www.si.com - more Bargs Trade rumors and speculations - Page 4
Old 12-22-2012, 06:55 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Toronto Receives : C- Varejo, SF- Gee,SF- Walton
Los Angeles Reveives: PF- Bargnani, SG- Gibson
Cleveland Receives: C- Gasol, SG- Fields

Approved On NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

The Skinny: Toronto takes on the remainder of Walton's 6 Million contract but he's an expiring. LA gets younger and some shooters. Cleveland gets a solid low post big to compliment Irving. May have a better system for Fields as well.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:30 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Lmao... so you would rather hvae Gsaol at 19 million then Ed Davis at 3 million. You must be high.
Hehe that is funny...c'mon, you just compared Ed to Pau? Though he's a franchise player at the back end of his contract, he can still score/rebound/pass and have the offense run through him effectively. At 32, and his style of play he could play for another 10 years - gotta love modern medicine. Ed has a long way to go, if he even comes close to the play of Pau - and I'm not referring to just ppg or rpg.

Besides, IMO for Pau to effective, he should be at the 5 and Ed at the 4 - JV could start still and get a lot of minutes at the 5 with the second unit - there is a lot both Ed and JV could learn from Pau.

IF a deal comes up for Pau, you take IMO. So much he could do for the team.

Imo though, I could see the Lakers trying to hold onto Pau and have him as a back-up to Dwight: unless Dantoni changes his system of 1 in the post and 4 on the perimeter I can't see Pau being effective with the starters. Besides, having Pau as a back-up to Dwight would be an absolute nightmare for other teams - on paper anyways. If it doesn't work or the Lakers struggle then I can see Pau moving and possibly to the Raps - but, imo, not cause the Lakers want Bargs, it would be because of JC. Trading 1 great player for 2 above average players (esp JC) would give the Lakers so much depth on their 2nd unit - it would be problematic for other teams - again though, on paper.

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Old 12-22-2012, 12:06 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Toronto Out: Bargnani
Toronto In: Chandler, Mozgov

Denver Out: Chandler,Mozgov,Fournier
Denver In: Henderson,Thomas

Charlotte Out: Thomas,Henderson
Charlotte In: Bargnani,Fournier

Approved On NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

Recap: Raps get 2 players for Bargs(a SF and an expiring big). Denver gets some additional bench scoring in Henderson. Charlotte gets a good scoring big and young SG prospect in exchange for an expiring and bad contract.
Yes, please, but Charlotte will laugh at this proposal.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:16 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Some people look at players like at an abstract combination of stats. They think math rules apply.
Pau not only would suck at Toronto, he'd break the chemistry of the team, even if Jose stays. Jose will try to accommodate Pau and you can forget the ball movement.
We're finally playing good basketball, improving. We have a PG, who we run the plays through (controversial, I know) very successfully, and people wanna fantasize about a new PF that we should run plays through instead. They miss turn over feast by Bosh. WTF?
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:55 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Lmao... so you would rather hvae Gsaol at 19 million then Ed Davis at 3 million. You must be high.
Ha. Know what this reminds me of?

The arguments that were going on in regards to Bosh and Bargs when Bosh was here. People were arguing that "Bargs was a better deal at $10M/yr than Bosh would have been at a max contract."

How'd that work out?

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Originally Posted by moujik View Post
Some people look at players like at an abstract combination of stats. They think math rules apply.
Pau not only would suck at Toronto, he'd break the chemistry of the team, even if Jose stays. Jose will try to accommodate Pau and you can forget the ball movement.
We're finally playing good basketball, improving. We have a PG, who we run the plays through (controversial, I know) very successfully, and people wanna fantasize about a new PF that we should run plays through instead. They miss turn over feast by Bosh. WTF?
I miss Bosh's 20 & 10 every night.

Oh yeah.. and Bosh CAREER TOs are 2.1/gm. Lulz.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 12-22-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:09 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Hehe that is funny...c'mon, you just compared Ed to Pau? Though he's a franchise player at the back end of his contract, he can still score/rebound/pass and have the offense run through him effectively. At 32, and his style of play he could play for another 10 years - gotta love modern medicine. Ed has a long way to go, if he even comes close to the play of Pau - and I'm not referring to just ppg or rpg.

Besides, IMO for Pau to effective, he should be at the 5 and Ed at the 4 - JV could start still and get a lot of minutes at the 5 with the second unit - there is a lot both Ed and JV could learn from Pau.

IF a deal comes up for Pau, you take IMO. So much he could do for the team.

Imo though, I could see the Lakers trying to hold onto Pau and have him as a back-up to Dwight: unless Dantoni changes his system of 1 in the post and 4 on the perimeter I can't see Pau being effective with the starters. Besides, having Pau as a back-up to Dwight would be an absolute nightmare for other teams - on paper anyways. If it doesn't work or the Lakers struggle then I can see Pau moving and possibly to the Raps - but, imo, not cause the Lakers want Bargs, it would be because of JC. Trading 1 great player for 2 above average players (esp JC) would give the Lakers so much depth on their 2nd unit - it would be problematic for other teams - again though, on paper.
Readinging comprehension problems? I compared Ed at 3 million as far better value that Pau at 19.

Pau is a better scorer and passer
ED is a better defender
ED is his equal as a shot blocker and rebounder already
ED will be here for years at low cost
Pau will be here for 2 at a massive cap hit.

Taking on an anchor like Pau's salary should only be done if this team is going to be competetive because we will not be able to do a damn thing cap-wise for the entire 2 years if we take on Gasol. He will make us maginally better in the short term and we will be screwed in the long term. And ED goes to the bench and we becomes redundant.

And Gasol is not backing up Dwight, he's playing PF like he did with Bynum. And Pau playing centre here makes even less sense.

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Old 12-22-2012, 01:14 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moujik View Post
Some people look at players like at an abstract combination of stats. They think math rules apply.
Pau not only would suck at Toronto, he'd break the chemistry of the team, even if Jose stays. Jose will try to accommodate Pau and you can forget the ball movement.
We're finally playing good basketball, improving. We have a PG, who we run the plays through (controversial, I know) very successfully, and people wanna fantasize about a new PF that we should run plays through instead. They miss turn over feast by Bosh. WTF?
What is this 'New PF' you speak of? I'm sure you're aware he played center with the Grizzlies and though he's listed as a 4 with the Lakers he was most effective as a 5, helps that Bynum was out for the first title and Gasol / Bynum took turns to come off the bench as a 5 for the next championship until they needed him to start as a 5. Since then I'm sure you've watched Gasol struggle to play with Bynum as the 5 and now Howard at the 5. Dantoni really is the wrong coach for the Lakers current frontcourt.

As a FYI, if the Raps were to trade for Gasol, there would be no JC showing preferential treatment to Gasol since he would be on the Lakers.

Chemistry, yes, let's not break the chemistry to improve for the future. Besides, chemistry can be improved if players are integrated properly.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:39 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Readinging comprehension problems? I compared Ed at 3 million as far better value that Pau at 19.

Pau is a better scorer and passer
ED is a better defender
ED is his equal as a shot blocker and rebounder already
ED will be here for years at low cost
Pau will be here for 2 at a massive cap hit.

Taking on an anchor like Pau's salary should only be done if this team is going to be competetive because we will not be able to do a damn thing cap-wise for the entire 2 years if we take on Gasol. He will make us maginally better in the short term and we will be screwed in the long term. And ED goes to the bench and we becomes redundant.

And Gasol is not backing up Dwight, he's playing PF like he did with Bynum. And Pau playing centre here makes even less sense.
Yes apparently you do have some, but that's ok, I've heard Sylvan Learning can help with that.

As for Ed, wouldn't go to the bench since he's a 4 and Gasol plays like a 5 - if anyone heads to the bench it would be JV - good fucking gawd, it's like listening to how great Bargs is after his 13 games. Ed is ok and is showing potential this year but he has a way to go.

Gasol would make us marginally better? Totally disagree on that.

You mean to say Gasol is a starter for the Lakers as a 4? When the fuck did that happen? I know he's a 4 but he can't function effectively as a 4 with a traditional 5 on the floor at the same time. The Lakers were at their most dangerous when Gasol played on the second unit as a 5 with Odom playing as a stretch 4. When Bynum was hurt he moved to the starting 5 as a center and again, was extremely effective.

I'm not actually advocating a trade for Gasol, what I'm saying is it certainly wouldn't be the worst player that this team could trade for.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:43 PM   #69 (permalink)
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As a FYI, if the Raps were to trade for Gasol, there would be no JC showing preferential treatment to Gasol since he would be on the Lakers.

Chemistry, yes, let's not break the chemistry to improve for the future. Besides, chemistry can be improved if players are integrated properly.
Pau at 5, Bargnani at 4 and our future is set!
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:03 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Ha. Know what this reminds me of?

The arguments that were going on in regards to Bosh and Bargs when Bosh was here. People were arguing that "Bargs was a better deal at $10M/yr than Bosh would have been at a max contract."

How'd that work out?
No. That's nothing like it. And it doesn't remind me of that and its only you. As always is with lots of your posts...just change the subject and keep arguing.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:07 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Yes apparently you do have some
i stopped reading after you said "no you are".
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:20 AM   #72 (permalink)
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No. That's nothing like it. And it doesn't remind me of that and its only you. As always is with lots of your posts...just change the subject and keep arguing.
Really? You don't see the parallel?

Because I thought that it was a fairly obvious one.

I'll be more than happy to get back to the subject at hand though.... Pau is a better player than Ed. FAR better. If this team is going to try to make the playoffs and compete in the near future then they need another RELIABLE scoring option. And someone with actual championship experience always helps.

If this team ISN'T concerned with the playoffs and just wants to play young guys then deal Jose, deal Lowry, deal Bargs and just play the young guys all you want. Unfortunately we probably won't have a pick to look forward to so I don't see much point in that.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:27 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Really? You don't see the parallel?

Because I thought that it was a fairly obvious one.

I'll be more than happy to get back to the subject at hand though....
The subject at hand is... is Gasol 16 million dollars better than Davis. Tell me you beleive Gasol is a max dollar player. I could draw a comparison between Gasol and JO that's more relevant.

And about the rest of the logic; you think if we get gasol and don't have a pick mext year we will content for years then right?

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Old 12-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #74 (permalink)
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i stopped reading after you said "no you are".


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The subject at hand is... is Gasol 16 million dollars better than Davis. Tell me you beleive Gasol is a max dollar player. I could draw a comparison between Gasol and JO that's more relevant.

And about the rest of the logic; you think if we get gasol and don't have a pick mext year we will content for years then right?
The discussion really is moot at this point, your comparisons of first Gasol and Davis and now Gasol and JO have some merit but they're coming at the wrong time in their careers. Davis is beginning his career and JO was well past due to injuries, Gasol is at the back end of his prime and still has a lot to offer - not like he's dependent on his athleticism to be effective. At some point the Raps have to be attractive enough for top FA's, with no picks right now and little chance to trade for a high level player ( till at least feb anyways) the Raps are seemingly stuck in this cycle.

I agree with TORap, "finding that player in a bad situation and acquiring them..." appears to be the best way to go.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:43 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I agree with TORap, "finding that player in a bad situation and acquiring them..." appears to be the best way to go.
You should try with Bargnani so
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:16 AM   #76 (permalink)
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You should try with Bargnani so
100%
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #77 (permalink)
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The discussion really is moot at this point, your comparisons of first Gasol and Davis and now Gasol and JO have some merit but they're coming at the wrong time in their careers. Davis is beginning his career and JO was well past due to injuries, Gasol is at the back end of his prime and still has a lot to offer - not like he's dependent on his athleticism to be effective. At some point the Raps have to be attractive enough for top FA's, with no picks right now and little chance to trade for a high level player ( till at least feb anyways) the Raps are seemingly stuck in this cycle.

I agree with TORap, "finding that player in a bad situation and acquiring them..." appears to be the best way to go.
THIS is what it's all about TBH. This franchise has been a joke for a while now. A place where players go to pad their stats or get paid. Winning has been a secondary concern because no one seems to take the Raptors seriously.

With Pau, Lowry and DD here as a core you have a couple of guys who have playoff experience and a guy who has played a BIG part in winning NBA titles. That's huge.

You can't just keep running young guys out there, hoping that they get better and gel into a title contender. Unless you're extremely lucky (OKC) that rarely works.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:25 PM   #78 (permalink)
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The discussion really is moot at this point, your comparisons of first Gasol and Davis and now Gasol and JO have some merit but they're coming at the wrong time in their careers. Davis is beginning his career and JO was well past due to injuries, Gasol is at the back end of his prime and still has a lot to offer - not like he's dependent on his athleticism to be effective. At some point the Raps have to be attractive enough for top FA's, with no picks right now and little chance to trade for a high level player ( till at least feb anyways) the Raps are seemingly stuck in this cycle.

I agree with TORap, "finding that player in a bad situation and acquiring them..." appears to be the best way to go.

OMG. I compared JO to Gasol because they both were paid about 20 million, their best days way behind them and they both were coming off nasty injuries. And it was a quick comment, that's it. It does not matter what point they are in their careers. I'm saying Ed Davis TODAY is more valuable at 3 million than Gasol at 19 million TODAY. Period. $ per point/rebound/etc. And in a capped league you have to think like that. I'm saying we have gaping holes all over 'the roster and filling the only spot where we don't have huge problems and have a future with Ed (and even Amir) is just stupid. Hell... lets just ignore SF. Maybe we should trade Bargnani for another point guard?

As some point the raps have to be attractive to free agents? So we go over the cap with Gasol, and max out completely, so don't have any cap room so we can sign free agents.. without cap room. Gotcha.

Guys... Gasol is not going to fix this team. Its going to take alot more than that and the problem is SF and time.

C - JV - We have a future. No depth and JV is average or below average (not for the point of his career, just against the league). JV has skill be he needs time.
PF - Davis, Amir (yes Amir should be the other PF). We have skill and depth but Davis needs time.
SF - We have depth and no starter. Could be that AA ends up a star, but we HAD gaping holes there until he returned we have nothing but below average bench players with MP and Kleiza and some salary baggage with Kleiza. Overhaul the position and keep AA as the back-up.
SG - DD, Ross - We have an average starter (now, and DD IS average against the league of SF) and we have depth and a future in Ross. We have nothing but salary baggage in Feilds.
PG - We have what's turned out to be an awesome PG right now, and a guy we never should have traded for. Do we have a future? If Lowry learns how to stop gambling and share the ball better yes. If he doesn't... we are fucked since we are losing or trading Calderon no matter what.

We are basically average to below average at every position. At the end of the day... Bargnani has to go. Period. Which is why I didn't include him above. If we could get a defensive centre to back-up JV or a starting SF, or upgrade at starting SG/Combo guard or get a defensive star at any position, it would be better than getting a PF like Gasol.

And the worst part about Gasol's effectiveness is that we do not and CANNOT play the triangle offense because we don't have a great SF or SG like Kobe, which makes his skills much less useful.

And as for the crybaby comment.... I don't really think I'm missing alot not reading most of the blah blah ... but if your combacks were better than "no you are" it might make it more intersting to read so I went back to it just for you.

And PS Gasol started at PF last night and only switched to C because Hoaward was in foul trouble from the first minute. He's going to play PF only when Hoawrd and the Lakers are running good.

Our best option for a good player in a bad spot might be DeMarcus Cousins sadly.

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Old 12-23-2012, 07:00 PM   #79 (permalink)
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OMG. I compared JO to Gasol because they both were paid about 20 million, their best days way behind them and they both were coming off nasty injuries. And it was a quick comment, that's it. It does not matter what point they are in their careers. I'm saying Ed Davis TODAY is more valuable at 3 million than Gasol at 19 million TODAY. Period. $ per point/rebound/etc. And in a capped league you have to think like that. I'm saying we have gaping holes all over 'the roster and filling the only spot where we don't have huge problems and have a future with Ed (and even Amir) is just stupid. Hell... lets just ignore SF. Maybe we should trade Bargnani for another point guard?

As some point the raps have to be attractive to free agents? So we go over the cap with Gasol, and max out completely, so don't have any cap room so we can sign free agents.. without cap room. Gotcha.

Guys... Gasol is not going to fix this team. Its going to take alot more than that and the problem is SF and time.

C - JV - We have a future. No depth and JV is average or below average (not for the point of his career, just against the league). JV has skill be he needs time.
PF - Davis, Amir (yes Amir should be the other PF). We have skill and depth but Davis needs time.
SF - We have depth and no starter. Could be that AA ends up a star, but we HAD gaping holes there until he returned we have nothing but below average bench players with MP and Kleiza and some salary baggage with Kleiza. Overhaul the position and keep AA as the back-up.
SG - DD, Ross - We have an average starter (now, and DD IS average against the league of SF) and we have depth and a future in Ross. We have nothing but salary baggage in Feilds.
PG - We have what's turned out to be an awesome PG right now, and a guy we never should have traded for. Do we have a future? If Lowry learns how to stop gambling and share the ball better yes. If he doesn't... we are fucked since we are losing or trading Calderon no matter what.

We are basically average to below average at every position. At the end of the day... Bargnani has to go. Period. Which is why I didn't include him above. If we could get a defensive centre to back-up JV or a starting SF, or upgrade at starting SG/Combo guard or get a defensive star at any position, it would be better than getting a PF like Gasol.

And the worst part about Gasol's effectiveness is that we do not and CANNOT play the triangle offense because we don't have a great SF or SG like Kobe, which makes his skills much less useful.

And as for the crybaby comment.... I don't really think I'm missing alot not reading most of the blah blah ... but if your combacks were better than "no you are" it might make it more intersting to read so I went back to it just for you.

And PS Gasol started at PF last night and only switched to C because Hoaward was in foul trouble from the first minute. He's going to play PF only when Hoawrd and the Lakers are running good.

Our best option for a good player in a bad spot might be DeMarcus Cousins sadly.
SAK would want Ross or JonasV in any deal for Cousins.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:58 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Our best option for a good player in a bad spot might be DeMarcus Cousins sadly.
You would want Cousins..... over Gasol?

Might work out in fantasy leagues. There's no way in HELL I'd ever do it in real life though.

You're just looking at things from a pure numbers standpoint and not factoring in the entire picture.

Pau is a good guy and a smart player. He's also a savvy vet who doesn't rely on athleticism to get his game off.

"We wouldn't be able to utilize his skills?" Huh? Have you not seen our interior passing over the last 5 games?

Gasol would be an IDEAL guy to bring in to firm up the front line, give us a post presence, mentor the young guys and work off of DD and Lowry.

You can't get much better than that. And as well as Ed has played.... he's not a premiere PF. Pau is.
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