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-   -   Would you support a full rebuild? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/would-you-support-full-rebuild-24287.html)

Claudius 12-14-2012 08:09 AM

Would you support a full rebuild?
 
The expectations of this squad was advancement and even some movement towards the playoffs. Obviously there are some holes in this plan.

I think whenever you're building a team, you have to ask, is it a team that has parts to win a championship in the next 5 years. Right now, looking at this team, there's only one guy I can see playing a significant and key role on a championship team.

However, that also mean's we have some pieces that are pieces on a good team but not necessarily this team (guys who would look good on established teams e.g. Jose, Amir, Andrea, Lowry etc.)

So, would you support management saying, screw this, let's be real bad, let's collect as many assets as we can and fully (for once) commit to this thing. No rush jobs. No excelerating the process. Keeping a coach who will grow with the team (I don't care if it's Casey, if it is, I'd be fine with it). I'd be with o.k. with it. Why? The rot of this team is at its core. Anyone who's been a part of a bad organization in their lives can identify with this. You can be a fine individual, but when you enter into an organization with significant problems (senior management all the way down) you too are affected.

If we're able to completely remove this rot (and it would be painful) then I think we'd finally be turning a page on an approximately 10 year problem.

ZanTheMan 12-14-2012 08:40 AM

Sadly I think this team will never win a championship, no matter how deep this cleanup goes. I'd be fine with a Hawks-like scenario where we would at least get to the playoffs for 5 years and maybe even reach the conference finals. That would be a great start and right now we can't ask for anything more imho.

For every success story like f.e. the Thunder, there are also rebuilding drama's like the Kings, so there are no guarantees. Sucking for too long might even mean the team get's moved to another city...

Plus I don't think I can handle another 5 years of extreme sucking, so I think I'll be a Rockets fan for a while and then check back in after 5 years.

halphbreedballer 12-14-2012 09:28 AM

No to a full rebuild

MrClutch 12-14-2012 09:33 AM

I dont think we need a full rebuild. We have pieces in Davis, Ross, JV, DD and Lowry if he ever stays healthy. We just need to keep our draft picks and draft BPA and then bring in veteran leadership ala Stackhouse or Billups or even Ben Wallace to teach the younger guys what it means to win and were good

MBailey85 12-14-2012 09:36 AM

In general no,its not like they are coming off a few playoff runs but lost key players to free agency,injury or retirement. They have been trying to rebuild for the last 3-4 years now.

Under the Colangelo regime,definitely no. He's had enough time to make this team a playoff competitor but has unfortunately failed in recent years(the East is pretty weak too).

Under a new regime,there's no choice but to give them a chance to correct the previous mistakes and rebuild accurately.

gtanev 12-14-2012 09:42 AM

We played better in a rebuilding year last year than we are now... So maybe a full rebuild isn't such a bad idea.

ejeezy 12-14-2012 10:02 AM

We need a full rebuild, need to draft a superstar. Or else we'll see zero championships in Toronto.

Competing for 7th or 8th is stupid.

LX 12-14-2012 10:06 AM

If I want to see them blow it up real good, then I have to support the rebuild. There are a few players I'd like to see stay, but I have to imagine some of them would need to be used to help clear out the mess.

Most importantly, just lose Colangelo and give me something real.

ERaz 12-14-2012 10:07 AM

What the hell were the last 2 seasons then? Or you mean have to be that bad for 5 years straight kind of rebuild? If the last 2 seasons were not full rebuilding seasons then what were they for?

jeffb 12-14-2012 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERaz (Post 721228)
What the hell were the last 2 seasons then? Or you mean have to be that bad for 5 years straight kind of rebuild? If the last 2 seasons were not full rebuilding seasons then what were they for?

This is how i see it. Aren't we already in a rebuild, at least to some degree. Bosh only left 2.5yrs ago.

LX 12-14-2012 10:14 AM

We haven't done anything other than add a few picks, made a nice acquisition in Lowry, and added a lot of dead wood when we needed to clear out deadwood. Not a great rebuild. No real core in sight to build around.

jeffb 12-14-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 721235)
We haven't done anything other than add a few picks, made a nice acquisition in Lowry, and added a lot of dead wood when we needed to clear out deadwood. Not a great rebuild. No real core in sight to build around.

Three solid draft picks, a lot of short contracts, some vet min players, a key addition in Lowry on a cheap contract. Smells like a rebuild to me. Is it a great one.....meh without a top 3 pick/star player it'll never be a perfect rebuild.

LX 12-14-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 721237)
Three solid draft picks, a lot of short contracts, some vet min players, a key addition in Lowry on a cheap contract. Smells like a rebuild to me. Is it a great one.....meh without a top 3 pick/star player it'll never be a perfect rebuild.

Do you smell a core, or do you smell rot that needs to be moved out and has needed to be moved out for some time now? What is being built upon?

Beans 12-14-2012 10:40 AM

Seems like MLSE might be the root of the rot.

Claudius 12-14-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beans (Post 721255)
Seems like MLSE might be the root of the rot.

Why? Why do we blame organization? From everything we've read they've essentially given the basketball administrators free reign to run this organization (or the basketball operations). Unless MLSE has a culture of no accountability in terms of performance, which may be true.

jeffb 12-14-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 721257)
Why? Why do we blame organization? From everything we've read they've essentially given the basketball administrators free reign to run this organization (or the basketball operations). Unless MLSE has a culture of no accountability in terms of performance, which may be true.

True i suppose, but they own 3 teams and in the last 7yrs the three teams have combined for 2 playoff appearances (Both by the Raptors). You would think that maybe, just maybe they should take some of the blame since they're the ones hiring everyone?

Beans 12-14-2012 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 721259)
True i suppose, but they own 3 teams and in the last 7yrs the three teams have combined for 2 playoff appearances (Both by the Raptors). You would think that maybe, just maybe they should take some of the blame since they're the ones hiring everyone?

It sure looks like a suspicious record of underachievement to me.

Claudius 12-14-2012 10:57 AM

I think with MLSE they're in a poor position simply because, if they fire someone they'll be seen as meddling and if they don't they'll be seen as being laissez faire with their teams.

How many coaches have been fired by TFC? Everyone wanted Burke and they brought him in. How many Raptors coaches have been fired?

They're not dumb, they understand winning creates money and brand prestige (which is critical). Sometimes finding the right people is more difficult than it seems.

bjjs 12-14-2012 11:18 AM

We're already real bad. just put a real team on the floor, I don't care how bad they are. As long as they show some passion and comraderie.

I enjoyed the last game against Brooklyn, moreso when Aaron Gray wasn't on the court.

StartingBench 12-14-2012 11:37 AM

If they do a full rebuild, I'm not watching for 1-2 years. I've just had enough of it at this point. I'll find something else to do with my time.


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