Zach Lowe: keep Lowry or Calderon??
Old 01-16-2013, 05:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,309
Representing:
Default Zach Lowe: keep Lowry or Calderon??

I'm posting most of this piece here. It was just too hard to leave much out, since one bit relies on the next to put it in the proper context.

Basketball Decisions: Should the Raptors Keep Kyle Lowry or Jose Calderon? - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

Quote:
The Toronto Raptors gave up a likely lottery pick, now property of the Oklahoma City Thunder, to make Kyle Lowry their starting point guard of the present and future — the dynamic off-the-bounce creator that boring old Jose Calderon could never be. Lowry had worn out his welcome amid lineup uncertainty in both Memphis and Houston, alienating coaches and rubbing some teammates the wrong way. But he'd also grown into an above-average starting point guard playing on one of the best bang-for-the-buck contracts in the league. He’s Philly tough, and his fast-paced style and defensive intensity figured to mesh nicely with Raptors coach Dwane Casey.

But like the anointed Calderon Replacers that came before him (T.J. Ford, Jerryd Bayless), Lowry now finds himself backing up the 31-year-old Spaniard — a perfectly suitable veteran who also happens to be playing on an $11 million expiring contract that stands as Toronto’s best trade asset in their on-again, off-again pursuit of building blocks like Rudy Gay.

It’s clear that Casey prefers Calderon’s pass-first style of play for now, even as he pushes Lowry to embrace his aggression and denies he’s had any of the “coachability” issues that dogged Lowry in other places. “We haven’t had any of that here,” Casey told Grantland before the Raptors’ loss in Brooklyn on Tuesday. “And Kyle’s edge is what makes him a great player.”

Both Casey and Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo are pleased with how supportive Lowry has been of Calderon — screaming encouragement from the bench and even mock-cooling Calderon with a towel during a hot streak last weekend against Milwaukee. "Kyle has been through something like this in other places, and the outcome wasn't good for anyone," Colangelo says. "He has done it right this time. Almost to a fault, he has done exactly what the coaches have asked him to do."

But Casey has said repeatedly that Lowry needs to find more balance in his game between passing and shooting, between rushing and pausing to see what openings might emerge for teammates. “That’s the Kyle everyone is looking for,” Casey said after Tuesday’s loss, when Lowry exploded for 21 much-needed points trying to lead a comeback on a badly sprained ankle. “We need him to be aggressive, but still make the right basketball decisions.”

Casey has repeated the “basketball decisions” line often, and league observers read it as a clear message from Casey that Lowry needs more Calderon in his game. Colangelo seems a bit uncomfortable with that. “When you put the reins on Kyle, you take away some of his best attributes,” Colangelo told Grantland during a pregame courtside chat on Monday. “You can’t take an alley cat and turn him into a house pet.”

It’s a step too far to suggest there's a bitter divide between the front office and the coaching staff on Lowry. But there is at least a difference of opinion, and how the team handles that is crucial as the Raptors work to assemble a core that might be able to contend in a post-Miami world. Calderon will be a free agent this summer, and though he’ll be 32 by the start of next season, folks around the league expect his competent play will still command something in the $6 million to $9 million range on the open market. Lowry’s contract expires after next season. Giving both market value is a waste of resources. Paying just one market value will take Toronto off the list of teams with max-level cap room in the summer of 2014, though they should get back there the following July. (Note: That could obviously change if Toronto makes some dramatic cost-cutting moves, including the use of the amnesty provision on Andrea Bargnani, but the smart money is on Linas Kleiza as Toronto’s most likely amnesty candidate).

So who should Toronto choose?
Quote:
Offense

There’s no question Lowry is the far more dynamic player. He’s fast, he’s five years younger than Calderon, and attempts three times as many shots at the rim, per Hoopdata. His teams over the last three seasons have generally played at a faster pace and enjoyed a healthier overall shot selection when he's on the floor — a higher share of shots in the restricted area, more 3's, and more free throws, according to NBA.com’s stats database. Lowry himself accounts for a lot of that change, since those shot types represent his core skill set. Toronto’s offense this season has scored three more points per 100 possessions with Lowry on the floor, even though he's suffered through several injuries, logged heavy minutes with some punchless lineups, and not yet had time to develop chemistry with his pick-and-roll big men.

But Lowry’s game lacks a certain subtlety that Calderon brings. Lowry has a tendency to hunt for his own on the pick-and-roll, and to do so at a hyperactive pace. If defenses give him a tiny slice of space to launch an off-the-dribble 3 early in the shot clock, Lowry's launching it. And when Lowry drives, he often does so at turbo speed, and on a direct north-south path to the rim. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Lowry makes a lot of those off-the-dribble 3's, and he's been one of the league’s 15 most efficient pick-and-roll ball handlers for two straight seasons, per Synergy Sports. But working so fast means that Lowry is often at the rim before his big man pick-and-roll partner — Amir Johnson, Ed Davis, et al. — has had a chance to even begin his cut down the lane in earnest. Lowry isn’t as polished at the start-and-stop, hesitation game as the Chris Paul/Steve Nash types who use that change of pace to give their big men time to find openings and passing lanes.

“Kyle is more of a straight-line guy,” Casey tells Grantland. “And he does it without stopping for a caution light.”

As a result, Lowry dishes relatively few assists that lead to shots at the rim for his teammates. Calderon typically dishes out twice as many such assists per 40 minutes, even though he rarely penetrates below the foul line.

Calderon is also an outstanding shooter, perhaps the unlikeliest member of the exclusive 50/40/90 club. Calderon has helped get Toronto's big men going, and the Raptors' record is much better with him as the starter in Lowry's place. But much of that had to do with Lowry's early-season injuries and the schedule easing up dramatically when Calderon entered the starting five.

None of this is to say that Calderon is “better,” though. Lowry’s high-speed penetration lends itself better to a drive-and-kick game, which is why a higher-than-expected number of Lowry’s assists — and a larger raw number than Calderon’s — lead to 3-pointers. Terrence Ross, Toronto’s promising rookie sharpshooter, stands as an intriguing wing partner for Lowry; Casey told me he's excited to see them play together more. If one of the Ross/DeMar DeRozan pairing can develop into a reliable defender of small forwards, a Lowry-Ross-DeRozan-Johnson-Jonas Valanciunas lineup could hold great promise. A shooting power forward would open up the floor even more for Lowry’s skill set, and Casey is careful to remind Toronto-watchers that Lowry hasn’t gotten much chance to play with Andrea Bargnani (that elusive stretch four) or Valanciunas. The latter rolls so fast to the hoop, Casey says, that he might be the rare big man who can roll with Lowry — or at least suck in perimeter defenders nearly as quickly as he does. As for Bargnani: His defense and rebounding limitations so outweigh what he might provide on offense next to Lowry — and with more selective shot choices — that Toronto would probably be wise to find a cheaper big man shooter elsewhere.
Quote:
Defense

The contrast between the two is just as dramatic here. Calderon is slow, has trouble staying in front of guards even in one-on-one situations, and produces very few turnovers. But he knows where he’s supposed to be, communicates well (and loudly), and sticks to the Raptors’ scheme.

Lowry is a speedy ball-hawk whose defense has slipped since his peak in Houston in 2010-11, mostly because he breaks from the system to freelance far too often — a habit that's annoyed coaches at all of his stops. Coaches can be a bit too conservative when it comes to perimeter defenders with a tendency to gamble or stray from the system. Smart defenders can win those bets at a decent rate, and a few teams — San Antonio with Manu Ginobili, Memphis with Tony Allen — have benefited from shrugging their shoulders and allowing those kinds of players to be a little fast and loose with the rules. Live-ball turnovers are among the most valuable commodities in the sport, after all.

But Lowry has gone too far, and he’s hurting his team on too many possessions. He’s still fine on the ball and away from it against an offense’s first action; he can bother a point guard on a pick-and-roll, and when he’s on the wing, he knows when to crash into the paint and bump a big man rolling to the rim.

But it’s after his man has given up the ball, and the offense has gone into a secondary action, that Lowry will begin to wander recklessly.

He can be an impact defender if he finds a better balance to his game; he was among the very best point-guard defenders in the league just two seasons ago.

He’s already an impact offensive player, especially when he has shooters to whom he can kick the ball, and he’d leap another level if he added just a dash of Calderon-style patience.

But he only needs a dash. Lowry still has room to grow, and some of that growth will come just from playing more alongside Toronto’s core pieces. Calderon has peaked, and he’s aging. The Raptors should stay on course for now — continue to peddle Calderon, let him walk in free agency if they can’t trade him and/or re-sign him on the cheap, and work with Lowry in hopes he settles down as a player and a personality. Colangelo wouldn’t bite on which way he’s leaning. “There are a lot of people who want to say what sort of determination we should take,” he says. “The great thing is, we’re the ones who get to make that determination at the right time for us.”
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

I already posted the link in a post in the Lowry Ford Syndrome thread.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Scully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 872
Representing:
Default

Interesting piece. In that it is Lowry's lack of patience on the defensive end that is creating much of the perceived problems.
Scully is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 74,788
Representing:
Default

The stupidity that is this franchise dictates that Pylon will be here 4 more years.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
a nacho hound

Senior Member
 
Toby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South of Portland, home of the Blazers
Posts: 5,218
Representing:
Default

via The Score:

Toby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
I already posted the link in a post in the Lowry Ford Syndrome thread.
Ha - you posted the link at the same time I was formatting my post while eating. No biggie. I think it's good to start off the whole debate again while being better able to consider what the team is looking for and what they are seeing.

I found it interesting that there is possibly a split between BC and DC on this. Although I still think Kyle's wheels play into how he's being used, and Jose starting only helps in selling him.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 07:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,386
Representing:
Default

This is a no brainer, Jose will be gone come July if he's not traded before the deadline.

Or they can pay/offer him 9 million on average again(over paying of course) and endure more 30 win,non playoff berth seasons with Captain Calderón as their "quarterback".
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 07:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
a Piston Fan !

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,258
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
I found it interesting that there is possibly a split between BC and DC on this. Although I still think Kyle's wheels play into how he's being used, and Jose starting only helps in selling him.
DC like previous coaches are not big fans of Lowry's game. BC on the other hand is a Nash guy and guess what Calderon is as close as BC will get in having a pg with similar traits as Nash. Calderon is not Nash but if you like Nash you have to like Calderon.
raptor123 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 08:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,786
Representing:
Default

Jose is not like Nash at all IMO

He is more like a slower John Stockton without the defense.
halphbreedballer is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 08:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,951
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor123 View Post
DC like previous coaches are not big fans of Lowry's game. BC on the other hand is a Nash guy and guess what Calderon is as close as BC will get in having a pg with similar traits as Nash. Calderon is not Nash but if you like Nash you have to like Calderon.
what halphbreed said

also, if what you say about BC is true, why has BC been trying to trade his ass for years now? comeon dude, try being logical for once on the jose matter, you are on others, so try, please
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 08:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
stripes

Senior Member
 
just4_raps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,818
Representing:
Default

raptor123 IS jose calderon
just4_raps is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,951
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by just4_raps View Post
raptor123 IS jose calderon
no, jose as an individual wouldn't be such a ridiculous troll. too much character for that. rap123 is a worse version of cousins in terms of character
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
the boss

Senior Member
 
DonMughal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 4,283
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
via The Score:

And Bayless.
DonMughal is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,951
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMughal View Post
And Bayless.
that picture's wrong, joee was the theif of ford's and lowry's job, both due to injury. ford played worse after injury than jose so it was warranted but this lowry thing has gone on long enough. DC needs to stop showcasing jose
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 74,788
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
that picture's wrong, joee was the theif of ford's and lowry's job, both due to injury. ford played worse after injury than jose so it was warranted but this lowry thing has gone on long enough. DC needs to stop showcasing jose
And other than the first month of his second season here Jack outplayed Calderon. Which is why we tried to ship Calderon to charlotte that summer.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
Keep it simple

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 8,566
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMughal View Post
And Bayless.
bayless doesnt deserve to be there
Dario is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 10:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dario View Post
bayless doesnt deserve to be there
ouch.

as a starter he was ok/average. off the bench he was much worse.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 10:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,309
Representing:
Default

Ok. I think this question has been answered.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,427
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Ok. I think this question has been answered.
This question was answered in the summer as soon as Lowry was traded here.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,533
Representing:
Default

again and again I'm stunned about his so-called debate ... on one hand you have youth, low salary and future, on the other you have old, expensive and limited future.

There can be a legitimate debate which one is better (or, to be fairer to Jose, which one makes us better as a team). But I doubt there is a single guy in the Raptors front office who is not certain who we want to keep, if we have a choice.

Of course, if you can trade lowry and Bargnani for a star (say kevin love as an example), you probably go for it. It's far easier to get PGs, after all - we got lowry fairly cheaply, and two other decent PGs were acquired cheaply this summer (lin and dragic).
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24