Zach Lowe: Did anyone win the Rudy Gay trade?
Old 01-31-2013, 03:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,228
Representing:
Raptors Zach Lowe: Did anyone win the Rudy Gay trade?

Quote:
(Multiple league sources say all three of Randolph, Speights, and Mike Conley are on pace to hit various incentives that would have jacked up their cap numbers for next season; Randolph already nailed one such benchmark by making the All-Star team. The exact collective payroll increase at this point is unclear, but it could end up somewhere in the $1.25 million range and factored into Memphis’ taking an ultra-frugal route here.) Memphis now has the small-forward position covered, meaning their only urgent remaining need this summer will be figuring out the shooting guard spot. Tony Allen is a free agent, and he’s due a raise; Memphis will either pay him that raise or sign a replacement at a similar rate.

Put more simply: Memphis, as of now, is looking at a payroll around $63.5 million for next season, including Jerryd Bayless’s player option and their draft pick, with a hole at shooting guard and another spot or two to fill. They may yet approach next year’s tax line. Keeping Speights and doing this Rudy deal for Prince would have taken them over the tax. The only way to assure the payroll savings over the next two years Memphis apparently wanted and to keep that first-round pick would've been to find a Gay trade or some other moves, now or later, that brought back less 2013-14 salary in return. That could have been as simple as reversing the order of these moves — doing the Gay trade first to relieve some urgency and decrease the price of moving the next chunk of post-2013 salary (i.e., Speights) that had to go. And a Gay deal that brought back no post-2013 salary at all — no Prince — would have left two starting positions to fill instead of one. You can bet Memphis tried with the aforementioned expiring contracts, and by approaching Orlando about potentially dumping a player into the Magic’s massive Dwight Howard trade exception at some point. They couldn’t find the right deal — for now. Losing that first-round pick was the price of certainty in terms of avoiding next season’s tax, even if this Gay deal alone would've gotten Memphis under this season’s tax line.

Quote:
Toronto wouldn’t have had cap room this summer, but they could've had max-level room in the summer of 2014. That’s gone now, even if they dump Bargnani and somehow find a taker for the badly overpaid Landry Fields. Toronto has essentially spent that cap room on Gay, though Gay gave Toronto no assurances he’ll exercise his $19.3 million player option for 2014-15, multiple sources said. The Raptors are confident they’ll be able to re-sign him then, and if they can’t, it will be because he has floundered in Toronto.

Toronto is betting he won’t. Gasol and Randolph clogged the lane in Memphis, and though Valanciunas and Johnson will take up some space there, they're faster and more agile than the Memphis guys, and they demand fewer post touches. Both are very aggressive and speedy in diving to the hoop on pick-and-rolls, and that speed might open up the floor a bit for for Gay’s driving and passing. Gay might also get a confidence boost from being the undisputed No. 1 guy, and the Raptors could reshape their roster in ways that maximize Gay’s production in future trades involving Bargnani and others.

But there are a lot of “mights” there, and a lot of guys on this roster getting paid more than they should be. A six-man Lowry-Ross-Gay-Valanciunas-Johnson-DeRozan core is enticing. It’s not a championship team, but it could easily be a mid-tier playoff team next season in the Eastern Conference. It could be something more with better-than-expected development and a knockout trade in the next 12 months or so.

But this isn’t the ideal way to build a team. That’s both easy to say and true. The ideal way to build a team is to either nail a top-3 pick or ace free agency. Toronto had its chance at the draft pick route in 2006, but had the poor luck of picking in a year with no Tim Duncan/Derrick Rose/Dwight Howard type at the top of everyone’s draft list. As for free agents, Toronto has basically no history of attracting real game-changers, who are tough to attract anyway, without Bird rights, beaches, or other game-changing stars already present.

This isn’t ideal, and it probably won’t amount to much, but it’s not all that harmful for a team staring at its fifth straight lottery appearance.

Did Anyone Win the Rudy Gay Trade? - The Triangle Blog - Grantland
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 06:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,282
Representing:
Default

very good, this nails it
I'd rather have gay now, than max cap space in 2014. We still have a few roadbloacks to cover, but they are not insurmountable, like attracting a top tier FA is.

A lot of unknowns, JV's development is crucial and also the duo ross/demar has to improve. But a solid JV and a healthy lowry would give us a nice core. Also, if we amnesty Bargnani and with kleiza expiring, we would only have 54 million or so committed in lowry/demar/ross/jv/amir/gay/fields in 2014, which, in theory, would give us some cap space to get one more good player (those are usually much easier to attract, especially if we are a decent team by then). With fields expiring, we may be able to unload him to a team (for example, give somebody 3 million and fields for a player making 2 million etc).

Alternatively, Bargnani nets us a decent piece in return, which would be just as good.

If things fall into place, this could be a 50 win team in 2014. Worst comes to worst, we wait one more year and we could have a clean balance sheet in the summer of 2015 with just demar's 10 milllion and a few rookie contracts.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 07:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,287
Representing:
Default

Memphis and Detroit won the trade. Toronto got fleeced as usual.
fk24 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 07:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,228
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fk24 View Post
Memphis and Detroit won the trade. Toronto got fleeced as usual.
Giving up ONE player for Rudy Gay is getting fleeced?


Someone needs a hug
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,796
Representing:
Default

We won the trade because we got the best player, but we are not a better team yet. We still have some major issue to address such as the backup PG, AB, Fields. We are not in a rebuilding process, BC is simply trying to salvage his mistakes so far, starting with Gay, a player he could have drafted to begin with, AB - to move the actual number one pick that he drafted, Fields - to possibly move the glue guy that he signed for an absurd contract to try and get Nash, the 39 year old PG. - Fields will by tough to move. DD - the player he signed and won the bidding when he was the only bidder.... I like the trade, though, but don't like the situation we are at when it comes to salvaging the damage he has done.

Last edited by Tommy C; 02-01-2013 at 01:45 AM.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 01:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
Fuck the Nets

Banging thai girls now.
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 362
Representing:
Default

The problem with this trade is that it proves in a very solid way that this organization has no direction. The outcome of this trade will show that the PG position has become worse and worse.
R Gay's numbers does not match the amount of money he makes. I do believe that Memphis won this trade and Raptors have screwed up big time.
RaptorsVictim is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
tank nation

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
Representing:
Default

We traded 2 bench guys for rudy gay? Hell yeah!
papaxes is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 08:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

Toronto wins because they get the best player right now in the trade but i don't think Detroit or Memphis are losers either. They both got pieces to work with and i could see the Pistons packaging Calderon in another deal.
MBailey85 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 09:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
is excited about the brazilian connection

Member
 
SteveTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Meran, Italy
Posts: 211
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Toronto wins because they get the best player right now in the trade but i don't think Detroit or Memphis are losers either. They both got pieces to work with and i could see the Pistons packaging Calderon in another deal.
No way Detroit trades Calderon, they have coveted this trade all year and inquired about him a lot.
Look at the total amount of assists they have; they missed a PG as Calderon badly. Not to mention he could mentor Knight. For me they hope to resign him this summer.
SteveTT is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 09:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 241
Representing:
Default

When we play detroit... Lowry better pressure Calderon like he stole his wallet or sumtin! No breathing room....he'll stop beyond 3 point line and just hold the ball!
7shikamaru7 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 09:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveTT View Post
No way Detroit trades Calderon, they have coveted this trade all year and inquired about him a lot.
Look at the total amount of assists they have; they missed a PG as Calderon badly. Not to mention he could mentor Knight. For me they hope to resign him this summer.
i had hoped Jose could've mentored Knight in Toronto to be honest but JV is cool and the Raps needed a Center.

Didn't know they had a hard on for Calderon,in all likelihood they keep him but i wouldn't be surprised if they used his expiring contract to get rid of Charlie V or Stuckey. What serious chance do they have of resigning him and how much really could Knight learn from Jose in two and a half months?
MBailey85 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 09:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
threes and free throws

Senior Member
 
Metallikid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,870
Representing:
Default

I've been digesting this for a while now and I've come to these conclusions:

We got the best player in the trade hands down, both now and in the future, and despite his contract, he is a fringe all-star who still has plenty of potential left in his 26 year-old game.

Second and perhaps more importantly, I don't think this trade can be properly evaluated until supplementary moves happen.

Taken as is I think this is a win for all three teams with the Raptor's being the biggest beneficiary. The negativity is shortsighted and based on pie in the sky ideas of FA signings and multi-team Bargnani trades. When he's UFA in two years we'll be signing him to a considerably smaller contract while he's in his prime.

We can free up cap space easily by amnestying AB and aim for upgrading JLIII and going for an almost all-star level big like Smoove, Gortat or Millsap if they want to go that route.
Metallikid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,743
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallikid View Post
I've been digesting this for a while now and I've come to these conclusions:

We got the best player in the trade hands down, both now and in the future, and despite his contract, he is a fringe all-star who still has plenty of potential left in his 26 year-old game.

Second and perhaps more importantly, I don't think this trade can be properly evaluated until supplementary moves happen.

Taken as is I think this is a win for all three teams with the Raptor's being the biggest beneficiary. The negativity is shortsighted and based on pie in the sky ideas of FA signings and multi-team Bargnani trades. When he's UFA in two years we'll be signing him to a considerably smaller contract while he's in his prime.

We can free up cap space easily by amnestying AB and aim for upgrading JLIII and going for an almost all-star level big like Smoove, Gortat or Millsap if they want to go that route.
If only it were that easy, I pulled DanH's current cap status for next year, even if the team uses the amnesty on Bargs (and not Kleiza as DanH suggested), waive Haddadi and not pick-up Lucas' option, the team will not have enough to go after a Smoove/Gortat/Milsap/Jefferson. The team will have enough to maybe get a decent back-up for pg, maybe an upgrade at C and still has another position to be filled.

Quote:
2013-14:

Rudy Gay $17,888,931
Andrea Bargnani $10,750,000
Landry Fields $6,250,000
Amir Johnson $6,550,000
Kyle Lowry $6,210,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000 (Player option)
Jonas Valanciunas $3,526,440
DeMar DeRozan $9,500,000
Aaron Gray $2,690,875
Terrence Ross $2,678,640
Hamed Haddadi $1,397,500 ($200,000 guaranteed)
John Lucas $1,567,500 (Team option)
Quincy Acy $788,872
Team Totals $74,398,758

So, the tax line will be going up, but who knows by how much. But it will probably be a little above the 70.31 M it is now. We can clear a bunch by amnestying Kleiza, waiving Haddadi and not picking up Lucas' option, putting us at 67.03 M with 10 players signed (and 3 spaces to fill).

We'd have a solid wing lineup with Gay, DD, Fields and Ross locked in, with Fields and Gay able to spot at the 4 in small ball lineups. We'd be thin up front, with Bargnani, Amir, and Gray, so one of those spots to fill would have to be a big. The other two would have to be a backup PG and probably a combo G to be the third PG and spot minutes at the 2 in case of a wing injury.

There would be room for two minimum signings and a 2 M or so contract to fill those positions if they want to stay under the tax. If they are willing to spend over the cap, the full MLE (5.15 M) is available to us, plus minimum contracts, so long as we stay below the apron (the tax line + 4 M) - for a total of 7.5 M plus in spending available to us.
DanH link

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 02-01-2013 at 10:57 AM.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 01:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
BOOBS

never too old.


 
INSIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: richmond hill
Posts: 11,466
Representing:
Default

i say we won this trade hands down.
1. best player
2. we gave up a guy who was as good as gone in a few months (and we wouldve gotten nada in return).
3. we get the most press - since we got the best player and get a bit more credibility with the critics and writers.
INSIDER is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 02:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Sick, Wicked, and Nasty!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,221
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by INSIDER View Post
i say we won this trade hands down.
1. best player
2. we gave up a guy who was as good as gone in a few months (and we wouldve gotten nada in return).
3. we get the most press - since we got the best player and get a bit more credibility with the critics and writers.
i agree, we got the best player, gave up an expiring contract and a player who has only been good for a couple months and even with more improvement will never be as valuable a player as Gay
people complain about the contract salary, but realistically what is the use of salary? to sign players, which the NBA has proven time and time again that nobody wants to come to Toronto
like BC said the other night, people complain about Jose's salary but in the end it is because his salary was that high that allowed the Gay trade to happen because there was enough salary going back to the Grizzlies
Admiral is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,593
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7shikamaru7 View Post
When we play detroit... Lowry better pressure Calderon like he stole his wallet or sumtin! No breathing room....he'll stop beyond 3 point line and just hold the ball!
You give very little credit.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24