21/9 in his fifty or so games with the Clipps and he was still in his mid-20s. The Clipps picked Griffin in the draft the next summer. I think that was part of the reason they gave Randolph away for almost nothing.


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maybe he has turkoglu-itis. he's only effective in the perfect situation.
I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean by "effective". If you're just making a joke, then excuse my serious response. It's just that Zach put up double-double numbers with 3 seperate teams, so he isn't really like Turkoglu, at least in terms of production. In fact, Zach put up 20+/10+ on a .500 team in Portland.

I definitely think the environment in Memphis is better for squashing douche-itis. Hollins didn't take crap from Iverson. I don't want to excuse any of Randolph's past transgressions, but if someone were going to become a douche, it might be more likely to happen with the "Jail Blazers" and a Zeke run Knicks squad.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:48 AM   #222 (permalink)
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Damn right I am. The EC was the weakest that it's ever been.

Bosh struggled in the playoffs because he was doubled and tripled at every opportunity.... NJ and ORL knew that no one else could beat them if they shut him down. So they did just that.

MEM is so much better than we were back then defensively that it's not even close. Guys like Gasol, Battier and Allen make all the difference in the world there. garbo and Parker were decent enough on that end but they weren't ever going to make an all-defensive team.

i'm not against ur opinion that this years memphis team is better than that years raps team that was the 3rd seed. but once again you failed to acknowledge that i pointed out, you have to take into account who they faced in the playoffs. SA is a way better team then NJ.
which matchup had the bigger differential (not talking seeding-wise)? SA-MEM or TO-NJ?

Memphis was underdogs in their matchup and toronto, if not favorites, certainly wasn't an underdog.

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Bosh never had a REAL C to play beside like Gasol.

He also never had a legit #2 option OR a team that cared about playing consistent, hard-nosed D (and hitting the glass).

Makes a difference.
damn! the raps got the 3rd seed despite all of that??? they must be damn overrated!
then imagine how much a 6th seeded nets team that year must have sucked!
but we still lost!

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Old 05-03-2011, 12:45 PM   #223 (permalink)
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i'm not against ur opinion that this years memphis team is better than that years raps team that was the 3rd seed. but once again you failed to acknowledge that i pointed out, you have to take into account who they faced in the playoffs. SA is a way better team then NJ.
which matchup had the bigger differential (not talking seeding-wise)? SA-MEM or TO-NJ?

Memphis was underdogs in their matchup and toronto, if not favorites, certainly wasn't an underdog.



damn! the raps got the 3rd seed despite all of that??? they must be damn overrated!
then imagine how much a 6th seeded nets team that year must have sucked!
but we still lost!
You're over-rating the Spurs based on their regular season record, and under-rating the Nets based on their regular season record.

The Spurs were banged up, old, and had to rely on Matt Bonner as a defender more than they had all year. If Bosh could have gone up against Matt Bonner and been a part of a well-balanced defensive outfit that Memphis represents, there wouldn't have been much of a series for NJ.

The regular season and the playoffs are very different animals. First of all - there are no shit teams to feast on. And then the teams remaining play at a different level and with entirely different gameplans. The Raptors had a very nice regular season team, and the drop-off actually started before the playoffs even began. They were more comparable to the Spurs than they were to the Grizzlies when they came into the first round.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:02 PM   #224 (permalink)
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You're over-rating the Spurs based on their regular season record, and under-rating the Nets based on their regular season record.

The Spurs were banged up, old, and had to rely on Matt Bonner as a defender more than they had all year. If Bosh could have gone up against Matt Bonner and been a part of a well-balanced defensive outfit that Memphis represents, there wouldn't have been much of a series for NJ.

The regular season and the playoffs are very different animals. First of all - there are no shit teams to feast on. And then the teams remaining play at a different level and with entirely different gameplans. The Raptors had a very nice regular season team, and the drop-off actually started before the playoffs even began. They were more comparable to the Spurs than they were to the Grizzlies when they came into the first round.
even with all the spurs question marks they were still the favorites.
how many people had memphis beating SA? how many people had SA going deep into the playoffs? and then now that memphis is in the 2nd round, they're giving OKC a run for their money with a LEGIT shot at advancing. OKC was playing some great basketball before this series, so whats the excuse now?
and you say i'm underrating the Nets. so then lets say there so no clear cut favorites then between raps and nets. Bosh still failed to advance. is that unreasonable in a series that could have gone either way?
point is, randolph LED his team into the second round (possibly more). whereas Bosh couldn't, on a lesser team but against a lesser opponent.

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Old 05-03-2011, 01:14 PM   #225 (permalink)
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You're over-rating the Spurs based on their regular season record, and under-rating the Nets based on their regular season record.

The Spurs were banged up, old, and had to rely on Matt Bonner as a defender more than they had all year. If Bosh could have gone up against Matt Bonner and been a part of a well-balanced defensive outfit that Memphis represents, there wouldn't have been much of a series for NJ.

The regular season and the playoffs are very different animals. First of all - there are no shit teams to feast on. And then the teams remaining play at a different level and with entirely different gameplans. The Raptors had a very nice regular season team, and the drop-off actually started before the playoffs even began. They were more comparable to the Spurs than they were to the Grizzlies when they came into the first round.
you're under rating the spurs big time here LX...
Spurs were a favorite to face off vs LA in the western Conf finals this post season... regardless of their injuries and age, the spurs were on everyone's list to make it as far as the Conf finals. from experience, to the depth, to having the best coach in the business, the spurs were huge favorites over the grizzlies.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:18 PM   #226 (permalink)
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even with all the spurs question marks they were still the favorites.
how many people had memphis beating SA? how many people had SA going deep into the playoffs? and then now that memphis is in the 2nd round, they're giving OKC a run for their money with a LEGIT shot at advancing. OKC was playing some great basketball before this series, so whats the excuse now?
and you say i'm underrating the Nets. so then lets say there so no clear cut favorites then between raps and nets. Bosh still failed to advance. is that unreasonable in a series that could have gone either way?
point is, randolph LED his team into the second round (possibly more). whereas Bosh couldn't, on a lesser team but against a lesser opponent.
A lot of people thought Memphis would give the Spurs all they could handle. They ended up being less able to handle anything than they could all season long. Many people thought that Memphis was trying to maintain the 8 seed just to get the Spurs in a matchup.

As for Z-Bo leading his team? I don't think he had that burden so much. That team has a lot of capable leaders. I think Gasol has been a huge part of making that team what it is - including Randolph. I think Battier is an incredibly important addition. And if there has been one guy that has lead that team, it's Tony Allen. A very different situation from a Raptors team that had no playoff experience outside of TJ.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:28 PM   #227 (permalink)
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you're under rating the spurs big time here LX...
Spurs were a favorite to face off vs LA in the western Conf finals this post season... regardless of their injuries and age, the spurs were on everyone's list to make it as far as the Conf finals. from experience, to the depth, to having the best coach in the business, the spurs were huge favorites over the grizzlies.
They were winning with offense and giving up a lot more points defensively. I liked them for their experience and just how well they could execute. But once you take a healthy Manu out of the picture that all goes away.

The Spurs started to fall apart throughout the second half of the season, while the Grizzlies continued to gel over that time. The Spurs frontcourt never got settled. Blair and Splitter were inconsistent as hell and never fell into place in the rotation, while McDyess showed signs of slowing down throughout. They still had enough to hang onto the top spot after a blistering start when they all had fresh legs and defensive mediocrity didn't matter as much. But once defending mattered, they didn't have a rotation they could count on. It simply never fell into place.

That's not under-rating anything. Popovich will tell you himself - that's a basic ingredient for playoff basketball. It's the same thing that cost the Mavericks not long ago. And it's what OKC is suffering from over what they showed us last season.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:29 PM   #228 (permalink)
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A lot of people thought Memphis would give the Spurs all they could handle. They ended up being less able to handle anything than they could all season long. Many people thought that Memphis was trying to maintain the 8 seed just to get the Spurs in a matchup.

As for Z-Bo leading his team? I don't think he had that burden so much. That team has a lot of capable leaders. I think Gasol has been a huge part of making that team what it is - including Randolph. I think Battier is an incredibly important addition. And if there has been one guy that has lead that team, it's Tony Allen. A very different situation from a Raptors team that had no playoff experience outside of TJ.
how much of that was a result of what ended up happening and what we saw in the first round? its one thing to say that or you can look at it as memphis STEPPED UP big time. when ur the leader of ur team, you get most of the credit when you win and most of the blame when you lose. which is fair. and how much of the Raptors being overrated that year is a reflection on bosh?
i would say someone who is underrated is a player who isn't flashy or his stats don't jump out at you but he WINS. whereas an overrated player is someone who has nice stats but can't win when he is counted on.
anyways, enough of this back and forth.
who had the tougher situation? memphis did simple as that.
who came out on top?

WC PLAYOFFS; RD 1:MEMPHIS WINS--(1) SAS SPURS - 2 VS (8) MEM GRIZZLIES - 3
almost everyone was picking SA

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Old 05-03-2011, 01:37 PM   #229 (permalink)
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how much of that was a result of what ended up happening and what we saw in the first round? its one thing to say that or you can look at it as memphis STEPPED UP big time. when ur the leader of ur team, you get most of the credit when you win and most of the blame when you lose. which is fair. and how much of the Raptors being overrated that year is a reflection on bosh?
i would say someone who is underrated is a player who isn't flashy or his stats don't jump out at you but he WINS. whereas an overrated player is someone who has nice stats but can't win when he is counted on.
anyways, enough of this back and forth.
who had the tougher situation? memphis did simple as that.
who came out on top?
Memphis did? I think that's not settled in any way shape or form. Anytime you have guys like Battier, Allen, and Gasol, and you have Mayo coming off the bench, and a well-balanced, cohesive, and talented team from 1-12 to surround a 20 and 10 guy, it's hard to say you have such a tough situation. I heard Tony Allen talking well before the playoffs started. He liked their situation - a lot. The Raptors, outside of TJ, and Rasho, said they had no idea what to expect - and they were right. They had a Joey Graham starting. They had Juan Dixon coming off the bench - didn't they? That's a fucking tough situation.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:47 PM   #230 (permalink)
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Memphis did? I think that's not settled in any way shape or form. Anytime you have guys like Battier, Allen, and Gasol, and you have Mayo coming off the bench, and a well-balanced, cohesive, and talented team from 1-12 to surround a 20 and 10 guy, it's hard to say you have such a tough situation. I heard Tony Allen talking well before the playoffs started. He liked their situation - a lot. The Raptors, outside of TJ, and Rasho, said they had no idea what to expect - and they were right. They had a Joey Graham starting. They had Juan Dixon coming off the bench - didn't they? That's a fucking tough situation.
i agree that memphis is a better team, but i believe the differential between SA-MEM is more than TO-NJ. and thats were we disagree on and thats fine.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:53 PM   #231 (permalink)
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you're under rating the spurs big time here LX...
Spurs were a favorite to face off vs LA in the western Conf finals this post season... regardless of their injuries and age, the spurs were on everyone's list to make it as far as the Conf finals. from experience, to the depth, to having the best coach in the business, the spurs were huge favorites over the grizzlies.
I had OKC and LA actually, both are better teams than the Spurs imo.
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:23 PM   #232 (permalink)
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RT @Justingiannetto: @CharlesOakley34 Who's better than Zach Randolph right now?

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RT @RichBouchner: @CharlesOakley34 who do u think is the best PF now? How about the best 15 yrs ago?

Zach Randolph now. 15 yrs ago Karl Malone
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:06 PM   #233 (permalink)
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even with all the spurs question marks they were still the favorites.
how many people had memphis beating SA? how many people had SA going deep into the playoffs? and then now that memphis is in the 2nd round, they're giving OKC a run for their money with a LEGIT shot at advancing. OKC was playing some great basketball before this series, so whats the excuse now?
and you say i'm underrating the Nets. so then lets say there so no clear cut favorites then between raps and nets. Bosh still failed to advance. is that unreasonable in a series that could have gone either way?
point is, randolph LED his team into the second round (possibly more). whereas Bosh couldn't, on a lesser team but against a lesser opponent.
Just out of curiosity... what are your feelings about Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard?

Anthony couldn't even lead his team to single win in the post-season.....

... while D12's team got upset by the Hawks (a team that they trashed in the playoffs last year).

Do you think that these guys are just "overrated"? Or is there more to it than that?
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:20 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Just out of curiosity... what are your feelings about Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard?

Anthony couldn't even lead his team to single win in the post-season.....

... while D12's team got upset by the Hawks (a team that they trashed in the playoffs last year).

Do you think that these guys are just "overrated"? Or is there more to it than that?
cool...i shut you down on the original argument of this thread and now you just want to nit pick for the sake of arguing on something that is irrelevant.

and yes, there are people that think both carmelo and howard are overrated. those view are not uncommon. my personal opinion is that carmelo is and howard isn't because melo is essentially a very good one dimensional player whereas howard has an impact on offense and defense and he has had playoff success prior to this year (ex: losing to lakers in the finals one year where they weren't the favorites)
so whats ur point? did that answer your question?

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Old 05-03-2011, 03:39 PM   #235 (permalink)
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cool...i shut you down on the original argument of this thread and now you just want to nit pick for the sake of arguing on something that is irrelevant.

and yes, there are people that think both carmelo and howard are overrated. those view are not uncommon. my personal opinion is that carmelo is and howard isn't because melo is essentially a very good one dimensional player whereas howard has an impact on offense and defense and he has had playoff success prior to this year (ex: losing to lakers in the finals one year where they weren't the favorites)
so whats ur point? did that answer your question?
Lol.... no... you really didn't.

Why do you think that ORL went to the finals that year? Was it because of Howard? Did he play harder/better than he did this post-season?

Or did the Magic have more success then because Howard supporting cast played much better?

You're buying into the idea that the NBA has been pushing since the days of MJ... that ONE player can carry a team to a title.

That's a false assumption. Basketball is a TEAM game. Stars need support. When they have that support they look great... when they don't, they struggle.

You can find examples of this fact each and every year for as long as you'd care to go back in the archives.

I don't even understand where your argument is coming from since Randolph already PROVED how ineffective he was when he played for poor teams. Where was the "leadership" then? Why couldn't he carry those teams into the post-season?
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:59 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Lol.... no... you really didn't.

Why do you think that ORL went to the finals that year? Was it because of Howard? Did he play harder/better than he did this post-season?

Or did the Magic have more success then because Howard supporting cast played much better?

You're buying into the idea that the NBA has been pushing since the days of MJ... that ONE player can carry a team to a title.

That's a false assumption. Basketball is a TEAM game. Stars need support. When they have that support they look great... when they don't, they struggle.

You can find examples of this fact each and every year for as long as you'd care to go back in the archives.?

Lol..... ya..... i really did. its just u have a stubborn love for Bosh (have no idea why).
and no i don't view that one player can carry a team to a title and nowhere did i say that so i don't know where you got that from. however, i think that one player can carry his team to success. and success is different on a team by team basis. if memphis' playoff run ended right here i would view it has successful whereas i wouldn't view bosh's tenure in toronto as successful.

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I don't even understand where your argument is coming from since Randolph already PROVED how ineffective he was when he played for poor teams. Where was the "leadership" then? Why couldn't he carry those teams into the post-season?
thats more on his immaturity and offcourt troubles. these last two years proves how good he is when he is focused

anyways, the point of the matter is. randolph these last 2 years is better than chris bosh. and right now have people considering him the best PF in the game. i'm not saying he is or isn't. just being CONSIDERED is already saying something.
chris bosh? he isn't in the conversation.
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Old 05-03-2011, 07:59 PM   #237 (permalink)
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Lol..... ya..... i really did. its just u have a stubborn love for Bosh (have no idea why).
and no i don't view that one player can carry a team to a title and nowhere did i say that so i don't know where you got that from. however, i think that one player can carry his team to success. and success is different on a team by team basis. if memphis' playoff run ended right here i would view it has successful whereas i wouldn't view bosh's tenure in toronto as successful.

thats more on his immaturity and offcourt troubles. these last two years proves how good he is when he is focused

anyways, the point of the matter is. randolph these last 2 years is better than chris bosh. and right now have people considering him the best PF in the game. i'm not saying he is or isn't. just being CONSIDERED is already saying something.
chris bosh? he isn't in the conversation.
The fact that you think this pretty makes arguing with you a pointless endeavor... but everyone knows I love to argue, so why not continue?


What is Randolph doing on the court NOW that he hasn't done for years?

He's ALWAYS been a great rebounder.

He's ALWAYS been a good shooter.

He's ALWAYS been a bull in the paint.

He's ALWAYS been spotty on D.


What's the difference over these past 2 years?

He actually has a solid TEAM around him to cover his weaknesses and accentuate his strengths.

Look at Pau Gasol... did you hear about him when he was in MEM years ago? People were saying that he was "average".. and "soft"...

Then he goes to LA and joins Kobe, Bynum and Odom and suddenly people are saying that he's "the best PF in the NBA".

Coincidence? I think not....
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:35 PM   #238 (permalink)
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He's ALWAYS been spotty on D.
Couple years ago I couldn't stand ZBo but he certainly has changed his behavior over the last little while. His play has been steller and definitely impressive. Part of that is having Gasol cover his defensive liabilities. It's a nice pairing. As for being better than Bosh? That's easy...yes.

I would love to snag Gasol but based on that I think it would be tough. Randolph and Gasol compliment each other very well.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:52 PM   #239 (permalink)
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The fact that you think this pretty makes arguing with you a pointless endeavor... but everyone knows I love to argue, so why not continue?
so u admit ur just trolling now right?
so ya, arguing with you is pointless

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What is Randolph doing on the court NOW that he hasn't done for years?

He's ALWAYS been a great rebounder.

He's ALWAYS been a good shooter.

He's ALWAYS been a bull in the paint.

He's ALWAYS been spotty on D.


What's the difference over these past 2 years?

He actually has a solid TEAM around him to cover his weaknesses and accentuate his strengths.

Look at Pau Gasol... did you hear about him when he was in MEM years ago? People were saying that he was "average".. and "soft"...

Then he goes to LA and joins Kobe, Bynum and Odom and suddenly people are saying that he's "the best PF in the NBA".

Coincidence? I think not....
LOL
man oh man....
i said "thats more on his immaturity and offcourt troubles. these last two years proves how good he is when he is focused"
yet the points u provided have nothing to do with that
you even bolded what i said!!! yet you don't understand any of it

and stop pointing out to me that randolphs on a good team now. why the hell does that matter? Bosh is on a better team now also.....jeez. but randolph is leading his team and Bosh is playing a significant role on his. whatever
all i'm saying is randolph is better than Bosh and you are part of a dying breed that thinks otherwise. end of story

ps: how old are you man? cuz i can't believe that an adult could idolize a public figure and put him on a pedestal like ur doing with bosh.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:05 PM   #240 (permalink)
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why do I get the feeling that Zach will blow chunks tonight?
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