Zach Randolph: "I'm better than Chris Bosh" - Page 10
Old 04-30-2011, 05:41 PM   #181 (permalink)
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When God gave brain to men, Randolph was playing hide and seek.
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Old 04-30-2011, 05:43 PM   #182 (permalink)
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Lol..... I don't think he played at an MVP level for a whole season, and don't think he'll ever be a serious MVP candidate, so I'm being foolish?

You seem to think I hate Bosh, when in fact I just don't buy into him being a top 15 player. It's not a big deal really, but you're dreaming about dreaming about trying to make me have your opinion...
You don't have any sense of what my opinion is. You brought up his mention of MVP, called him a failure based on that, and then refused to accept that it was not an allusion to being MVP-worthy, but rather a goal that he was entirely capable of attaining had he been able to translate his play to wins, which he acknowledged was a pre-requisite.

You made out like he thought more of himself than he ever proved capable, and that he had proven enough in his own mind. That was just a terrible interpretation of what he said.

On top of that you insist on denying some largely irrelevant label of "franchise player" as if that means something. Now you say he isn't top 15. But there are 30 franchises. It's quite confusing, and you made it that way all because you were indeed foolish enough to allow Jeff to school your ass to begin with. Chris Bosh is a top player, a key player, an impact player as far as his team is concerned. That may turn out to be a problem for them. Or it might not. It still doesn't alter the obvious fact that he is relied on to perform to the same extent as Wade and Lebron, though clearly in a different role.

At the end of the day Zach Randolph and Chris Bosh are not going to play one-on-one for any title. Basketball requires 5 players, and both of these players are of a similar value depending on the way the rest of the team is constructed. We can like one better than the other for various reasons, but denying the importance of the other 4 players on the floor is always going to a non-starter for me - it just shows a willful ignorance of the game in order to push a personal agenda. Hooray.
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Old 04-30-2011, 05:44 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Z-Bo has taken over in the last couple of minutes. A couple of offensive boards by abusing Bosh, a huge block on Lebron, then he sealed off Bosh on the interior and gave Conley a clear path to the hoop. That seal was huge.


Oh, Bosh just hit a three.

vvvvvv Amongst other things, proof LX can be objective.

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That was a good game. Zach's dominance all over the place on both ends really points to the need for more size in Miami. And now with Haslem injured, it looks like they are going to need to tread water for a little while. No 70 wins this year.
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Old 04-30-2011, 05:56 PM   #184 (permalink)
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vvvvvv Amongst other things, proof LX can be objective.
I also said last off-season that I though Zach really turned his game around and had become a guy that could be trusted on defense. He certainly started convincing me before this season. But I can't emphasize enough how different his current circumstances are. He's not left alone on an island, and he doesn't play like he's on alone on an island, and he's figured out how important that is. The biggest part of his game in this series has been sharing the ball, and allowing the ball to constantly go into the post without the ball getting lost in a black hole. It's the kind of offense I wasn't sure was possible or favorable with current rules, even with two physical bigs.

I look forward to seeing how far they can take it. It might be that the Spurs needed to rely on Matt Bonner as a physical defender more than they would have liked. As in the Miami game - it was something that the Grizzlies could capitalize on in a big way.
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:18 PM   #185 (permalink)
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You don't have any sense of what my opinion is. You brought up his mention of MVP, called him a failure based on that, and then refused to accept that it was not an allusion to being MVP-worthy, but rather a goal that he was entirely capable of attaining had he been able to translate his play to wins, which he acknowledged was a pre-requisite.

You made out like he thought more of himself than he ever proved capable, and that he had proven enough in his own mind. That was just a terrible interpretation of what he said.

On top of that you insist on denying some largely irrelevant label of "franchise player" as if that means something. Now you say he isn't top 15. But there are 30 franchises. It's quite confusing, and you made it that way all because you were indeed foolish enough to allow Jeff to school your ass to begin with. Chris Bosh is a top player, a key player, an impact player as far as his team is concerned. That may turn out to be a problem for them. Or it might not. It still doesn't alter the obvious fact that he is relied on to perform to the same extent as Wade and Lebron, though clearly in a different role.

At the end of the day Zach Randolph and Chris Bosh are not going to play one-on-one for any title. Basketball requires 5 players, and both of these players are of a similar value depending on the way the rest of the team is constructed. We can like one better than the other for various reasons, but denying the importance of the other 4 players on the floor is always going to a non-starter for me - it just shows a willful ignorance of the game in order to push a personal agenda. Hooray.
Ok

Last edited by carp; 04-30-2011 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:45 PM   #186 (permalink)
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What the fuck are you even arguing? Hooray? I never denied the importance of four other players, I never did plenty of what you suggest.... but I'll say this.... it takes a fool to argue with a fool, and you're foolish if you think you're right and I'm wrong. You're so intent on proving me the fool, yet you're trying to jump in on a comment I made and break into several different points of conversation.

Congratulations for being made to look like a fool.... I wish I could have been the one to do it, but you're on your own.

As far as Jeff and I, well, you're always welcome.
What am I arguing? Not a bad question considering the moving goalposts in a couple of different threads.

What did you say? This is what I responded to directly -

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There is more reason to believe Bosh wouldn't have carried Memphis to a series win than there is to believe he could have.
Sorry - but I was looking for some means of arriving at the "more reason". You are making a quantitative statement with nothing behind it. I questioned the premise in that there is no way to transpose what Bosh has done as a player relied on in the manner that Randolph is, without considering the enormous difference in the bigs alongside each, and the perimeter defense one could rely on while the other played on a team that fell victim to 3-point plays.

You then blamed Bosh regardless. "He wilted". And I was silly for suggesting that the Spurs (relying heavily on threes and sacrificing much of their past defense for more offense) were anything like the three-loving Magic and the perimeter-oriented Nets.

Then you went on about Bosh's claiming to be worthy of MVP. And your only real response at my trying to get behind your original quantitative statement, was that JO should be measured in the same light as Marc Gasol. Sorry - but that is what you're going to base your "more reason" argument on?

I admit I have gotten lost between this thread and the KG thread a couple of times. In both threads I find a common theme of dismissing much of what Bosh has done. Let me try this - if Z-Bo did not have Gasol in the middle and instead had to go up against defenses packing the paint, might he have "wilted". I think he would have been less productive, and looked a little ineffective, but still could have seen his team succeed all the same as long as that perimeter defense remained so effective. I think he is past making it about him alone. Bosh didn't make it about himself either, and that was something that apparently makes him less worthy of MVP, being a franchise player, being top 15 - but it was and is the only way to play - even MJ found that to be true.

Last edited by LX; 04-30-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:07 PM   #187 (permalink)
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What am I arguing? Not a bad question considering the moving goalposts in a couple of different threads.

What did you say? This is what I responded to directly -



Sorry - but I was looking for some means of arriving at the "more reason". You are making a quantitative statement with nothing behind it. I questioned the premise in that there is no way to transpose what Bosh has done as a player relied on in the manner that Randolph is, without considering the enormous difference in the bigs alongside each, and the perimeter defense one could rely on while the other played on a team that fell victim to 3-point plays.

You then blamed Bosh regardless. "He wilted". And I was silly for suggesting that the Spurs (relying heavily on threes and sacrificing much of their past defense for more offense) were anything like the three-loving Magic and the perimeter-oriented Nets.

Then you went on about Bosh's claiming to be worthy of MVP. And your only real response at my trying to get behind your original quantitative statement, was that JO should be measured in the same light as Marc Gasol. Sorry - but that is what you're going to base your "more reason" argument on?

I admit I have gotten lost between this thread and the KG thread a couple of times. In both threads I find a common theme of dismissing much of what Bosh has done. Let me try this - if Z-Bo did not have Gasol in the middle and instead had to go up against defenses packing the paint, might he have "wilted". I think he would have been less productive, and looked a little ineffective, but still could have seen his team succeed all the same as long as that perimeter defense remained so effective. I think he is past making it about him alone. Bosh didn't make it about himself either, and that was something that apparently makes him less worthy of MVP, being a franchise player, being top 15 - but it was and is the only way to play - even MJ found that to be true.
I'm not even going to read your post, I'm seriously done with getting caught up in your self-admitted web of thread fusing. There isn't a linear argument going on and I could care less. I am sorry for not being aware of what post you were initially citing, but for what it's worth, I've never said Bosh was a bad player..... cheers.

OH, and I never typed 'he wilted'.... go back and check, but you're confusing my posts with another. Might help some of the confusion.
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Old 04-30-2011, 09:21 PM   #188 (permalink)
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Really? Bosh wilted in those playoff series' too... wasn't just on 'the king of soft' and a lack of perimeter D. The Grizzlies did more than just defend the perimeter.... and they did it without their best player against one of the toughest outs in the playoffs. The spurs have been a top team for the last 10 years. You're comparing them to New jersey and Orlando against us?
I may have confused two completely similar threads (for shame for shame) but I have not misquoted you or confused anything you've stated. Nice try though.

I never suggested you thought Bosh was a bad player. Nor do I feel compelled to defend Bosh against your criticisms (if I had noticed any real criticisms). I just wanted some idea of what reasons you were talking about. I'll try pulling teeth next time. There is "more reason" to believe that would be easier, and less painful.
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Old 04-30-2011, 09:28 PM   #189 (permalink)
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I may have confused two completely similar threads (for shame for shame) but I have not misquoted you or confused anything you've stated. Nice try though.

I never suggested you thought Bosh was a bad player. Nor do I feel compelled to defend Bosh against your criticisms (if I had noticed any real criticisms). I just wanted some idea of what reasons you were talking about. I'll try pulling teeth next time. There is "more reason" to believe that would be easier, and less painful.
Again, I never typed "he wilted" lol you actually did misquote me. If I feel inclined to argue, I'll present a more reasonable offer.... I just feel you're not really compelling me to even bother. You haven't made a point that I need to discuss.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:00 PM   #190 (permalink)
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The thing here is that there is no absolute right or wrong answer. It's all based on perspective and you both obviously look at things differently.

That said, it's gone beyond discussion and sharing opinions. It's turned into a pissing match and as two of the more intelligent members of this site, you're starting to look petty.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:21 PM   #191 (permalink)
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The thing here is that there is no absolute right or wrong answer. It's all based on perspective and you both obviously look at things differently.

That said, it's gone beyond discussion and sharing opinions. It's turned into a pissing match and as two of the more intelligent members of this site, you're starting to look petty.
+1.... I appreciate the thoughts. I'll act in accordance.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:37 PM   #192 (permalink)
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*shrug*

Zach avgd 21 + 9 this season as the 1st option (on .503% FG).

Bosh avgd. 19 + 8 this season as the 3rd option (on .496% FG).


Zach avgd 21 + 9 in the first round this year (on 50% FG)

Bosh avgd 20 + 9 in the 1st round this year (on 48% FG).


Really don't see where the huge difference is TBH.
Actually Zach averaged 20-12 while Bosh average 19-8. And he was a second option for most of the season, so that is a pretty big difference. As for playoffs, its more likely that Zach will continue his play rather than Bosh.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:38 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Randolph is a damn beast!
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Old 05-01-2011, 02:15 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Me too, me too, I am better lookin' than Chris Bosh!
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Old 05-01-2011, 02:55 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Actually Zach averaged 20-12 while Bosh average 19-8. And he was a second option for most of the season, so that is a pretty big difference. As for playoffs, its more likely that Zach will continue his play rather than Bosh.
That's entirely likely given that Zach is the CLEAR #1 option for his team right now and will be guaranteed 15-20 shots/gm.

We'll see though.
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:05 PM   #196 (permalink)
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watching zach right now....wow....hes schooling Perk and Ibaka
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Old 05-01-2011, 06:10 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Zach is far better than Bosh right now. Don't even know how someone could say otherwise if they have watch Memphis in the playoffs. And he has some heart.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:40 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Zach is far better than Bosh right now. Don't even know how someone could say otherwise if they have watch Memphis in the playoffs. And he has some heart.
I for one never said otherwise. I just think it's important to point out that Zach has found himself within some very suitable circumstances, without which it would be hard to say anything but the reverse most likely. And really - it doesn't matter - because we aren't going to see two players alone on the court. It's quite possible to enjoy what each, and many other guys contribute to their team's success.

Memphis-Miami in the Finals? I could go for that. And right now I'd probably cheer for the Grizzlies. If they ended up beating the Lakers on the way, then it wouldn't even be something to think about - I might get a Z-jersey. Or a poster of a Z-facial on big Z.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:04 PM   #199 (permalink)
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if anything, Bosh has regressed this season from last..
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:49 PM   #200 (permalink)
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if anything, Bosh has regressed this season from last..
Not necessarily. I think he is just being shadowed by LeBron and Dwyane Wade.

Different from being on a team with Bargnani as your next option.
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