Which would make the biggest difference this season. - Page 3

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View Poll Results: Which would have the biggest impact on our W column.
Fire BC 11 17.19%
Fire Casey 7 10.94%
Get rid of Bargs 36 56.25%
Other 10 15.63%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-26-2012, 11:49 AM   #41 (permalink)
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He's not an all-star TALENT. Are you for real? If Bargs played with hustle and heart he'd be a top 5 player in the league. His skill set is insane for a 7fter. Have you seen his dribble drive? It's immense.

That's a massive IF. And the rest of that statement is simply laughable.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:51 AM   #42 (permalink)
is.....

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We need to trade barges and Calderon for ANYTHING! Even just bringing back picks would have a positive impact on the way we play. Bargs just flat out sucks and ED is really looking like he is pushing hard to get more minutes, Calderon is such a defensive liability that any positive impact he has on the offensive end, is completely lost once he plays D. we need to find a decent back up point guard (JJ levels) and then replace Bargs with ED.....team solved. Games Won.

Last edited by m5racer; 11-26-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:55 AM   #43 (permalink)
is.....

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Originally Posted by ollyaaa View Post
He's not an all-star TALENT. Are you for real? If Bargs played with hustle and heart he'd be a top 5 player in the league. His skill set is insane for a 7fter. Have you seen his dribble drive? It's immense.
Dude, its been like 7 years. Were still saying the same old shit, if this guy could play with heart.....if only he hustled.......OH Just IMAGINE!


Its obviously obvious that Bargs is not capable of being a high level tallent in the league. He got paid, and figured im good the way I am. He will NEVER play with hustle and heart because either he cant or he DOES NOT CARE!

He has to go asap
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:56 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ollyaaa View Post
Ha ha. Everyone accusing me of being BC. Hilarious...


Sorry but if you can't see the potential Bargs has as a player in the league you've been blinded by hate.

IF my employer never EVER checked the quality of my work, and I knew no matter how well I performed I'd continue with the same job role and pay I'd start to slack.

It's known as human nature.
If he's in his 7th year still banking on "potential" then maybe you're blind to see that he's just a "shoulda,woulda,coulda!"

As far as the employer analogy goes, if your employer put his credibility and reputation on the line by hiring you to become the future and face of his company, then you better have some heart and a pair,doing your best to make him look good! If you slack then your just a bum who deserves to have your spot taken by someone who's up for the challenge.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:56 AM   #45 (permalink)
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If Bargnani needs motivation to play hard, he shouldn't be a professional athlete. It's nothing like DD at all so don't compare the two.
Why shouldn't he? Where does it say in his contract with the raps that he has to love and cherish every moment of his career. Has it occurred to you the Italian Bargs might actually be playing for the Canadian Raps for financial gain? Probably not.

You guys seem to think being an NBA is different to other jobs. It isn't. Sometimes its just work. Something you do for money. It's up to the employer to ensure their workforce stays motivated. This set up is almost the norm for every career in every workplace in the world.


ALSO - Demars transition from being a rookie to an NBA starter with a large contact has been almost identical to Bargs. Gifted started role, never lost it despite inconsistent production, rewarded a large contract a few seasons later. I'm not saying they're the same in terms of their commitment to the game and effort levels but facts are facts. Try and read what people are implying in their posts before you come back with nonsense like that.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:02 PM   #46 (permalink)
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That's a massive IF. And the rest of that statement is simply laughable.
~OF course its a massive IF. I'm not denying that. I happen to think it'd be less of an 'IF' if he was around a different coach and players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5racer View Post
Dude, its been like 7 years. Were still saying the same old shit, if this guy could play with heart.....if only he hustled.......OH Just IMAGINE!


Its obviously obvious that Bargs is not capable of being a high level tallent in the league. He got paid, and figured im good the way I am. He will NEVER play with hustle and heart because either he cant or he DOES NOT CARE!

He has to go asap
I'm not denying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
If he's in his 7th year still banking on "potential" then maybe you're blind to see that he's just a "shoulda,woulda,coulda!"

As far as the employer analogy goes, if your employer put his credibility and reputation on the line by hiring you to become the future and face of his company, then you better have some heart and a pair,doing your best to make him look good! If you slack then your just a bum who deserves to have your spot taken by someone who's up for the challenge.
If the employer realised I was a useless bum who was slacking, you'd expect them to take measures to correct their mistake. Casey has done the opposite by promising him starter minutes for the rest of the season.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Not only has Casey failed to provide the team with the ethos of accountability and hard work, now he's shown he's probably the worst offensive head coach in the league and his rotations are absolutely abysmal.

How disheartening must it be for Ed to hear his minutes will not change this season regardless of how much effort he puts in and how well he performs on the court?!?! W.T.F
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I happen to think it'd be less of an 'IF' if he was around a different coach and players.
Bullshit! He had no problem playing better last season under Casey. At least to start the season. It's always about someone else when it comes to this guy. All the excuses in world doesn't change the fact that he's been inconsistent his whole career.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:08 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I know I've been overly critical of Bargnani and his fans and I'll admit that.

That said, people like ollyaa are part of the reason Bargnani is so polarizing and frustrating. The ridiculous excuses they come up with to excuse away or explain Bargnani's subpar play are literally infuriating. They said it was Bosh holding him back. Then it was Sam Mitchell. Then it was he was out of position at SF. Then it was out of position at C. Then it was Jay Triano. Then it was teammates taking his rebounds. Then it was he's not motivated enough because the Raptors are bad. Then it was he doesn't have a superstar like Kobe to motivate him. I've heard some of his fans say it's because he's Italian and Italians don't try hard in general.

ollyaa, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying it's up to the Raptors to motivate Bargnani. Any professional athlete who can't self-motivate to win games is a piece of shit and shouldn't be playing professional sports. That's on Bargnani, not the Raptors.

edit: The big difference with the Lakers or Spurs for instance is they would bench Bargnani and keep him benched for playing like garbage. They wouldn't feel obligated to play him 40 minutes per game when he isn't giving 100% effort. He'd either a) get the picture and play better or b) sulk and become a bench big man for the rest of his career.

Last edited by FLO; 11-26-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:14 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I'll still maintain that the hate for Jose is a little misplaced.

He's still a good backup PG. One of the best ones in the league IMO.... He just shouldn't be playing the 2 spot, he shouldn't be playing in the closing moments of games, and he shouldn't be playing more than 20-25 min/gm.

Another classic Raptors case of expecting WAY too much out of guy who's role should really be smaller than it is.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:16 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FLO View Post
ollyaa, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying it's up to the Raptors to motivate Bargnani. Any professional athlete who can't self-motivate to win games is a piece of shit and shouldn't be playing professional sports. That's on Bargnani, not the Raptors.
FLO here is where you misunderstand. I haven't said Bargs is in the right here. I AGREE that it's excuse after excuse and he's a slacker.

Of course people who can't self-motivate to be the BEST (an insane amount of work) should be playing professional sports. But thats some idealistic dream world that doesnt exist.

I live in the real world. Were people take what they can get and give back minimum effort for the most part.

This is clearly the case with Bargs, and despite that we still commit to him and back him financially and publicly. Becuase of this it's down to the Raps organisation to ensure they get maximum production from him by using the correct motivational triggers (benching him, kicking his ass in practice, not promising him full mins all season regardless of production). Thus far the Raps haven't done ANYTHING in the last 3-4 season to get that right.

It's like ordering a lasagne at a restaurant then complaining you don't like pasta..... And then ordering another one as a replacement.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FLO View Post
edit: The big difference with the Lakers or Spurs for instance is they would bench Bargnani and keep him benched for playing like garbage. They wouldn't feel obligated to play him 40 minutes per game when he isn't giving 100% effort. He'd either a) get the picture and play better or b) sulk and become a bench big man for the rest of his career.
Exactly.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #53 (permalink)
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FLO here is where you misunderstand. I haven't said Bargs is in the right here. I AGREE that it's excuse after excuse and he's a slacker.

Of course people who can't self-motivate to be the BEST (an insane amount of work) should be playing professional sports. But thats some idealistic dream world that doesnt exist.

I live in the real world. Were people take what they can get and give back minimum effort for the most part.

This is clearly the case with Bargs, and despite that we still commit to him and back him financially and publicly. Becuase of this it's down to the Raps organisation to ensure they get maximum production from him by using the correct motivational triggers (benching him, kicking his ass in practice, not promising him full mins all season regardless of production). Thus far the Raps haven't done ANYTHING in the last 3-4 season to get that right.

It's like ordering a lasagne at a restaurant then complaining you don't like pasta..... And then ordering another one as a replacement.
I can understand that... and honestly, I think you're right in this case.

Bargs has likely regressed because his minutes have been all but guaranteed over the past few seasons.

Until that changes I doubt he'll EVER get better.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #54 (permalink)
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In the time he's been here, everything has been tried. True - he hasn't been held accountable all that much, but when he has it hasn't worked. I'd still like to see him take on a sixth man role. If he has any kind of future in this league, that's going to be the role he needs to accept.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:25 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I don't think moving him to 6th man will make a difference. In fact, it might give him even less incentive to rebound, play D, etc. It's just time to cut our losses and move on.

edit: ollyaaa I see where you're coming from and I agree with a lot of it now.

Last edited by FLO; 11-26-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #56 (permalink)
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luck

we've played like a .500 team this season but we've been extremely unlucky, from the FTs missed in Philly, to the refs making mistakes in crucial moments, to guys making improbable shots and finally to key players having horrible games (bargnani on sunday, derozan and lowry in detroit etc). About the only lucky thing that happened to us was Inidiana missing 4 shots in 15 seconds.

Eventually our luck will turn and our record will improve. I just hope not too much damage was done already, although looking at the standings, we're not that far behind. If we could maintain a 5 game margin to the 8th spot at the end of December, between the much easier schedule and the hopefully better luck, we'll have a shot I think.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:08 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Get rid of Bargs!
as for BC anyone know better options available? maybe we should call Dr. J
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:10 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FLO View Post
I don't think moving him to 6th man will make a difference. In fact, it might give him even less incentive to rebound, play D, etc. It's just time to cut our losses and move on.

edit: ollyaaa I see where you're coming from and I agree with a lot of it now.
I'm all for moving on, but he's still 6th man material for any other team. It's very odd that he hasn't been given that role here.

He does like minutes, and he could be promised to finish games with good signs of defending and rebounding. If he doesn't, then the team gets the benefit of his offense without paying such a high price for it.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I don't know why I voted for getting rid of Bargs when clearly McGuire, Fields and Kleiza have to scoop their poop together and be useful on both ends, and the sooner the better.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:55 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I don't know why I voted for getting rid of Bargs when clearly McGuire, Fields and Kleiza have to scoop their poop together and be useful on both ends, and the sooner the better.
those 3 are not the focal points of your offense and transition defense. Bargs is the anchor and its time to cut the chain... I do not know if we can get value for him, probably not...As Il Muggo performs so goes the Raps

I can stand the nights when he sucks shooting but I can not abide most games is his trailing the play, movement to the help side and lack of presence at the rim to grab defensive rebounds or to block out someone...he is the most frustrating player in NBA to watch...
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