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Old 12-23-2012, 10:08 PM   #81 (permalink)
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But Pau as been in decline for a couple of years now. I'd be happy to see Bargnani go, and could try to see how they could go forward with Pau, but mostly it seems like a high risk without so much of a high reward to go with it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:05 AM   #82 (permalink)
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You would want Cousins..... over Gasol?

Might work out in fantasy leagues. There's no way in HELL I'd ever do it in real life though.

You're just looking at things from a pure numbers standpoint and not factoring in the entire picture.

Pau is a good guy and a smart player. He's also a savvy vet who doesn't rely on athleticism to get his game off.

"We wouldn't be able to utilize his skills?" Huh? Have you not seen our interior passing over the last 5 games?

Gasol would be an IDEAL guy to bring in to firm up the front line, give us a post presence, mentor the young guys and work off of DD and Lowry.

You can't get much better than that. And as well as Ed has played.... he's not a premiere PF. Pau is.
Fuck sakes. I write one line about cousins in 100 and you go mental.

Don't tell me what I'm doing, I'm not looking at numbers. I'm telling you Pau plays the trianlge offense which we do not. And we can't. I'm telling you he plays with KOBE FUCKING BRYANT and his numbers look better than they would here. And you're being the biggest donkey ever right now if you think Gasol is our savour.

I wonder if you even watch sometimes.
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:18 AM   #83 (permalink)
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i think andrea was playing some of his worst basketball in a raptor uniform but i also think the team wasn't playing team ball, it was all one on one, i think if the Raptors continue to play team ball andrea could mesh back and bring his a game back

andrea siting on the bench should learn a valuable lesson
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:36 AM   #84 (permalink)
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i think andrea was playing some of his worst basketball in a raptor uniform but i also think the team wasn't playing team ball, it was all one on one, i think if the Raptors continue to play team ball andrea could mesh back and bring his a game back

andrea siting on the bench should learn a valuable lesson
Partly the reason we weren't playing team ball and sharing the ball is because once Andrea gets the ball he does some over-used hop-step thing and chucks up the ball. We have to seriously stop making excuses for this guy, when a lot of the time he's part of the mistakes and problems.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Partly the reason we weren't playing team ball and sharing the ball is because once Andrea gets the ball he does some over-used hop-step thing and chucks up the ball. We have to seriously stop making excuses for this guy, when a lot of the time he's part of the mistakes and problems.
This is half true. Many times they let him in iso, which is good once in a while but repeating it often he has to realy to his short repertoire of moves.
The key is movement without the ball, which was lacking in general, they just trew the ball to DD, Bargs or Lowry and waited.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:26 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Fuck sakes. I write one line about cousins in 100 and you go mental.

Don't tell me what I'm doing, I'm not looking at numbers. I'm telling you Pau plays the trianlge offense which we do not. And we can't. I'm telling you he plays with KOBE FUCKING BRYANT and his numbers look better than they would here. And you're being the biggest donkey ever right now if you think Gasol is our savour.

I wonder if you even watch sometimes.
i agree with most of what you say except i fundamentally disagree with the bolded part! playing with bryant certainly has NOT helped gasol!
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:52 PM   #87 (permalink)
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i agree with most of what you say except i fundamentally disagree with the bolded part! playing with bryant certainly has NOT helped gasol!
Beat me to it. From a numbers point, Gasol had better prior to Kobe and not much of a decline imo if you watched his recent play with Spain. Gasol was integral for Kobe to win. And Gasol was playing long before he learned the triangle which is moot. Besides, no one is saying Gasol is the Raps savior, at least from what I've read, but between Gasol and Bargs Ill take Gasol and run a lineup of LK/DD/AA/Ed/Gasol with Lucas/Ross/LF/Amir/JV coming off the bench and run the offense through KL and Pau (potentially good+ defense and offense). Thats one of the better, more balanced potential lineups in 10 years. Then I'd begin the transition of bringing JV and Ross up and looking for other players to add. TBH, as a GM id be all over that.

Personally, this team could use some championship experience and a real change of culture, have the guys learn from a great player who's been there and wouldn't complain about being in TO. Yes, JC doesn't complain but his and Bargs time is done with the Raps IMO, it's time to move on, get some value and start playing the way Casey would like - cant do that with those 2 still here.

JC and Bargs would be ideal for the Lakers and their current system with Dantoni IMO. Although in reality, the Lakers are gonna run that pony show till they know for sure Gasol can't work - if anyone can integrate all those parts it's Nash.

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:55 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Beat me to it. From a numbers point, Gasol had better prior to Kobe and not much of a decline imo if you watched his recent play with Spain. Gasol was integral for Kobe to win. And Gasol was playing long before he learned the triangle which is moot. Besides, no one is saying Gasol is the Raps savior, at least from what I've read, but between Gasol and Bargs Ill take Gasol and run a lineup of LK/DD/AA/Ed/Gasol with Lucas/Ross/LF/Amir/JV coming off the bench and run the offense through KL and Pau (potentially good+ defense and offense). Thats one of the better, more balanced potential lineups in 10 years. Then I'd begin the transition of bringing JV and Ross up and looking for other players to add. TBH, as a GM id be all over that.

Personally, this team could use some championship experience and a real change of culture, have the guys learn from a great player who's been there and wouldn't complain about being in TO. Yes, JC doesn't complain but his and Bargs time is done with the Raps IMO, it's time to move on, get some value and start playing the way Casey would like - cant do that with those 2 still here.

JC and Bargs would be ideal for the Lakers and their current system with Dantoni IMO. Although in reality, the Lakers are gonna run that pony show till they know for sure Gasol can't work - if anyone can integrate all those parts it's Nash.
Well said.

Also, if it doesn't work out he expires next season.
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:59 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Beat me to it. From a numbers point, Gasol had better prior to Kobe and not much of a decline imo if you watched his recent play with Spain. Gasol was integral for Kobe to win. And Gasol was playing long before he learned the triangle which is moot. Besides, no one is saying Gasol is the Raps savior, at least from what I've read, but between Gasol and Bargs Ill take Gasol and run a lineup of LK/DD/AA/Ed/Gasol with Lucas/Ross/LF/Amir/JV coming off the bench and run the offense through KL and Pau (potentially good+ defense and offense). Thats one of the better, more balanced potential lineups in 10 years. Then I'd begin the transition of bringing JV and Ross up and looking for other players to add. TBH, as a GM id be all over that.

Personally, this team could use some championship experience and a real change of culture, have the guys learn from a great player who's been there and wouldn't complain about being in TO. Yes, JC doesn't complain but his and Bargs time is done with the Raps IMO, it's time to move on, get some value and start playing the way Casey would like - cant do that with those 2 still here.

JC and Bargs would be ideal for the Lakers and their current system with Dantoni IMO. Although in reality, the Lakers are gonna run that pony show till they know for sure Gasol can't work - if anyone can integrate all those parts it's Nash.
wow, LK in the starting lineup??? and LK playing the point?? what kind of lineup is that????? unless the LK you're talking about isn't Linas Kleiza
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:23 PM   #90 (permalink)
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wow, LK in the starting lineup??? and LK playing the point?? what kind of lineup is that????? unless the LK you're talking about isn't Linas Kleiza
Means KL.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:04 PM   #91 (permalink)
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But Pau as been in decline for a couple of years now. I'd be happy to see Bargnani go, and could try to see how they could go forward with Pau, but mostly it seems like a high risk without so much of a high reward to go with it.
Pau's been pretty solid for the last 3 years before this one... not sure if I'd write him off as "declining" yet.

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Fuck sakes. I write one line about cousins in 100 and you go mental.

Don't tell me what I'm doing, I'm not looking at numbers. I'm telling you Pau plays the trianlge offense which we do not. And we can't. I'm telling you he plays with KOBE FUCKING BRYANT and his numbers look better than they would here. And you're being the biggest donkey ever right now if you think Gasol is our savour.

I wonder if you even watch sometimes.
Yes, I went mental... because your suggestion was idiotic. Cousins is an absolute cancer (regardless of his potential)... a PROVEN CANCER who's difficult to control at the best of times and you want to bring him here where we have a coach who's still learning and a young team without a strong veteran presence?

GREAT plan.

Pau is a great passer so yes, ANY offense which emphasizes passing will help his game... but at the end of the day he's a premiere PF. Has been for years. His last 2 years in MEM his numbers were actually pretty close to what they've been in L.A.... and guess what? They didn't use the triangle offense there! OMG!

I also LOL'd at Kobe Bryant "helping" Pau's game... please... if anything it was the other way around.

Gasol isn't a saviour. He's not going to make this team a title contender.

What he WILL do is make this a playoff team, bring some leadership and experience in and give us A LEGIT POST PRESENCE WHICH WE DON'T HAVE. Figured I'd capitalize that since you continue to ignore that key point.

Ed and Amir cannot be relied upon to get you 20pts/night. You can't give them the ball late in games in the post and ask them to create something.

These are things that Pau (or any star PF) can do.

Get it?
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:04 PM   #92 (permalink)
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^Pretty solid doesn't really make it that worthwhile. It might be the best we can do, but with the knees and the contract, I would hope we would look at ther options.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:34 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Given Bargnani's injury and Nash's successful return, I think a Gasol to the Raptors trade is probably dead, assuming it was ever a real possibility. It made sense in theory, so long as Nash was out of the lineup and the Lakers desperately needed a PG and desired a stretch 4. Things have changed. The Lakers are going to be fine. They've won 4 in a row and don't need to trade with us.

Might as well move on and debate other trade possibilities, dudes.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:17 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Given Bargnani's injury and Nash's successful return, I think a Gasol to the Raptors trade is probably dead, assuming it was ever a real possibility. It made sense in theory, so long as Nash was out of the lineup and the Lakers desperately needed a PG and desired a stretch 4. Things have changed. The Lakers are going to be fine. They've won 4 in a row and don't need to trade with us.

Might as well move on and debate other trade possibilities, dudes.


Successful return? It was one game and they barely won.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:04 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Successful return? It was one game and they barely won.
lol
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:10 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Let's not forget that Jose + Bargs would make them younger and you can't just write off Jose's importance for that team. Hypothetically you could play Nash around 30 mpg with Jose playing the rest, maybe a little more - about 20 mpg. That would be huge and Jose > than any of their other pgs. Also, Nash is quite old and for once under a MikeD coached team he'd have a legitimate backup who could spell him out sometimes. SAS had 3 stars and spectacular depth which helped keep their main guys a little fresher for the postseason.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:09 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Pau's been pretty solid for the last 3 years before this one... not sure if I'd write him off as "declining" yet.



Yes, I went mental... because your suggestion was idiotic. Cousins is an absolute cancer (regardless of his potential)... a PROVEN CANCER who's difficult to control at the best of times and you want to bring him here where we have a coach who's still learning and a young team without a strong veteran presence?

GREAT plan.

Pau is a great passer so yes, ANY offense which emphasizes passing will help his game... but at the end of the day he's a premiere PF. Has been for years. His last 2 years in MEM his numbers were actually pretty close to what they've been in L.A.... and guess what? They didn't use the triangle offense there! OMG!

I also LOL'd at Kobe Bryant "helping" Pau's game... please... if anything it was the other way around.

Gasol isn't a saviour. He's not going to make this team a title contender.

What he WILL do is make this a playoff team, bring some leadership and experience in and give us A LEGIT POST PRESENCE WHICH WE DON'T HAVE. Figured I'd capitalize that since you continue to ignore that key point.

Ed and Amir cannot be relied upon to get you 20pts/night. You can't give them the ball late in games in the post and ask them to create something.

These are things that Pau (or any star PF) can do.

Get it?
You can't possible be this obtuse.

It wasn't a plan, it was a point that he's the most talented player currently available.. "SADLY". But then again you know what I meant, you just chose to ignore what people type, twist their words and argue pointlessly about minutiae.... again and agan.

And no I don't get it. You want to improve the position we might be best at by getting a 19 million dollar 32 year old with bad knees because we would "make the playoffs" before sucking again. Ok ... well.. at least youre on the same page as a lot of GMs we've had here.

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Old 12-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Successful return? It was one game and they barely won.
Did Nash look like he lost a step? No. Successful return. GS is a solid team. Any road win against a solid team is a good win. Successful return.

Yeah, it was one game though. You're right. So, if he gets injured again, start your debates again. But I honestly think this trade option is off-the-table for a while, if it was ever there in the first place.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I have a feeling the Lakers are going to beat the Knicks today. The GS game was two games within a game. The Lakers were starting to look really good near the end of the game, like a different team during the 4th Q and overtime.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:03 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Did Nash look like he lost a step? No. Successful return. GS is a solid team. Any road win against a solid team is a good win. Successful return.

Yeah, it was one game though. You're right. So, if he gets injured again, start your debates again. But I honestly think this trade option is off-the-table for a while, if it was ever there in the first place.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I have a feeling the Lakers are going to beat the Knicks today. The GS game was two games within a game. The Lakers were starting to look really good near the end of the game, like a different team during the 4th Q and overtime.
That has been their pattern for a while now. They mount comebacks in the 4th, usually too little too late, and proving to be unable to get it done defensively in order to get the win, and really the GSW game should have followed the same path. The defense was not at all impressive, and the Warriors missed layups, and fumbled away unforced turnovers that looked like easy baskets, while shooting way too many threes, especially Curry. They choked and gifted one to the Lakers.

But I don't think the Lakers need more defensively challenged players, particularly when guys like Hill and Peace are playing good two-way games, and ultimately made that last win possible. They are a team with multiple personalities instead of a true identity, but I don't see where Jose and Andrea reinforces much of anything. They'd just cause more of a muddle to work through.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:08 AM   #100 (permalink)
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That has been their pattern for a while now. They mount comebacks in the 4th, usually too little too late, and proving to be unable to get it done defensively in order to get the win, and really the GSW game should have followed the same path. The defense was not at all impressive, and the Warriors missed layups, and fumbled away unforced turnovers that looked like easy baskets, while shooting way too many threes, especially Curry. They choked and gifted one to the Lakers.

But I don't think the Lakers need more defensively challenged players, particularly when guys like Hill and Peace are playing good two-way games, and ultimately made that last win possible. They are a team with multiple personalities instead of a true identity, but I don't see where Jose and Andrea reinforces much of anything. They'd just cause more of a muddle to work through.
More reason to think this trade won't happen. Mitch-K is not a doofus; he knows what his team needs and doesn't need.

BTW, what you're saying about the defensive is borne out statistically. The Lakers offense is fine compared to the rest of the league. They're 6th in O-Rating and score plenty. Their defense is terribly average. And, frankly, I think part of that is just integrating new players and D12 being hurt. Dwight is not 100%.

Anyway, getting off topic. The point is, Jose and Bargnani are definitely not the ideal value for Gasol (mostly because of Bargnani), when the Lakers offense is only getting better recently.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 12-25-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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