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Old 12-20-2012, 04:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Regarding Bargnani: He's a lot more attractive to teams in a larger package with Calderon. That's the Lakers, that is. We have to really see how things go there with Nash and Gasol. We could become the big beneficiaries in the sense that we get a good return of assets from a third team. I can see Minny's Williams, Ridnour, and Pekovic coming our way.

I wouldn't trade Bargnani alone if we're getting a bad player and contract in return. I think Bargnani's value is still at a point where we might be able to pull off a three team trade with LA/Minny down the road. We could get Stoudemire for him, not that I'm saying we should given his contract. But I would strongly consider it, if they add young assets in Copeland and Shumpert and take one of our more onerous contracts (Fields). Bargnani would be a great sixth man for the Knicks. There's still a lot of possibilities out there. We could then subsequently trade Calderon for another player. If Calderon continues to play like he is, his value is only going to get higher.
I doubt Shumpert and Copeland are going anywhere - especially Shumpert - both are good parts for their future and I highly doubt they take back a player(Fields) they just let walk a few months ago (the reason they let him walk is still the same reason today). As for 6th man? Well Amare would be a much better 6th man than Bargs. Until the NY shows Amare/Melo can't coexist and Amare refuses to come off the bench, that trade is made of stuff for dreams, of course I would love it but I tend to stay a little more realistic. You never know but still.

It's puzzling sometimes how fans can create something great with something little, Bargs/JC for Amare/Shumpert/Copeland? Really? Grunwald would be executed in the streets of NY before the ink dried on that trade.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Bargs and Jose for tyreke Evans and their first round pick.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Bargs and Jose for tyreke Evans and their first round pick.
tweener that can't shoot and has a knee injury...nahhhh
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I changed my mind: YES to Gasol, he can play PF and he does play PF.

Lowry
DeRozan
Kleiza
Gasol
Valanciunas

How great would that be!!! And it wouldn't hurt our depth either

Lucas / ?
Ross / ?
Allan Almighty / Fields / Pietrus
Davis
Johnson / Gray
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I doubt Shumpert and Copeland are going anywhere - especially Shumpert - both are good parts for their future and I highly doubt they take back a player(Fields) they just let walk a few months ago (the reason they let him walk is still the same reason today). As for 6th man? Well Amare would be a much better 6th man than Bargs. Until the NY shows Amare/Melo can't coexist and Amare refuses to come off the bench, that trade is made of stuff for dreams, of course I would love it but I tend to stay a little more realistic. You never know but still.

It's puzzling sometimes how fans can create something great with something little, Bargs/JC for Amare/Shumpert/Copeland? Really? Grunwald would be executed in the streets of NY before the ink dried on that trade.
I simply attached a prerequisite for acquiring Stoudermire, which for me, would be some young assets. That's not saying Grunwald would be willing to give them up. I wouldn’t characterize it as farfetched and i'll explain why shortly. Salaries/health included, Bargs would no question be the better sixth man. The Hawks got rid of Johnson who really didn’t have any health concerns for just expiring contracts and a pick. Stoudermire is not as valuable. They’re playing their best basketball without Stoudermire and he’s likely to be coming off the bench, which he said he would be willing to do. I don’t know of too many teams that have a sixth man that’s due 20, 22, and then 23.5 million dollars in the coming years. The luxury tax is only going to become more punitive and with the current contracts plus extensions to players like Copeland and others, they’re definitely looking at a hefty bill. Factor in the penalty for “repeat offenders,” and it could get a lot worse. Shumpert is definitely an excellent defender but still hasn’t come back from injury. We still don’t know what Copeland’s going to become yet. We don’t even know how Stoudermire’s going to perform off the bench. His value might even decline further if he demands a trade or underperforms. With his injuries and contract taken into account, who knows how many seasons let alone games we actually get out of him in the next 3 years. Would I really want to be paying Amare that kind of dough with all the other mediocrity we have? God forbid Amare’s career is cut short in year 2, and we’re left with a terrible contract, no young pieces, and no cap room. Colangelo or whatevers left of him would be executed via the guillotine in the streets of Toronto, if he took Stoudermire straight up for Bargnani. I, for one, would certainly not be willing to take that kind of risk without taking back some young pieces. Does that mean NY would do it? No. But that would definitely be a precondition for me to enter into negotiations

Last edited by Raptors1995; 12-20-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I changed my mind: YES to Gasol, he can play PF and he does play PF.

Lowry
DeRozan
Kleiza
Gasol
Valanciunas

How great would that be!!! And it wouldn't hurt our depth either

Lucas / ?
Ross / ?
Allan Almighty / Fields / Pietrus
Davis
Johnson / Gray
Only catch is, Gasol is most effective in the paint and operating out of it like a 5 - hence the issue with Bynum and now Howard. IF JV plays a traditional type center role this team will end up having the same issue as the Lakers did, or regress JV.

If the team did get Gasol then maybe a line of:

Lowry/DD/AA/ED/Gasol, with Lucas/Ross/LF/Amir/JV

Still, what jumps out to me is the SF position again. IMO AA would be ideal as a back-up, so is LK and LF. Still a BIG BIG hole. Also, not a lot of 3's there to space the floor - though it seems no one likes/appreciates JC/AB, both were the means for the team to space on offense and with Gasol that need will become glaring. Sooner than later other teams will smother AA on defense so this team NEEDS KL to stop shooting bricks on 3's and LF to start hitting something from the distance (at least more than the rim, if it makes it that far).
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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tweener that can't shoot and has a knee injury...nahhhh
Are you kidding? That deal would still be a huge steal for us. Their first comes aswell.

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Old 12-20-2012, 06:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Are you kidding? That deal would still be a huge steal for us. They're first comes aswell.
I'd rather keep Jose than have Evans right now.........ok maybe not.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Holiday, trade for Gasol is still better option than letting Jose go for free after season. And John Lucas the Third would be a career killer for JV if Valanciunas started of a bench
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Bargnani won't get us a draft pick. He is a bad contract. The thing that's overlooked with Bargs is just how much he gets paid. 11 mil in 2013-2014 and 12 mil in 2014-2015. Players who make that much are usually near all-stars. It would be much easier to trade Bargs if he was paid 7-8 mil a year.

My guess is the guy BC wants is Derrick Williams. Replacing Bargs with Williams is a good fit PR wise. Former #2 pick, only 21, hasn't gotten a shot yet at legitimate starting PF minutes.

MIN isn't doing Williams for Bargs though so a 3rd team would have to be involved. Maybe something like DEN getting Bargs for W Chandler, MIN doing Williams for W Chandler (and Toronto gives them 2 2nds), and Toronto flipping Bargs and 2 2nds for Williams
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:30 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Holiday, trade for Gasol is still better option than letting Jose go for free after season. And John Lucas the Third would be a career killer for JV if Valanciunas started of a bench
Points I completely agree with. I also still think JC would be a great trade chip, just my thinking that Gasol wouldnt be the best option for the Raps with how the team is constructed.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Bargnani won't get us a draft pick. He is a bad contract. The thing that's overlooked with Bargs is just how much he gets paid. 11 mil in 2013-2014 and 12 mil in 2014-2015. Players who make that much are usually near all-stars. It would be much easier to trade Bargs if he was paid 7-8 mil a year.

My guess is the guy BC wants is Derrick Williams. Replacing Bargs with Williams is a good fit PR wise. Former #2 pick, only 21, hasn't gotten a shot yet at legitimate starting PF minutes.

MIN isn't doing Williams for Bargs though so a 3rd team would have to be involved. Maybe something like DEN getting Bargs for W Chandler, MIN doing Williams for W Chandler (and Toronto gives them 2 2nds), and Toronto flipping Bargs and 2 2nds for Williams
I'm curious why you think Denver would want Bargs more than Minny?

Minny lacks bigs. The T-Wolves might actually want another big for their rotation. Sure, Bargs's salary might seem shitty when he is not producing, but Roy's contract is dead-weight on the Minny payroll (assuming it is guaranteed). So, Williams + Roy for Bargnani softens the blow of the cap hit.

We own a Sacramento 2nd rounder from the James Johnson trade. It will probably be in the 35-38 range. We could throw that in.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I changed my mind: YES to Gasol, he can play PF and he does play PF.

Lowry
DeRozan
Kleiza
Gasol
Valanciunas

How great would that be!!! And it wouldn't hurt our depth either

Lucas / ?
Ross / ?
Allan Almighty / Fields / Pietrus
Davis
Johnson / Gray
Gasol would play centre and Ed Davis would start at PF. Watch what you wish for because Davis is playing better than anyone and he's not going to the bench. It's laughable how many people in this forum keep either wanting Davis on the bench or propose trades with him involved.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:43 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm curious why you think Denver would want Bargs more than Minny?

Minny lacks bigs. The T-Wolves might actually want another big for their rotation. Sure, Bargs's salary might seem shitty when he is not producing, but Roy's contract is dead-weight on the Minny payroll (assuming it is guaranteed). So, Williams + Roy for Bargnani softens the blow of the cap hit.

We own a Sacramento 2nd rounder from the James Johnson trade. It will probably be in the 35-38 range. We could throw that in.
That is a trade Ill consider if I was mini, and we can try Williams at SF. Like Ed there was speculations whether his size would be too small in the NBA for PF, as was Sullinger and he's doing well with Boston. To sweeten the deal we should ask for a 1st rounder too

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Gasol would play centre and Ed Davis would start at PF. Watch what you wish for because Davis is playing better than anyone and he's not going to the bench. It's laughable how many people in this forum keep either wanting Davis on the bench or propose trades with him involved.
Not so much proposing to involve Ed in a trade deal, but the Gasol whom we are rumoured to get will either make JV or Ed come off the bench. However with his Laker days everyone says that he is a 7foot PF which could mean that Ed will be once again coming off the bench. Overall, I dont think we need Gasol or he would make this team much better. In order to get him well have to trade Calderon and Bargnani to make it work with his $19mil this year with 2 years left.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:29 PM   #35 (permalink)
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JJ Redick is on the block? Get that shit done BC
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:35 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Bargnani won't get us a draft pick. He is a bad contract. The thing that's overlooked with Bargs is just how much he gets paid. 11 mil in 2013-2014 and 12 mil in 2014-2015. Players who make that much are usually near all-stars. It would be much easier to trade Bargs if he was paid 7-8 mil a year.

My guess is the guy BC wants is Derrick Williams. Replacing Bargs with Williams is a good fit PR wise. Former #2 pick, only 21, hasn't gotten a shot yet at legitimate starting PF minutes.

MIN isn't doing Williams for Bargs though so a 3rd team would have to be involved. Maybe something like DEN getting Bargs for W Chandler, MIN doing Williams for W Chandler (and Toronto gives them 2 2nds), and Toronto flipping Bargs and 2 2nds for Williams
Minnesota is apparently interested in Gasol so i still think a Minnesota/Toronto/LAL deal could be possible where we get Williams + Pekovic + filler. Minnesota would have to move a higher priced player though because the salaries would be nowhere close to matching. The guy that makes the most sense would be Kevin Love??
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:40 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Not so much proposing to involve Ed in a trade deal, but the Gasol whom we are rumoured to get will either make JV or Ed come off the bench. However with his Laker days everyone says that he is a 7foot PF which could mean that Ed will be once again coming off the bench. Overall, I dont think we need Gasol or he would make this team much better. In order to get him well have to trade Calderon and Bargnani to make it work with his $19mil this year with 2 years left.
Huh?

Pau is good.... REALLY good. Still one of the best PFs in the game. We just lost one in Bosh 3 years ago... if we have a chance to pick up another while dumping Bargs that is INCREDIBLY fortunate and I'd be pretty upset if we didn't make that happen.

Lowry, Pau and DD would give us 3 legit scoring options... one of them being a reliable low-post threat that we've been lacking.

EDIT: I'd definitely deal with Minnesota too though if the pieces were right.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:59 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Minnesota is apparently interested in Gasol so i still think a Minnesota/Toronto/LAL deal could be possible where we get Williams + Pekovic + filler. Minnesota would have to move a higher priced player though because the salaries would be nowhere close to matching. The guy that makes the most sense would be Kevin Love??
Absolutely fucking not. It makes the least sense to include Kevin Love, and pushes the salary higher than necessary if they are also sending out Pekovic and Williams.

If Minny was going to take Gasol, they could send out Williams, Pekovic, Brandon Roy and one of either Ridnour or Barea. That would be enough to match salary.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Absolutely fucking not. It makes the least sense to include Kevin Love, and pushes the salary higher than necessary if they are also sending out Pekovic and Williams.
Obviously they wouldn't send out all three. lol


Lakers: Calderon, Bargnani

Minnesota: Gasol

Toronto: Love, Ridnour
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Obviously they wouldn't send out all three. lol


Lakers: Calderon, Bargnani

Minnesota: Gasol

Toronto: Love, Ridnour
Huge fan of both Love and Ridnour, Luke is one of the most underrated guys around, would be awesome to see them with the Raps, that being said there's no way the T-Wolves move Love for Gasol straight up, we'd have to move them another piece as well. Maybe Ross/Davis or more.. but Love would be so worth it.
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